How Free Will Destroys Faith in Christ (Continued)

[Acts2:38]

Free will is part of salvation. If you have it it is because God saved you.

Free will also can bring a saved christian into an unsaved lost state if they should not repent and continue in sin:
Hebrews 6:4-6

 

[Dave L]

There are no moral atheists?

Their motive is off.

 

[dms1972]

Free will is part of salvation. If you have it it is because God saved you.

What happens when God regenerates someone?

 

[Dave L]

davel,

1. Relationship is a two way street.
Jesus always expected people to put a step of faith forward.
We are to trust and obey him which takes a person choosing of their own free will choice.
God will not make one do what they don’t want to no matter how saved you are.

2. Disobedience by a Christian is an act of freewill choice.
Obedience is a freewill choice Choose you this day whom you will obey Joshua 24:15 who were of the chosen people.
Ezekiel 18 says that God would forget the Jews righteousness if they didn’t repent.
James 5:19-20 was talking to Christians when he said if one convert the backslider would save their soul and hide their multitude of sins etc.

3. Naaman was told to dip in the Jordan seven time and he didn’t want to do it. He finally did but God wanted him to choose freely and wisely so it would be out of love and respect to God.
Hebrews 12:1 says to lay aside the sin that easily besets us.

4. I’ve got to go, but it is no difference in the act of salvation. God does not coerce people. He will take their faith and obedience and he knows their mind and heart and Calvary was his work of redemption alone and he alone can put his stamp of approval as one being truly and officially saved. Jerry Kelso

Did Jesus coerce Lazarus when he raised him from the dead? Did Lazarus complain about it?

 

[Acts2:38]

Only the saved will believe any of this. Doubters will look the other way.

I'm confused by this short last statement, to what it refers to.

Do you mean the saved will believe the scriptures I placed down?

 

[Dave L]

What happens when God regenerates someone?

They see the true Christ for the first time. And believe in him. Wanting to live a holy life.

 

[Dave L]

I'm confused by this short last statement, to what it refers to.

Do you mean the saved will believe the scriptures I placed down?

Believe them in truth. Not with their carnal mind.

 

[Acts2:38]

Believe them in truth. Not with their carnal mind.

What?

 

[-57]

The question i asked was if he still was preaching the Gospel, you're taking it in another direction. In the context of the thread I am thinking of if he holds to calvinism or arminianism, does holding either of these theologies result in the minister preaching something other than the gospel - assuming that they don't actually mix in or preach or teach the details of their respective theologies?

I would say, I don't think it matters. The arminians just haven't figured out they were chosen. It's all, 100% Jesus.

 

[-57]

Hearing the word Romans 10:17

And believe that Jesus is indeed the Son of God who came to this earth and sacrificed himself for us on the cross Hebrews 11:6

However, we know by direct scripture and scripture that implies such, there will be those that chose not to believe.

King Agrippa - Acts 26
27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.

28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.


"almost" means he didnt chose.

You still didn't explain why some people hear the gospel and choose Jesus and some don't.

 

[-57]

Free will is part of salvation. If you have it it is because God saved you.

I agree...to add to that...
As God is regenerating a person..He is also giving them faith at the exact same time...while being brought into that state Gods grace is irresistable.....and you freely choose.

Here's an analogy..
It's kinda like a train going to Philadelphia....some say when the doors open you have a choice to get on the train or remain on the platform. In reality, when the door opens you are placed on the train...and as you're being placed on the train you are happy it's happening.

 

[Acts2:38]

You still didn't explain why some people hear the gospel and choose Jesus and some don't.

well i did answer your question though. Look back to your post statement.

Also, I didnt really think I had to answer "how and why" people hear the gospel. I havent met a person yet that didnt agree on that, though I suppose there can be a first time.

And as far as why some choose Jesus and some dont, I already gave you king Agrippa who didnt. Then there is Demas that forsook Paul because he loved the present world.

It was a command to go out and preach the gospel Matthew 28:19-20

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

You still didn't explain why some people hear the gospel and choose Jesus and some don't.

The ones who reject the gospel were never the elect , those who were predestined with their names written in the book of life from the beginning .

Next ..................

hope this helps !!!

 

[Dave L]

What?

The carnal mind (unregenerate) cannot understand scripture.

 

[Acts2:38]

The carnal mind (unregenerate) cannot understand scripture.

Well if your stating that "unregenerate" persons will not understand, allow me to clarify more.

Not that they "dont understand", but that they choose not to believe. They simply will not believe.

King Agrippa in Acts 26 was "almost persuaded" but nevertheless chose not to become a Christian.

 

[Dave L]

Well if your stating that "unregenerate" persons will not understand, allow me to clarify more.

Not that they "dont understand", but that they choose not to believe. They simply will not believe.

King Agrippa in Acts 26 was "almost persuaded" but nevertheless chose not to become a Christian.

“And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” Acts 13:48 (KJV 1900)

 

[-57]

well i did answer your question though. Look back to your post statement.

Also, I didnt really think I had to answer "how and why" people hear the gospel. I havent met a person yet that didnt agree on that, though I suppose there can be a first time.

And as far as why some choose Jesus and some dont, I already gave you king Agrippa who didnt. Then there is Demas that forsook Paul because he loved the present world.

It was a command to go out and preach the gospel Matthew 28:19-20

No you didn't...a person can be presented the gospel, as you said..and even presented king Agrippa as an example. What you didn't include is why a person such as the king or anyone else would reject the gospel.
It seems obvious that a person will hear the gospel and then base the decision on their life experience. King Agrippa had a reason to say no. Something in his life caused him to reject Paul's message.

 

[-57]

Well if your stating that "unregenerate" persons will not understand, allow me to clarify more.

Not that they "dont understand", but that they choose not to believe. They simply will not believe.

King Agrippa in Acts 26 was "almost persuaded" but nevertheless chose not to become a Christian.

Some translations say....And Agrippa said to Paul, “In a short time would you persuade me to be a Christian?” Not almost persuade, but that's beside the point.

 

[Acts2:38]

“And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” Acts 13:48 (KJV 1900)

Okay, but this is why I call it cherry picking. You grab one verse because it potentially has an arranged statement you think helps the stance.

Dont get me wrong though I am very happy you decided to put up some scripture. But you cant just pull one piece and ignore ALL the rest of what scripture states.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

Because God loved the entire world (John 3:16), and so wants all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4) and not a single one to perish (2 Peter 3:9), Christ died to be the propitiation for sins not just for the elect, but potentially for the entire world as well (1 John 2:2).

"Calvinism argues that by a secret and special operation of the Holy Spirit, God’s grace is poured forth upon the elect. Since the extension of this grace is an act of divine power, it cannot be resisted any more than the original creation could have resisted the creative might of the Lord (Hodge, Charles. 1960. Systematic Theology. Vol. 2. London, England: James Clarke & Co.)

But the fact is, though God’s grace is generously offered, it must be received by the sinner.

“We entreat also that you receive not the grace of God in vain” (2 Corinthians 6:1).

It is certainly possible to “receive not” that which is offered (cf. John 1:11).

Calvinists argue that grace is given to the elect unconditionally. If such is the case, then there is absolutely nothing that one must do in order to receive salvation—not even believe.

One writer states:

[W]e believe that there is no warrant whatsoever for the view that John 3:16 lays down faith as a condition to be performed by the lost person in order to attain spiritual eternal life.

Again he says:

God, without the use of the gospel or any other human means, will save all of his redeemed loved ones in every land and in every age (Sarrels 1978, 443-444).

The foregoing affirmations are ludicrous.

Paul declares that we have “access by faith into this grace” (Rom. 5:2). In his discussion of grace in his epistle to Titus, the inspired apostle states that God,

“according to his mercy, saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit ... being justified by his grace” (Tit. 3:5-7).

Paul equates being saved by the washing of regeneration with being justified by grace. The washing is an allusion to man’s response to God by submitting to baptism.

Grace is supplied by the Lord—independent of any merit on our part. Clearly, though, the washing of regeneration is a condition of our redemption.

But is that expression an allusion to baptism? Even Calvin admitted that he had “no doubt” that Paul was alluding to baptism—though he denied the connection between baptism and salvation (Shepherd, J. W. 1950. Handbook on Baptism. Nashville, TN: Gospel Advocate.) Wayne Jackson -Christian Courier "John Calvin and Grace".

So the idea of predestined, ordained elect chosen to be saved before they born or have a chance to do anything is astonishingly incorrect. One must hear the word, believe, repent, confess, and be baptized, then remain faithful in order for salvation to be true.

 

[Acts2:38]

Some translations say....And Agrippa said to Paul, “In a short time would you persuade me to be a Christian?” Not almost persuade, but that's beside the point.

may you direct me to them? which versions I mean. Because KJV and whatever version you mention are in clear contradiction even when I look at the Greek meanings.