pastor regrets not assaulting John Bolton

[FireDragon76]

I see, Fire Dragon is going way back to dig up his dirt. Glad my past behavior has been forgiven. Seems some Christians here are showing all their colors in these Trump threads

And what is that recent Toxic behavior to which you refer?

Thanks for the info.

I amt a former Christian and I don't recall ever being taught that forgiveness means that character doesn't matter. If that's what your church is teaching you, it's doing you and others a real disservice.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Not by you, I assume.

By anyone?

 

[Kenny'sID]

That's not a fair perspective on my views. I looked at the evidence and that's my conclusion. Nothing else in my mind explains the plurality of religious experiences. It is, rather, theists who have made up a pretend God.

I'm not saying it is, I'm asking. I guess I'm trying to find out if you go by the Bible because it seems to me you are telling me you make things up as you go along, and it's all a matter of what is convenience to you.

Still no answer to the question, so do I take it you don't forgive Trump? Or is forgiveness not in your religion? You really are making it impossible to know just what you think when it comes to God...you are all over the place, the very reason I think it's all a matter of that convenience I mentioned

 

[Kenny'sID]

I amt a former Christian

Ok, that explains everything. I expect nothing like forgiveness from you then...thanks for cleaning that up.

 

[Kenny'sID]

By anyone?

Why ask me, ask "anyone"...my crystal ball is only so effective

 

[FireDragon76]

I'm not saying it is, I'm asking. I guess I'm trying to find out if you go by the Bible because it seems to me you are telling me you make things up as you go along, and it's all a matter of what is convenience to you.

That's a false dichotomy. Just because the Bible isn't my claimed religious authority doesn't mean I "make things up to suit me" anymore than a Christian with a Bible does.

Still no answer to the question, so do I take it you don't forgive Trump?

It would be unwise to discount Trump's repeated behavior of abuse, especially as there has been no admission of wrongdoing or attempt to ammend his ways.

Or is forgiveness not in your religion?

I am not a doormat that has to passively acquiesce to oppression. If your church teaches this, it's doing you a disservice.

You really are making it impossible to know just what you think when it comes to God...you are all over the place

I doubt you would understand my religious views. Not all religious perspectives fit into the materialist atheist or Christian theist dichotomy you seem to think is the default. I accept there is a certain reality to God, however, God is not the ultimate reality, nor is your concept of God worthy of my devotion. I count as spiritual teachers people who genuinely make the world a better place, not authoritarians who attempt to scare me or other people through tactics rooted in fear.

 

[GACfan]

I can remember Arlen Specter and other Republicans that weren't in the pocket of the Christian Right, but that was over a generation ago. John McCain was probably the last of those sorts of Republicans.

We know what Trump, the draft dodger with bone spurs, thinks of McCain... "He’s not a war hero. He’s a ‘war hero’ because he was captured. I like people that weren’t captured, okay? I hate to tell you.”

 

[FireDragon76]

Unfortunately, it's also becoming more powerful.

Yeah, that's a real problem.

Fortunately, we can take some comfort from history. Before movements die, they typically undergo a sort of false renaissance, an attempt to repristinate their past. Evangelicals know their influence is declining, that their young people are leaving their churches, so they are doubling down on their draconian attitudes and are falling prey to unpricipled demagogues like Trump who promise them security, if only they trust in him.

 

[FireDragon76]

We know what Trump, the draft dodger with bone spurs, thinks of McCain... "He’s not a war hero. He’s a ‘war hero’ because he was captured. I like people that weren’t captured, okay? I hate to tell you.”

That's just asinine logic.

I'm pretty sure that North Vietnamese air defense systems aren't respecters of persons.

 

[Kenny'sID]

That's a false dichotomy. Just because the Bible isn't my claimed religious authority doesn't mean I "make things up to suit me" anymore than a Christian with a Bible does.



It would be unwise to discount Trump's repeated behavior of abuse, especially as there has been no admission of wrongdoing or attempt to ammend his ways.



I am not a doormat that has to passively acquiesce to oppression. If your church teaches this, it's doing you a disservice.



I doubt you would understand my religious views. Not all religious perspectives fit into the materialist atheist or Christian theist dichotomy you seem to think is the default. I accept there is a certain reality to God, however, God is not the ultimate reality, nor is your concept of God worthy of my devotion. I count as spiritual teachers people who genuinely make the world a better place, not authoritarians who attempt to scare me or other people through tactics rooted in fear.

As I said, there it no possible way I could understand them. As i also said you are all over the place and you make things up as you go along, so how could anyone keep up with that....they can't.

Christianity has an orderly set of rules where we know within reason where others are coming from, but what you have is chaos. I've always been able to tell you make up your replies on the spot, and that there is nothing definite you go by, so, again, no, I can't possibly understand, who could?

 

[FireDragon76]

As I said, were it no possible way I could understand them. As i also said you are all over the place and you make things up as you go along, so how could anyone keep up with that....they can't.

Christianity has an orderly set of rules where we know within reason where others are coming from, but what you have is chaos. I've always been able to tell you make up your replies on the spot, and that there is nothing definite you go by, so, again, no, I can't possibly understand, who could?

Your religion has an "ordered set of rules", appealing to people with an authoritarian, primitive, fear-based mindset. That is why I am unpersuaded by such claims.

I reject the notion that assumed authority, ergo power, has anything to do with spirituality. Legitimate spiritual teachers do not have to threaten or manipulate others, their life is their lesson.

I do not have chaos in my life. I do not have all the answers, but I know that fundamentally life is interconnected, and living in harmony with that reality leads to far more happiness and purposeful living than clinging to egotism and fear. Do I claim to have perfected this? No. But I have tasted its truth. So I reject the notion that all I have is "chaos". I have confidence that at least I am on the path of virtue.

 

[GACfan]

Yeah, that's a real problem.

Fortunately, we can take some comfort from history. Before movements die, they typically undergo a sort of false renaissance, an attempt to repristinate their past. Evangelicals know their influence is declining, that their young people are leaving their churches, so they are doubling down on their draconian attitudes and are falling prey to unpricipled demagogues like Trump who promise them security, if only they trust in him.

The reasons you mentioned in your post aren't the only reasons why conservatives support Trump, as demonstrated in this psychological study: An Analysis of Trump Supporters Has Identified 5 Key Traits and these other studies have demonstrated another reason why many conservatives flock to Trump.

Psychology Today: Becoming a Minority Fuels Conservatism

White fear of demographic change is a powerful psychological force

PNAS: Status threat, not economic hardship, explains the 2016 presidential vote

Trump Voters Driven by Fear of Losing Status, Not Economic Anxiety, Study Finds

 

[FireDragon76]

The reasons you mentioned in your post aren't the only reasons why conservatives support Trump, as demonstrated in this psychological study: An Analysis of Trump Supporters Has Identified 5 Key Traits and these other studies have demonstrated another reason why many conservatives have flocked to Trump.

Psychology Today: Becoming a Minority Fuels Conservatism

White fear of demographic change is a powerful psychological force

PNAS: Status threat, not economic hardship, explains the 2016 presidential vote

Trump Voters Driven by Fear of Losing Status, Not Economic Anxiety, Study Finds

That's true. Religion is only a small part of the matrix. But it's part of it. Part of that status anxiety is that evangelical/fundamentalist Protestantism, or even Christianity in general, isn't the default choice for many Americans. The more these guys attempt to seize power, the more spiritually irrelevant they become. That must be very frustrating.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Your religion has an "ordered set of rules", appealing to people with an authoritarian, primitive, fear-based mindset. That is why I am unpersuaded by such claims.

I reject the notion that assumed authority, ergo power, has anything to do with spirituality. Legitimate spiritual teachers do not have to threaten or manipulate others, their life is their lesson.

Listen man, you can blame it all on bad people if you want, but I'd say that's just a cop out. Forget those manipulators then and get over it. You know as well as I do that the true God/God of the Bible is fear based as well, yet you try to blame that on people. What a tangled mess you weave to keep yourself lost in. Constant excuses that allow you to do as you wish but still pretend some semblance of knowing God, but only as you have made him out to be, hence a pretend hope of heaven.

Chaos.

And then get angry with others when they tell you the truth....geeze

 

[FireDragon76]

Listen man, you can blame it all on bad people if you want, but I'd say that's just a cop out. Forget those manipulators then and get over it. You know as well as I do that the true God/God of the Bible is fear based as well, yet you try to blame that on people. What a tangled mess you weave to keep yourself lost in. Constant excuses that allow you to do as you wish but still pretend some semblance of knowing God, but only as you have made him out to be, hence a pretend hope of heaven.

Chaos.

And then get angry with others when they tell you the truth....geeze

What makes you think I have a "hope of heaven"? Again, you need to take the Evangelical Christian blinders off if you want to understand me. I do not believe in subjective immortality in the usual sense. If we are lucky, our energy returns to the ground of reality, we become one with everything. If we are unlucky, our mental fetters and attachments will propel our consciousness into not so nice places, realms of consciousness where there is more pain and suffering.

 

[GACfan]

Your religion has an "ordered set of rules", appealing to people with an authoritarian, primitive, fear-based mindset. That is why I am unpersuaded by such claims.

I reject the notion that assumed authority, ergo power, has anything to do with spirituality. Legitimate spiritual teachers do not have to threaten or manipulate others, their life is their lesson.

I do not have chaos in my life. I do not have all the answers, but I know that fundamentally life is interconnected, and living in harmony with that reality leads to far more happiness and purposeful living than clinging to egotism and fear. Do I claim to have perfected this? No. But I have tasted its truth. So I reject the notion that all I have is "chaos". I have confidence that at least I am on the path of virtue.

The interactions you're having here reminds me of the time a conservative Christian who tried to give me a similar lecture IRL about my personal beliefs. I turned the tables on her. Long story short, I told her off because she supports and defends Trump. Fortunately, I haven't heard from her since then.

 

[Kenny'sID]

What makes you think I have a "hope of heaven"? Again, you need to take the Evangelical Christian blinders off if you want to understand me. I do not believe in subjective immortality in the usual sense. If we are lucky, our energy returns to the ground of reality, we become one with everything. If we are unlucky, our mental fetters and attachments will propel our consciousness into not so nice places, realms of consciousness where there is more pain and suffering.

Again, you aren't giving me anything to understand you with.

So, no heaven for you?

 

[FireDragon76]

Again, you aren't giving me anything to understand you with.

So, no heaven for you?

People might have subjective experiences like that after death, but they are not ultimately real.

 

[Kenny'sID]

People might have subjective experiences like that after death, but they are not ultimately real.

And you are an authority on the matter? If you aren't a bible believer, something that I now understand you are not, now then of course there is no heaven. It's easier to see it that way than to see the truth that it IS there but some choose not to attain it.

Think I'll believe the bible over you.

 

[FireDragon76]

And you are an authority on the matter? If you aren't a bible believer, something that I now understand you are not, now then of course there is no heaven. It's easier to see it that way than to see the truth that it IS there but some choose not to attain it.

Think I'll believe the bible over you.

I'm just explaining what I believe. It's fairly evident you are attached to biblical fundamentalism.