• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Featured The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by BCsenior, Jan 1, 2020.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,816
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    1 John 1:7 says you have to walk in the light as He (Christ) is in the light, and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Walking in the light is loving your brother (Which is heavily implied in 1 John 2:9-11). 1 John 3:10 says, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
     
  2. HatGuy

    HatGuy Some guy in a hat

    800
    +629
    South Africa
    Christian
    Married
    Thanks, these are helpful and I appreciate them and don't disagree with them.

    I think they help to a certain degree, but I have found they're not enough when dealing with addiction.

    I've seen plenty of Christians try all of these, but yet they can't shake pornography or other addictions out of their lives.

    My experience seems to show that addiction is an emotional problem that needs more. But what is that "more"?

    And if a person is struggling with addiction, are they condemned until they overcome it?

    What's your take on that?
     
  3. steppinrazor

    steppinrazor Philippians 4:8, Proverbs 3:6 Supporter

    52
    +49
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    yes, that is an easy one..zero. ...or maybe one if you count accepting Jesus as your savior to be born again
     
  4. bobsmename

    bobsmename Member

    154
    +15
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Widowed
    To just limit it to a few verses of scripture. A person is called to surrender their life to Christ. The Holy Spirit then enters their life and writes the law in their mind and places it on their heart God wants them to follow. In this sense they have been born again. They instinctively know in their mind, the nuts and bolts of how God wants them to live, for the law is in their mind, and in their heart they want to live according to God's ways, for the law is in their heart. The no longer desire to live as they would naturally seek to live, but rather to live as God wants them to live. Because, and only because this has happened, their sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more. A licence to sin removed under the basis on
    which the new covenant stands.
    But though you are willing to surrender your life to Christ, that does not bring perfection in law keeping. You have a battle all your life between what the Spirt in you wants and what the flesh wants. And when you wilfully succumb to the flesh, you get hit with a conscience, for you have gone against how you in your heart know you should live and want to live, and you have no rest, and no peace until you come before your Father in Heaven and ask his forgiveness for your folly. Those who speak of a licence e to sin if Jesus died for all your sins, do not understand the outworking on which the Christian faith stands
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,816
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    To all:

    In the Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30): We learn that those who were faithful over a little were told to enter into the joy of their Lord (Matthew 25:21). Yet, the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness (Matthew 25:30). Paul says a person can deny God by a lack of works.

    "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

    But is more than just good works. We have to live holy. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). Check the context. It is referring to righteous living and not Christ's imputed holiness in Hebrews 12:14. For we are to follow after peace and holiness (More context: Hebrews 13:1, and Hebrews 13:5, etc.). For there were certain believers who did wonderful works for Christ, but they also worked lawlessness or iniquity and Christ told them to depart from Him (See: Matthew 7:23).
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  6. steppinrazor

    steppinrazor Philippians 4:8, Proverbs 3:6 Supporter

    52
    +49
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    nice copy and paste...
     
  7. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +3,952
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    So do you think one can lose their salvation...?

    And who is (or should be) the (only) judge of that, etc...?

    What I'm basically trying to say is, that if a person can lose it, I'm not ever the judge of it/that, etc, and I not only cannot, and I not only should not, but I also would not ever claim to be nor would ever say I would ever be able to tell or say or not ever either, etc... which means I have to give everyone "the benefit of the doubt" and treat everyone as either saved already, or can all be each one equally, equally be saved if they are not already, or have not been already, etc... and am not the one to judge whether or not they can ever lose it or not, to say nothing of the age old argument of whether or not one truly ever truly had it to begin with or not, etc...

    Anyway, to say nothing of that, etc...

    But that is a matter in which I not only cannot, not only should not, but absolutely will not, judge, ever, etc, because it is not my place to judge, nor can I even really ever truly say or tell in that matter ever either, etc, so why would I speak in matters I can't know anything about or know nothing of, etc, and it's not my place anyway, but is God's place and the place of God only, etc...

    And I will not put myself in God's place, etc, and I highly suggest that none of you do not either, etc...

    I might tell them there could possibly be a "risk", but also that there is 100% absolutely no way "I" can know that for sure in an individuals, or any individuals case ever, in a "case by case basis" that "only God can know" for sure ever, etc...

    But I also say that if you can lose it, you never truly had it to begin with, etc...

    Anyway,

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  8. jahel

    jahel returned to old acct

    616
    +240
    Canada
    Christian
    Private
    I know you didn’t ask me but it depends on if they are giving it free reign in their lives or if they are serious about overcoming the duplicity of their lives. Imo they are not condemned, they are still in perfect Love. But like coffee it just stunts the growth and the lessons will continue when they get back to where they left off.

    Working out one’s own salvation with fear and trembling takes as much dedication as doing needlepoint (no pun intended) It may look a mess from our pov but from the eternal a beautiful tapestry is being made together. You get to pick the colours.
     
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,816
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Not sure what you are talking about. They are my own words with quotes in Scripture.
     
  10. bobsmename

    bobsmename Member

    154
    +15
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Widowed
    Imagine a child being thrown out of the family home everytime they transgressed their parents rules, and were not allowed back in until they earnestly repented. Terryfying isn't it? Yet that is how some teach God treats his children
     
  11. bobsmename

    bobsmename Member

    154
    +15
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Widowed
    I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
    and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.

    16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. Rom9:15&16
     
  12. steppinrazor

    steppinrazor Philippians 4:8, Proverbs 3:6 Supporter

    52
    +49
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    ok well you were just quoting scripture there, not really saying anything. I can quote scripture at you all day but it doesnt bring any context without discussion. Not sure if you were supporting or contrasting my statement, but you wont find anything in the bible to contrast my statement. Once reborn we are no longer sinners, we walk in Christ NO MATTER what we do, consciously or subconsciously...think about that
     
  13. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +3,952
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    Nor does it depend on human or a man's knowledge or judgement's or knowing either, etc...

    Funny how some seem to always forget that, etc...?

    Whom God approves of and/or disapproves of, etc...?

    God Bless!
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,816
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I would say two things.

    #1. Being grateful for the sins that God has forgiven us of in our past.
    For the woman who kept kissing Jesus's feet was grateful that her many sins were forgiven. She was thankful for God's grace and as a result it showed forth in her actions. Paul taught a similar thing. In 1 Corinthians 15:10, Paul said he labored more than all his brethren, but it was not himself but it was the grace of God within him. Paul was grateful for the many horrible sins that he committed against the church (prior to becoming a Christian or accepting Christ) were forgiven and this grace inspired him to labor.

    #2. The fear of the Lord, men depart from evil (Proverbs 16:6). Jesus said fear not the one who can destroy the body, but fear the One who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna (i.e. the Lake of Fire) (Matthew 10:28). A person who believes the portions of Scripture that warn against how certain sins can destroy any person's soul in the afterlife will be more inclined to truly fear the Lord and to follow Him. But those who want to be wicked, will always be wicked. Isaiah 26:10 says,

    "Let grace be shown to the wicked,
    Yet he will not learn righteousness;" (Isaiah 26:10).
     
  15. HatGuy

    HatGuy Some guy in a hat

    800
    +629
    South Africa
    Christian
    Married
    Okay, thanks for the engagement - appreciate the time :)
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,816
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I did explain it by comparing Scripture with Scripture. I said loving your brother is walking in the light according to 1 John 2:9-11. 1 John 1:7 is essentially saying we have to love our brother in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin. 1 John 3:10 merely confirms or backs this statement up by the use of other words.
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,816
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Your welcome. May God's goodness be upon you.
     
  18. bobsmename

    bobsmename Member

    154
    +15
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Widowed
    If Jesus only died for past sins, the believer must live their life under righteousness of obeying the law, Paul repeatedly states they do not ​
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,816
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    To all:

    We are not under the 613 Laws of Moses (of which Paul was talking about).
    Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
    We follow the commands of Jesus and His followers (See: Romans 8:2, Galatians 6:2, James 1:25, 1 John 3:23, and John 13:34). Yes, the Moral Law has been repeated by Jesus and His followers, none of the other aspects like the ceremonial laws or the judicial laws have carried over.

    Also, most are confused when they read salvation in the Scriptures.
    There are four different aspects of salvation described in God's Word.

    #1. Provisional Atonement (not "Limited Atonement").
    (A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
    This is Jesus paying the price for the sins of the entire world so as to offer mankind the free gift of salvation (if they so choose to accept it); Note: Christ's resurrection (to give us a new body not tainted by sin one day), and the ascension to the Father (after Christ telling Mary not to touch Him), and his entering the holy temple by his blood (to be our Heavenly High Priest) is also included in the Provisional Atonement, too. (For Provisional Atonement verses, see: John 1:29, 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Romans 5:6-8.).

    #2. Justification (Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
    (The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
    Justification is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Justification is believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, was buried, and had risen again three days later on your behalf, and accepting Jesus as your Savior, and seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer. This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). (For Justification verses, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

    #3. Sanctification (The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
    (The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
    Sanctification is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work (because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

    #4. Glorification (The Future Salvation of the Truly Faithful Believer).
    (A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
    Glorification is when God takes the believer home to be with Him in His kingdom and He gives Him a new resurrected body that is not tainted by sin. This process of salvation (in being taken home) is a by product automatically for those believers who properly applied Justification and Sanctification to their lives (For Glorification verses, see: 1 Peter 5:4, 1 Peter 1:4, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Romans 13:11, Philippians 3:20-21, Hebrews 9:28).


    Conclusion:

    Justification, and then Sanctification is what we as believers need to be focused on. For if we are justified, and sanctified (which is only made possible by the Provisional Atonement), then we will be glorified.
     
  20. bobsmename

    bobsmename Member

    154
    +15
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Widowed
    7 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed – a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: ‘The righteous will live by faith.’ Rom1:17
     
  21. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,816
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    To all:

    We have to move beyond just having the milk of the Word alone (God's grace), but we have to also accept the meat of the Word. The meat of the Word is to be able to discern between good and evil (See: Hebrews 5:14). Most today seek to justify sin under God's grace and thereby they are not discerning properly between good and evil.

    Side Note:

    Again, I am not saying we do not need God's grace. We always need God's grace, but we also need to enter the Sanctification Process as a part of salvation, too (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:24, and John 5:24). For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).
     
Loading...