How to prove that GOD exists from a scientific point of view?

[dad]

In our society it would be rape, and that's not really anything to be proud of.

My society is the kingdom of heaven. In a fallen world run by wicked people and demons things that are holy and pure are deemed evil. No news here.

 

[dad]

And Aurelius foretold that five will die, and the Anointed One would rise form their ashes, and he would lead the Slayer into Hell. And sure enough, that happened. I saw it happen. Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 1, episode 5, "Never Kill a Boy on the First Date." So, that's evidence that Buffy is real.

So you try to equate God's word and the salvation of man to cheap theatre. Whatever.

 

[dad]

But when you see some piece of text, how do you tell if it really is God breathed and not just something that you have been told is God breathed?

Lots of ways. So if you see a record preserved by Israel over thousands of years that contain many characters, how do you decide to wave them all away as fiction? If you see fulfilled prophesy such as that Isreal went into captivity 70 years, how do you wave that away as a story? When you hear Jesus healed tens of thousands of people and appeared to over 500 after He rose from the dead, how do you pretend that was not of God? When you read the record of people that knew Him like John and the apostles, how do you make a claim that is not a good true record? If millions of people have their lives changed drastically by Jesus from having read about Him in the bible, how do you claim it is not from God?

 

[dad]

Yet it doesn't appear such claims can be tested to rule that out, thus here we are.

Those who have tested them disagree. There you are.

 

[Kylie]

So you try to equate God's word and the salvation of man to cheap theatre. Whatever.

You are just claiming that it is God's word. I am asking you to prove that it is what you say it is. Because if it isn't, then it's just another story.

 

[pitabread]

Those who have tested them disagree.

So what?

We can't verify any of that according to you. Which is the whole point. This is just going in circles now.

You either need to demonstrate a methodology by which we can determine the veracity of those Bible stories, or you're stuck with a bunch of unsupported assertions about those stories.

Given your track record so far, the latter is all you've got.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

My society is the kingdom of heaven. In a fallen world run by wicked people and demons things that are holy and pure are deemed evil. No news here.

Are you saying rape is holy? That's an interesting defence!

 

[Kylie]

Lots of ways. So if you see a record preserved by Israel over thousands of years that contain many characters, how do you decide to wave them all away as fiction?

The fact that stories are old does not make them true. The fact that stories have lots of characters does not make them true.

If you see fulfilled prophesy such as that Isreal went into captivity 70 years, how do you wave that away as a story?

Now, come on,m we've been over this before, haven't we? There are many reasons why we can't trust these old prophecies.

• Prophecies can be vague and interpreted to mean anything.
• Prophecies can be added to older sources AFTER the events that allegedly fulfil them.
• The events that allegedly fulfill the prophecy may be invented to make it look like the prophecy was fulfilled.

When you hear Jesus healed tens of thousands of people and appeared to over 500 after He rose from the dead, how do you pretend that was not of God?

When you hear Luke Skywalker used the Force to defeat Kylo's army, how do you pretend that was not of the Force?

The fact stories describe amazing events does not make them true.

When you read the record of people that knew Him like John and the apostles, how do you make a claim that is not a good true record?

The fact that a text is attributed to a person who was involved does not make the story true. If I tell you a story starting with, "This is a true story, and I know because I was there," would you be convinced it is true?

If millions of people have their lives changed drastically by Jesus from having read about Him in the bible, how do you claim it is not from God?

The fact that lots of people are influenced by a story does not make the story true. Lots of people have been influenced by Star Trek, Harry Potter, The Lord of the Rings, etc, and that doesn't make those stories true.

 

[Kylie]

Those who have tested them disagree. There you are.

Then why are there so many variations of religion? Can't they get consistent results from their tests? And if they can't get consistent results, how do we know ANY of the results are valid?

 

[dad]

You are just claiming that it is God's word. I am asking you to prove that it is what you say it is. Because if it isn't, then it's just another story.

It was proven in the ways already mentioned. Prophecy, miracles, Ressurection, working in people's lives.

 

[dad]

So what?

We can't verify any of that according to you.

Yes, that is done and has been done. In the test tubes of people. You cannot question the record of Scripture. As mentioned, who are you to say Jesus never came or Mary never did what was said?

Mary verified that the angel was there, she saw him. She later saw the stomach getting big. She later saw her son risen from the dead etc.

 

[dad]

Are you saying rape is holy? That's an interesting defence!

Mary had nothing to do with that.

 

[dad]

The fact that stories are old does not make them true. The fact that stories have lots of characters does not make them true.

Doubts based on nothing do not negate God's word and record.

Now, come on,m we've been over this before, haven't we? There are many reasons why we can't trust these old prophecies.

• Prophecies can be vague and interpreted to mean anything.

They are detailed.

• Prophecies can be added to older sources AFTER the events that allegedly fulfil them.

Scripture was not such a record. Scribes carefully passed down the words.

• The events that allegedly fulfill the prophecy may be invented to make it look like the prophecy was fulfilled.

  Not in Scripture.

The fact stories describe amazing events does not make them true.

The fact that you doubt for zero reason does not make your doubts worth anything.

The fact that lots of people are influenced by a story does not make the story true

Not just influenced. Changed completely. Born again.

 

[pitabread]

You cannot question the record of Scripture.

Sure I can. I just did.

 

[dad]

Then why are there so many variations of religion? Can't they get consistent results from their tests? And if they can't get consistent results, how do we know ANY of the results are valid?

Sure! Demons spirits can cause effects also.

 

[dad]

Sure I can. I just did.

You cannot do it with evidence. Doubts have no value.

 

[Strathos]

So you try to equate God's word and the salvation of man to cheap theatre. Whatever.

To these atheists that's all it is. You're not going to convince them, only a personal experience with God will do that.

 

[dad]

To these atheists that's all it is. You're not going to convince them, only a personal experience with God will do that.

I am endeavoring to tell the truth so that readers can have light shed on things. The idea here is not to convince deniers and rejectors. One can only hope God will reach them somehow.

Nor do I take the route of some christians here, and embrace whatever fable or story (like TOE) that unbelievers put out in some supposed attempt to 'win' them. Not standing up for truth alienates most people and sickens them. One example of this would be agreeing with murdering babies, and making out that this is a godly position. It seems to me as another example, that if I were in the US, and a democrat, I would have to renounce abortion and other vile things that the party stands for.

I try to address ideas, not people.

 

[Kylie]

It was proven in the ways already mentioned. Prophecy, miracles, Ressurection, working in people's lives.

And I've told you why those things aren't valid evidence.

Prophecy isn't reliable - it could have been made after the fact, it may have been vague and thuis fit lots of things, and the events which fulfilled it may not have actually happened. Miracles aren't valid because there's no way to eliminate all other causes. Resurrection is a story with no testable evidence. And lots of ideas work in people's lives, that doesn't mean it is true.

Learn what evidence actually is, then come back to me when you have some.

 

[Kylie]

Doubts based on nothing do not negate God's word and record.

Not based on nothing, based on the fact there's no way to check it.

They are detailed.

Not all of them.

Scripture was not such a record. Scribes carefully passed down the words.

How do you know? We have no original copies of the texts, how can you claim they are unchanged from the much later versions we do have?

Not in Scripture.

Yeah, you claiming something doesn't make it evidence.

The fact that you doubt for zero reason does not make your doubts worth anything.

You're going to need more than dismissal and opinion to be convincing.

Not just influenced. Changed completely. Born again.

And yet when the same thing happens to convince people to convert to Islam, all of a sudden it isn't valid, is it? Or do you think that being influenced, changed completely and born again as a Muslim is evidence the Koran is true?