The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[bobsmename]

In post #259, you said,

"So you claim not to invite friends or family home for a meal but rather the poor, lame, blind and beggars so you may receive your reward in Heaven for doing so?
If someone stole something of yours, you would gladly give them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?
You truly in your heart love all your enemies, without slip, those who may persecute you, lie ab out you, or be unkind to you in anyway?
You leap for joy if you are persecuted?
If you have ever fasted you have not so much as hinted to anyone you are fasting?
If anyone wanted to borrow from you, you would give to them without ever expecting anything back?" ~ Quote by: Bobsmename.​

These questions cast doubt on in that we cannot obey the words of Jesus.

Those questions simply prove that you yourself do not even try and obey all of Christ's commands, whilst at the same time stating your righteousness hinges on obeying them. This is always the way it is with those who claim, or insinuate you have righteousness of obeying the law. It was the same 2000 years ago as it is today

 

[Neogaia777]

In post #259, you said,

"So you claim not to invite friends or family home for a meal but rather the poor, lame, blind and beggars so you may receive your reward in Heaven for doing so?
If someone stole something of yours, you would gladly give them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?
You truly in your heart love all your enemies, without slip, those who may persecute you, lie ab out you, or be unkind to you in anyway?
You leap for joy if you are persecuted?
If you have ever fasted you have not so much as hinted to anyone you are fasting?
If anyone wanted to borrow from you, you would give to them without ever expecting anything back?" ~ Quote by: Bobsmename.​

These questions cast doubt on in that we cannot obey the words of Jesus.

And in our own strength, we never can my friend...

God Bless!

 

[bobsmename]

No, your not. You are not interested in following Jesus by what you said so far.
You made it appear like nobody can obey Jesus.

You attack me because you do not understand the new covenant. But it has always been this way. The apostles in the first century were attacked by those who clung to righteousness of obeying the law

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It would help if you understand the foundation upon which the Christian faith stands, but you do not sadly. And I would say, I am more eager than you to follow Jesus teaching based on what you have written here

The 144,000 (Messianic Jewish believers in the future) obey the Lamb.

3 "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." (Revelation 14:3-5).​

Yet, I know that this text in Scripture will not convince you that we should encourage others to obey the words of Jesus and not disobey them or that it is impossible to obey them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Nowhere am I suggesting that we can obey the Lord Jesus Christ on our own strength or power. Some may suggest that is what I am referring to, but it is not. We have to pray and ask the Lord to do the good work through us. Jesus said we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5).

 

[bobsmename]

Yet, I know that this text in Scripture will not convince you that we should encourage others to obey the words of Jesus and not disobey them or that it is impossible to obey them.

So why do you not even try to obey all the words of Jesus?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You attack me because you do not understand the new covenant. But it has always been this way. The apostles in the first century were attacked by those who clung to righteousness of obeying the law

I am only criticizing the belief that discourages me and or others in following the words of Jesus. This belief is not taught in Scripture. Nowhere is there a verse or passage that encourages us to not obey Jesus or that it is impossible to obey Him. So I am moving on from talking to you. Paul has strong warnings against those who do not agree with the words of Jesus (See: 1 Timothy 6:3-4).

 

[bobsmename]

Carry each others burdens(love them) and so fulfil(fulfil) the law of Christ Gal6:2

Some however set you tasks they do not even try to follow themselves, that is not carrying each others burdens, nor is it remotely loving them

 

[bobsmename]

I am only criticizing the belief that discourages me and or others in following the words of Jesus. This belief is not taught in Scripture. Nowhere is there a verse or passage that encourages us to not obey Jesus or that it is impossible to obey Him. So I am moving on from talking to you. Paul has strong warnings against those who do not agree with the words of Jesus (See: 1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Bearing false witness will not help you here. I have encouraged no one not to obey Jesus words, I have simply shown hypocrisy where it is written. Demanding of others what you do not demand of yourself

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So why do you not even try to obey all the words of Jesus?

This is what I am talking about. You think nobody can obey Jesus and yet a moment ago you asked the question: "Where have I spoken against Jesus teaching?" You are contradicting yourself. I am done talking with you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Bearing false witness will not help you here. I have encouraged no one not to obey Jesus words, I have simply shown hypocrisy where it is written. Demanding of others what you do not demand of yourself

Not true. They can just look at post #259 and other posts on your teaching that we cannot obey Jesus or that is not possible to obey His teaching. Anyways, I am moving on from talking with you.

 

[bobsmename]

This is what I am talking about. You think nobody can obey Jesus and yet a moment ago you asked the question: "Where have I spoken against Jesus teaching?" You are contradicting yourself. I am done talking with you.

Once again, nowhere have I written concerning not obeying Jesus words. I hav e only pointed out the hypocrisy of telling others they must obey Jesus commands to be righteous before God, when the individual stating this does not try and obey many of Jesus literal commands. Jesus himself pointed out such hypocrisy to his disciples

 

[bobsmename]

Not true. They can just look at post #259 and other posts on your teaching that we cannot obey Jesus or that is not possible to obey His teaching. Anyways, I am moving on from talking with you.

Yes, let us leave it there, the unbiased observer will soon see who is and who is not telling the truth

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Once again, nowhere have I written concerning not obeying Jesus words. I hav e only pointed out the hypocrisy of telling others they must obey Jesus commands to be righteous before God, when the individual stating this does not try and obey many of Jesus literal commands. Jesus himself pointed out such hypocrisy to his disciples

 

[Neogaia777]

To all:

Nowhere am I suggesting that we can obey the Lord Jesus Christ on our own strength or power. Some may suggest that is what I am referring to, but it is not. We have to pray and ask the Lord to do the good work through us. Jesus said we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5).

Your words do seem to suggest that, or that your claiming that your not saying it when it seems as if you actually are...?

But if we, or if I, have you wrong, then I do apologize, etc...

It's just your own words and what your saying, etc, do seem to suggest that, or that that is what you are suggesting to others, etc...?

You seem to not be practicing what your preaching and/or saying and/or spreading either, seem to have kind of a "double standard", etc, which is not a good sign, etc...? Seeming to only want to condemn only also, etc...? Also seem to have some hatred or bitter resentment towards others like non-believers and sinners, etc, or just anyone, or any kind of people in general, who don't agree with you or your views etc, which is not a very good sign either, etc... Just don't seem like a very truly loving and forgiving person in general, etc, and we wonder what kind of spirit you are truly of and/or are truly belonging to, etc...

You can sometimes appear to be or come across "nice" sometimes on the outside, or on the surface, etc, but we also think we something else there also, something ugly that you only think you are hiding underneath, etc...

But if we or if I have you wrong, I do 100% sincerely apologize though, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[bobsmename]

Paul's message is hard to understand, impossible for the logical mind of man, only the Holy Spirit can turn on the light. Only when you know sin cannot condemn you/you have no righteousness of obeying the law, will sin not be your master:

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law(righteousness of obeying the law) but under grace(righteousness of faith in Christ) Rom6:14

 

[BNR32FAN]

For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.

For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.”

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

“Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— for they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”

Though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief

And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and “by the prince of demons he casts out the demons.” And he called them to him and said to them in parables, “How can Satan cast out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end.

And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges.

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. “You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.”

Let’s continue reading Ephesians 4:30 and examine the context of what Paul is saying.

“Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another. BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:25-32‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Then Paul continues to expound on this message in chapter 5. Notice he begins with the word “Therefore”.

“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Here we can see that Paul is warning the saints in Ephesus who are faithful to Christ and whom are sealed with the Holy Spirit to the day of redemption of turning to a sinful way of life that will result in them receiving the wrath of God on the sons of disobedience.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

For when I read the Scriptures, I do not get the impression that we can disobey Jesus or that we should not strive to obey His commands with the intention that we can keep them at some point in our lives (no matter how difficult some of them appear to be).

Matthew 7:26-27 says anyone who does not do what Jesus says they are like a fool who built His house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house.

Acts of the Apostles 3:23 says the same thing. It says anyone who does not hear (does not obey) the words of that prophet (JESUS), they will be destroyed.

Jesus said narrow is the way (See: Matthew 7:13-14).
Most do not appear to be on that narrow way.
Most appear to justify sin on some level thinking they are saved by having a belief alone on Jesus.

Any unbiased observer of what their Bible says in these passages and others like it and what they see in the popular churches teach these days will lead them to side with Jesus and not the popular masses of religion today. Granted, it will not be many. Many want the easy way or the wide gate path.

 

[jahel]

Let’s continue reading Ephesians 4:30 and examine the context of what Paul is saying.

“Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another. BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.” Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:25-32‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Then Paul continues to expound on this message in chapter 5. Notice he begins with the word “Therefore”.

“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Here we can see that Paul is warning the saints in Ephesus who are faithful to Christ and whom are sealed with the Holy Spirit to the day of redemption of turning to a sinful way of life that will result in them receiving the wrath of God on the sons of disobedience.

But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

Simple message of guidance. Not in anyway micromanagement.

For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

That seems to be according to nature. Old nature, without the means to advance.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”

They had not received the message that gave to them eternal life.

Here we can see that Paul is warning the saints in Ephesus who are faithful to Christ and whom are sealed with the Holy Spirit to the day of redemption of turning to a sinful way of life that will result in them receiving the wrath of God on the sons of disobedience.

No we don’t see that. We see teachers who are not teachers.

 

[bobsmename]

Be careful,’ Jesus said to them. ‘Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees. Matt 16:6

‘Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy Luke12:1

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practise what they preach.
Matt23:2&3