How Free Will Destroys Faith in Christ (Continued)

[Bible Highlighter]

It is pretty silly to even debate this kind of thing. It is like arguing against whether the sky can be blue. The Bible has many free will statements in it that a person has to ignore or rewrite to fit a belief that is based on a few texts taken out of context.

 

[chilehed]

I doubt that Dave is doing any such thing.

He may not be doing it intentionally. But, unless I'm mistaken, he's setting free will in some sort of opposition to the grace of God, and by doing so he necessarily does the same with grace and faith. Faith is, by definition, an act of free will.

 

[1Reformedman]

Paulo also posts here from time to time, though mostly on the atheist accessible forum. If you go there, be careful --they are quick to report virulent expression.

Oh really? Does he use his CL handle here? Dave L I know from another forum. He's a Calvinist.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Oh really? Does she use his CL handle here? Dave L I know from another forum. He's a Calvinist.

Were you on carm?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Yeah, that doesn’t make any sense.
Should denotes a possibility.

To the contrary, "should" denotes (in this context) mere moral requirement. You will be hard pressed to prove that God's command necessarily implies the ability to obey it.

"7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God." Romans 8

 

[1Reformedman]

It is pretty silly to even debate this kind of thing. It is like arguing against whether the sky can be blue. The Bible has many free will statements in it that a person has to ignore or rewrite to fit a belief that is based on a few texts taken out of context.

Yes, there are many free will statements in the bible but nothing in the realm regarding choosing Christ unto salvation. You cant even see the kingdom of God unless you've been born again so since you can't understand spiritual things as a lost one (1 Cor. 2:14) and you cannot please God as a lost one (Rom. 8:7-8) then it also logically follows you cant choose Christ until you've been born again because to do so would be pleasing to God. Furthermore, a lost one's mind is hostile (HATRED) to God is not subject to the law of God nor indeed can be.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Oh really? Does she use his CL handle here? Dave L I know from another forum. He's a Calvinist.

Yes indeed he is, thank God. I thought Paulo was a he. I don't know his handle here. I've only talked with him about it on CL

 

[1Reformedman]

Really? Well I completely disagree with your opinion.

Yes, I fully expect you to do so as all synergists do.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Yeah, that doesn’t make any sense.
Should denotes a possibility.

I'm guessing you have a bit of spiritual indigestion with the Potter's right to do whatever he chooses with the vessels he makes for this purpose and that. (Not to mention his ability!)

 

[1Reformedman]

He may not be doing it intentionally. But, unless I'm mistaken, he's setting free will in some sort of opposition to the grace of God, and by doing so he necessarily does the same with grace and faith. Faith is, by definition, an act of free will.

Free will doesn't apply to saving grace. Grace is favor granted freely by God not merited by what you may or may not do. Remember, God predestined and chose whom he would save before the foundation of the world began. Romans 8:28-30 and Eph. 1:4, 11, etc.

 

[Halbhh]

well here's the problem I see with that argument. The bible says the lost one cant understand spiritual things (1 Corinthians 2:14, his mind is not subject to the law of God and indeed cant be (Romans 8:7-8) so wherein the lost one's natural moral ability does he find the spiritual ability to choose Christ while he is still IN BONDAGE to the old nature which has been radically corrupted by sin?

Yes. So, what do we choose in that regard then?

We hear: many are called but few will be chosen -- few choose to then take the path to the narrow gate. Many choose, with freedom to choose, to prefer the other, wider road.

 

[1Reformedman]

Were you on carm?

Carm is just a ministry website, not a discussion forum. Unless, of course, there's one with that name I'm not aware of.

 

[1Reformedman]

Yes indeed he is, thank God. I thought Paulo was a he. I don't know his handle here. I've only talked with him about it on CL

yes its a typo and I just corrected it. Thanks, bro.

 

[chilehed]

Grace is favor granted freely by God not merited by what you may or may not do.

Again, I didn't say anything that sounds remotely otherwise. You seem to not be responding to what I actually said.

 

[1Reformedman]

Yes. So, what do we choose in that regard then?

We hear: many are called but few will be chosen -- few choose to then take the path to the narrow gate. Many choose, with freedom to choose, to prefer the other, wider road.

Yes, many are called to hear the word of God but only a few are chosen by God to be saved. The verse does not say few "will be" chosen. It says few are chosen. Are chosen is a spiritual truth not a statement of future action by God.

Remember, God chose whom He would save before the foundation of the world began Eph. 1:4, 11.

Those whom he predestined he also chose, and those whom he chose he also he justified, and those he justified....... Romans 8:28-30


In John 6, Jesus said no one can come to him unless the Father draws them (vs. 44). He also said those the Father draws to him the father has already given him (vs 39). He also said all that the father gives to him WILL COME to him (vs. 37).

Notice the past tense use of the words "has given to me" in verse 39 of John 6. Notice also in vs 37 those God chose to save WILL COME to Jesus.

One more thing. God's will is being done on earth as IT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE IN HEAVEN. The names are already written in the lamb's book of life.

 

[1Reformedman]

Yeah, that doesn’t make any sense.
Should denotes a possibility.

No, it denotes a fallen man's spiritual inability. The lost one cannot please God so the claim to free will choice unto salvation as a spiritually dead one is BOGUS. Its also a pagan concept that crept into the RCC long ago.

 

[jerry kelso]

Did Jesus coerce Lazarus when he raised him from the dead? Did Lazarus complain about it?

davel,

1. Lazarus was dead. Why would he complain afterwards when he was a believer before.
Are you going to answer my post and try to rebut the scriptures I gave? Or are you just going to give opinion and conjecture and dead reasoning?
I am really curious. Jerry Kelso

 

[MDC]

Yes, I fully expect you to do so as all synergists do.

Sounds like you are a crypto synergist that compromises Gods truth to me. Your arguments against free will are meaningless being that it’s non essential according to you. Prove that monergistic soteriology (Calvinism) is the same as synergistic soteriology (arminianism).

 

[1Reformedman]

Sounds like you are a crypto synergist that compromises Gods truth to me. Your arguments against free will are meaningless being that it’s non essential according to you. Prove that monergistic soteriology (Calvinism) is the same as synergistic soteriology (arminianism).

I'm a monergist. Sorry.

 

[MDC]

I'm a monergist. Sorry.

And so am I