- May 28, 2018
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This is a reply to Cis.jd, where I am unable to reply within the thread, since replies have been closed off:
Cis.jd says:
"The way i cite scripture isn't by cherry picking verses and taking part in an "interpretation battle" but using references in the Bible (or just general theology)
"For example if your arguments (or your interpretation to all the verses cite for your support) about predestination and everything you just said here is correct, then explain to me this:
"In Genesis with Eve taking from the tree did God predestined his creation to disobey, so he created disobedience to him, meant for us to be sinners, and then cursed us anyway?
"Since God predestined everything – he created/destined our own choice, salvation, sin, everything, then you cannot love him, nor believe in him. You where just made on auto-pilot to only obey him, simple as that, and therefore nothing is good, nothing is righteous."
My reply follows:
You make a huge logical jump saying "...God predestined his creation to disobey, SO he created disobedience..." "So" there, being another way of saying, "therefore". The logic is wrong.
You do the same thing again by saying, "...he created/destined our own choice, salvation, sin, everything, THEN you cannot love him, nor believe in him." "Then" there, being another way of saying, "therefore". The logic is again wrong.
It is human logic, that denies God's transcendence. We cannot blame God for our sin. We can indeed credit him for providing a way for us to see our unworthiness of his grace. As Clete has said to me, I want my cake and eat it too, and I suppose what I just said sounds like that, but no, God can do only good. If my logic is bad, ok, I relent, because I accept the fact that God can not sin above my logic, but God providing for us to behave according to our sinful nature is not the same as God making us robots.
Nor, even, is he to blame for Adam and Eve's sin, though they did it without an original sin nature. As I like to say, "Don't pretend that we are unwilling participants in our own sin."
Cis.jd says:
"The way i cite scripture isn't by cherry picking verses and taking part in an "interpretation battle" but using references in the Bible (or just general theology)
"For example if your arguments (or your interpretation to all the verses cite for your support) about predestination and everything you just said here is correct, then explain to me this:
"In Genesis with Eve taking from the tree did God predestined his creation to disobey, so he created disobedience to him, meant for us to be sinners, and then cursed us anyway?
"Since God predestined everything – he created/destined our own choice, salvation, sin, everything, then you cannot love him, nor believe in him. You where just made on auto-pilot to only obey him, simple as that, and therefore nothing is good, nothing is righteous."
My reply follows:
You make a huge logical jump saying "...God predestined his creation to disobey, SO he created disobedience..." "So" there, being another way of saying, "therefore". The logic is wrong.
You do the same thing again by saying, "...he created/destined our own choice, salvation, sin, everything, THEN you cannot love him, nor believe in him." "Then" there, being another way of saying, "therefore". The logic is again wrong.
It is human logic, that denies God's transcendence. We cannot blame God for our sin. We can indeed credit him for providing a way for us to see our unworthiness of his grace. As Clete has said to me, I want my cake and eat it too, and I suppose what I just said sounds like that, but no, God can do only good. If my logic is bad, ok, I relent, because I accept the fact that God can not sin above my logic, but God providing for us to behave according to our sinful nature is not the same as God making us robots.
Nor, even, is he to blame for Adam and Eve's sin, though they did it without an original sin nature. As I like to say, "Don't pretend that we are unwilling participants in our own sin."