"Okay, I believe in a higher power(s) now...."

[MrsFoundit]

So where is your standard of evidence and how low is it relative to your personal beliefs rather than others?

Do you have a standard of evidence for your personal mind reading skills?

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Do you have a standard of evidence for your personal mind reading skills?

If you can't answer the question, just say so politely. Please be reminded of the forum rules.

 

[NBB]

You attribute things to a God doing them for your benefit and testify as such, that's not rational, that's credulous, based purely on your faulty reasoning and inference about the cause behind an event that you fallaciously correlate rather than actually are able to demonstrate the link.

How is it rational to do what is rationalizing rather than striving for objectivity? Considering that your attribution of a God to events might be mistaken seems far more honest intellectually than just saying it "seems" reasonable to you as the individual who holds the beliefs because of subjective and personal experience.

And your testimony is vastly insufficient to others because it amounts to someone saying, "I was abducted by aliens/saw fairies/saw a ghost" and yet I'm pretty sure you're not going to believe someone based on their testimony of those things, or even someone's testimony regarding a religious experience that doesn't align with your religious worldview of Christianity in particular. So where is your standard of evidence and how low is it relative to your personal beliefs rather than others?

And why you assume things about what i have experienced and about me, you don't know, actually i'm very strict to what i say came from God or not, you have no idea what i have experienced.

 

[muichimotsu]

Erm, yes, that would be why there is no "opposing God" in a Christian worldview. It is either of God, or it is not God.

But there are opposing gods nonetheless, even if they aren't supposedly the one God. You don't seem to understand the henotheistic implications, where you acknowledge other deities exist, but put your particular deity on a pedestal with little to no justification

 

[muichimotsu]

Do you have a standard of evidence for your personal mind reading skills?

I'm not claiming to know the certainty of your belief or the situation that supposedly motivated you, but that doesn't mean I cannot make provisional speculations

 

[muichimotsu]

And why you assume things about what i have experienced and about me, you don't know, actually i'm very strict to what i say came from God or not, you have no idea what i have experienced.

And yet I also have no reason to take your experiences as true in whatever you conclude about them when you're likely attributing it to a God when it isn't necessary to do so except by an argument from ignorance fallacy. Just because you cannot find an explanation otherwise is not a justification to conclude it must be God, no matter how "strict" you claim to be on it.

It gets into the broader problem of even prayer, since the general idea is that you can justify God "answering" the prayer even if that answer happens to be no and God is still given credit as sovereign and such regardless of the outcome

 

[NBB]

And yet I also have no reason to take your experiences as true in whatever you conclude about them when you're likely attributing it to a God when it isn't necessary to do so except by an argument from ignorance fallacy. Just because you cannot find an explanation otherwise is not a justification to conclude it must be God, no matter how "strict" you claim to be on it.

It gets into the broader problem of even prayer, since the general idea is that you can justify God "answering" the prayer even if that answer happens to be no and God is still given credit as sovereign and such regardless of the outcome

But you sound very 'silly' when: you don't know what i have experienced, and 2: There is compelling reason to believe in God, just look at the universe, and he actually manifests himself to people myself included.

 

[muichimotsu]

But you sound very 'silly' when: you don't know what i have experienced, and 2: There is compelling reason to believe in God, just look at the universe, and he actually manifests himself to people myself included.

I didn't claim to know specifically what you had experienced, but I can reasonably deduce that you're speaking about things you'd attribute to God in a way that you think is conclusive.

There is only compelling reason to believe based on weak standards of evidence in the first place, one doesn't choose to believe or disbelieve, they choose how strict their requirements are for what to believe in the first place.

The universe is not something indicating a god to me, that's one of the most tired cliches of apologetics around. And the personal testimony angle is even less convincing, because, again, you seem to selectively ignore my other examples of supernatural or otherwise bizarre phenomena and think that testimony of God is just convincing on its face or because of numbers (among other rationalizations for why believing in aliens or fairies or ghosts is not justified even if we have a similar number of testimonies)

 

[NBB]

I didn't claim to know specifically what you had experienced, but I can reasonably deduce that you're speaking about things you'd attribute to God in a way that you think is conclusive.

There is only compelling reason to believe based on weak standards of evidence in the first place, one doesn't choose to believe or disbelieve, they choose how strict their requirements are for what to believe in the first place.

The universe is not something indicating a god to me, that's one of the most tired cliches of apologetics around. And the personal testimony angle is even less convincing, because, again, you seem to selectively ignore my other examples of supernatural or otherwise bizarre phenomena and think that testimony of God is just convincing on its face or because of numbers (among other rationalizations for why believing in aliens or fairies or ghosts is not justified even if we have a similar number of testimonies)

I don't think is tired cliche about the universe, a person before getting 'spammed' with information from this world, can conclude pèrfectly that there is something special about the universe.

But you are set up in your belief or unbelief, and you are convinced God doesn't exists it seems. But i have high standards, is a worst 'cliche' saying christians have low standards about truth, that that is why they accept 'less' for evidence, when God actually manifested to a lot of them. And this is not just a one time thing God can do something new at any time in our lives.

 

[muichimotsu]

I don't think is tired cliche about the universe, a person before getting 'spammed' with information from this world, can conclude pèrfectly that there is something special about the universe.

But you are set up in your belief or unbelief, and you are convinced God doesn't exists it seems. But i have high standards, is a worst 'cliche' saying christians have low standards about truth, that that is why they accept 'less' for evidence, when God actually manifested to a lot of them. And this is not just a one time thing God can do something new at any time in our lives.

The universe being amazing does not mean it is special, we don't have another universe to compare it to.

No, we don't have a default state, we are convinced based on what kind of standard we have for what to believe or disbelieve, it's not that simple. I'm not convinced God doesn't exist, I'm merely not convinced by any arguments put forward about this God, but I also don't regard the concept as coherent or cogent in the first place

What they believe to be God is not something they can remotely demonstrate, that's the problem. You can use your god as a placeholder for anything you don't understand and that's where the low standards are, because the mere mysterious nature of something is not a reason to conclude somthing even more mysterious is behind it, that's ignotum per ignotius to a tee

 

[dlamberth]

(or panentheist, in my case)

You caused a grin to cross my face.

 

[dlamberth]

But if course my personal experience wouldn't be sufficient evidence for anyone else. So what?

Exactly! That's how it is with any relationship with the Divine.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Exactly! That's how it is with any relationship with the Divine.

Exactly!
Therefore, there is no way to argue that God exists.

 

[dlamberth]

Exactly!
Therefore, there is no way to argue that God exists.

OR...that God doesn't exist.
Actually I think the argument either way is pretty stupid.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

OR...that God doesn't exist.
Actually I think the argument either way is pretty stupid.

Are you sure you're in the right forum, dlamberth?
Debating the existence of God is what this place is for.

 

[MrsFoundit]

But there are opposing gods nonetheless, even if they aren't supposedly the one God. You don't seem to understand the henotheistic implications, where you acknowledge other deities exist, but put your particular deity on a pedestal with little to no justification

I do not acknowledge other deities exist.

Your personal interpretation of the Bible is irrelevant. The CF Statement of Faith does not acknowledge more than one God.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

I do not acknowledge other deities exist.
Your personal interpretation of the Bible is irrelevant. The CF Statement of Faith does not acknowledge more than one God.

I'm counting two mistakes there.

 

[MrsFoundit]

What they believe to be God is not something they can remotely demonstrate, that's the problem. You can use your god as a placeholder for anything you don't understand and that where the low standards are, because the mere mysterious nature of something is not a reason to conclude somthing even more mysterious is behind it, that's ignotum per ignotius to a tee

So you can demonstrate your ability to make "provisional speculations", as you do here, but can you support this assertion with anything at all?

 

[MrsFoundit]

And the personal testimony angle is even less convincing, because, again,

"Neither one person's opinion nor the popularity of an opinion is a reflection of how good the evidence is." Quoting myself from post 203.

you seem to selectively ignore my other examples of supernatural or otherwise bizarre phenomena and think that testimony of God is just convincing on its face or because of numbers (among other rationalizations for why believing in aliens or fairies or ghosts is not justified even if we have a similar number of testimonies)

"Do I believe other spirits exist? Yes. Do I believe they are all of God? No." Quoting myself from post 17.

 

[MrsFoundit]

If you can't answer the question, just say so politely. Please be reminded of the forum rules.

There was no question addressed to me.