BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

[Der Alte]

Honestly, I feel it sort of gets in the way of the argument, as it makes things rather repetitive. Fine Linen is probably the worst in regards to this, as so many of his posts are just platitudes or stuff copy/pasted from (often rather old and out of date) universalist sources rather than something that's a genuine reply to what people are saying, plus his tendency to put in multiple such posts in a row. The sheer extent of it is making me ponder putting him on Ignore just so I don't have to so constantly scroll past posts that I see as so devoid of meaning and can just read the universalists who are better contributing to the discussion.

I've been known to go into stealth mode because I get frustrated with some of the repetitious arguments. I pop up every once in awhile to see what's shaking, post a reply or two then go back into stealth mode.

 

[Rick Otto]

QUOTE="FineLinen, : Dear Rick: You are dealing with an old wreck of a once powerful man of muscles and exquisite tastes. Please do not finish me off premature.

LOL, you are a rare gem.

You are bringing out the big guns with the introduction of Dr. Strong.

I rode this circuit since early this millennium staying (except for bans) in General Theology Forums with "real" Christians lol (kidding), but have been hiding out in Conspiracy Theory since it opened in the Hobbies & Entertainment forums - a safe haven where my ''aura" of my anointing won't chafe or get scuffed.
So brace for incoming from the likes of Mathew Henry & John Gill, bro.

God Equation=

"For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Questions=

1. How many are "made sinners" by one man's disobedience?[/QUOTE]
All except One. The One who wasn't in Adam. Seed of the Virgin.

2. How many are "made righteous" by One?

All but One. The born righteous under the law (Gal 4:4)

3. How much is "many"?

Depends who you ask. I think for a Field Guide we could settle on "more than half but distinctly not all". Wouldn't you agree? ( & you may still buy me a beer if you don't).

4. Are both sides equal?

I would assert they are not for both the above reasons and a bag of popcorn to go with beer.

I hope you don't mind me having this much fun. Tell me to quit, I will.

 

[mmksparbud]

That is almost amusing. You are telling me that "The wicked have ceased to exist." Pardon me, but that is what DEATH is. The antediluvian peoples are still dead, every one of them, even though the "world that then was" is long gone. Or, burned to ashed in the Lake of Fire...yup, they will still be dead by any definition of death, that is to say, not alive. Uffda!

Exactly---I was responding to the idea that death is not defeated because the wicked are dead!! Which to me sounds insane! At the 2nd death, the wicked cease to exist and there is no longer is any fire left--there is no sin left---and death has itself has been done away with for there will no longer be any more death.

 

[mmksparbud]

Dear Lady: Cast off your shackles. God loves every last sinner. He always has, He always will. His love is what He is in essence. His steadfast love never ceases: ever!

Every one of us skip through the Scriptures with a very limited grasp of what our poor blind eyes are attempting to grasp. It is the very reason the Master of Glory declares>>>

“He opened their minds that they might understand the Scriptures.”

2000 years have not helped to eradicate the situation within each and every one of us. ONLY the anointing of the Holy Spirit of the Living God can, and will, alleviate our dire need of Him and His exceeding love & patience!

Of course He does----There is still the justice of God and the 2nd death for the wicked. They will still cease to exist. If you think God is a horrible, tyrannical beast for causing the death of the wicked---and sin itself---then you, in all probability, will not be able to share eternal life with Him! He wants those who love Him and acknowledge His supremacy and His justice and that all of it is out of love. It would be an eternal hell for the wicked to be in His presence for they hate God and the kind of peace, lifestyle and love He offers. They would be spending eternity seething in resentment and still trying to destroy God and the saved and install their own way of life. You can't seem to grasp that and find it impossible for anyone to feel that way---well Satan and his angels all felt that way while in heaven itself! And the first thing that the wicked do when resurrected is to band together to try and take over the descending New Jerusalem and would destroy God and all the saved if they could! If you can't see this, then you will end up joining them because you don't want a God that destroys the wicked and sin itself!
Those who have lived a life that reflects the very character of God in their life will be able to have eternal life in the presence of God. He gives us the Holy Spirit to achieve that and overcome. Those who reject that will have their wish and join the lost who hate Him. There are only 2 choices---you are either for God, or for Satan. If you do not want God--you will not get Him.

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[FineLinen]

really believe you need to reexamine your position on forgiveness of sins being outside of Christ. Christ is everything, and apart from Him there is NOTHING!

Grace and Peace...

Dear Skid" what gave you the most remote idea that our Father bringing His entire creation back Home to Himself is not by way of the Lord Jesus Christ?

He is the Saviour of Jehovah, that is His middle Name. He saves the especially, He saves all mankind. He is the Way, He is the Truth, He is the Way!

You must learn to sing in spontaneous vibrations. There is ONLY one way to gain entrance to the Choir; it is the Road of at-one-ment.

God IS the Saviour of ALL mankind, especially those who trust in His Name/ who believe. Teach & command this..

 

[mmksparbud]

Dear Skid" what gave you the most remote idea that our Father bringing His entire creation back Home to Himself is not by way of the Lord Jesus Christ?

He is the Saviour of Jehovah, that is His middle Name. He saves the especially, He saves all mankind. He is the Way, He is the Truth, He is the Way!

You must learn to sing in spontaneous vibrations. There is ONLY one way to gain entrance to the Choir; it is the Road of at-one-ment.

God IS the Saviour of ALL mankind, especially those who trust in His Name/ who believe. Teach & command this..

We were all created in the image of |God. having His DNA is not what saves us---it is having His character in our heart that saves us. It is love for Him that saves---not DNA. We may have His DNA and reflect the image of Satan for that is who rules our lives.

 

[FineLinen]

Of course He does----There is still the justice of God and the 2nd death for the wicked.

Dear Lady in shackles: God is indeed just, it flows from His glorious essence of unrestrained love & affection. The Lake of theion will not, cannot be avoided. Remember, the ONLY group of Christians NOT "hurt by the glorious Lake of Theos are "overcomers". They have already tasted of "hurt" over & over & over again, there simply is nothing left to hurt!

Welcome to our God the consuming Fire

 

[FineLinen]

LOL, you are a rare gem.

I rode this circuit since early this millennium staying (except for bans) in General Theology Forums with "real" Christians lol (kidding), but have been hiding out in Conspiracy Theory since it opened in the Hobbies & Entertainment forums - a safe haven where my ''aura" of my anointing won't chafe or get scuffed.
So brace for incoming from the likes of Mathew Henry & John Gill, bro.

God Equation=

"For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Questions=

1. How many are "made sinners" by one man's disobedience?[/QUOTE]
All except One. The One who wasn't in Adam. Seed of the Virgin.


All but One. The born righteous under the law (Gal 4:4)

Depends who you ask. I think for a Field Guide we could settle on "more than half but distinctly not all". Wouldn't you agree? ( & you may still buy me a beer if you don't).


I would assert they are not for both the above reasons and a bag of popcorn to go with beer.

I hope you don't mind me having this much fun. Tell me to quit, I will.[/QUOTE]

Dear Rick: Having fun with your popcorn and spirits must give way to Spirit & zao Life. BDAG & group are wonderful tools, but only as each of us know for ourselves His visitation can things Heavenly make sense. Even then, fresh avenues of Him break into exquisite territory of grandeur.

Which side of the God equation is not a fact? Is some of mankind "made sinners"? If so, some of mankind are "made righteous."

Both sides are in absolute union

 

[FineLinen]

Honestly, I feel it sort of gets in the way of the argument, as it makes things rather repetitive. Fine Linen is probably the worst in regards to this, as so many of his posts are just platitudes or stuff copy/pasted from (often rather old and out of date) universalist sources rather than something that's a genuine reply to what people are saying, plus his tendency to put in multiple such posts in a row. The sheer extent of it is making me ponder putting him on Ignore just so I don't have to so constantly scroll past posts that I see as so devoid of meaning and can just read the universalists who are better contributing to the discussion.

Dear JSRG: In 30 years of posting I have placed exactly 3 on ignore. It truly has been rewarding. If you are finding F.L. tedious join the line. Perhaps you should click on "ignore" and devote yourself to other posters? Go for it.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Getting together having a group hug and patting each other on the back does not advance your argument. The number of proponents of any position does not prove its correctness.

Come on der Alter, something greater than the law has come into the world, grace and truth. The spirit gives life, and the spirit will be poured out on all flesh.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I recently heard an ex-SDA say that that teaching was that the sinful go to hell, get punished in Hell for a limited amount of time (longer time for those who were more sinful), and then get annihilated. Basically universal reconciliation except instead of reconciliation at the end, you cease to exist. So you get both Hell and annihilation.

That's our loving God all over, wakes up the dead to roast them at His pleasure and then vaporise them. Ah, behold the holiness, the light, the grace!

Still, some would say, it's better than they deserve. This kind of thinking is exhibit A in the case against the historical church's darkest works. Starts to give one insight into how heretics got sentenced to auto-da-fe with the slow-burning green wood.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

More on the "all flesh" theme. Have a blessed Sunday. =o)

Luke 3:4-7 KJV
As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

John 17:1-3 KJV
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Yes, that's opened up another good universalist thread in scripture. It's this idea of purifying the flesh by either pouring out the spirit or consuming/immersing it in holy fire. The baptism of fire and spirit upon individuals and ultimately on groups and on creation itself when heaven comes to earth. The same message using different metaphors of spirit/ flesh and heaven/ earth. I always think of the line from Job 38:14 - the earth changed as clay under seal.

 

[Saint Steven]

Steve, I am not falsely accusing you. I respect you and your opinion. We are brothers, I appreciate your help in my other post about speaking in tongues. However, I really believe you need to reexamine your position on forgiveness of sins being outside of Christ. Christ is everything, and apart from Him there is NOTHING!

Grace and Peace...

I never said the forgiveness of sins is outside of Christ. The opposite in fact. And I agree that "Christ is everything, and apart from Him there is NOTHING!" That is a key component of the greater hope.

Hopefully from what you saw me posting on the tongues topic you can see that I have a solid understanding of the Bible and what it says.

I appreciate your concerns. But I think you need to study the greater hope a bit more. You are greatly misunderstanding it.

Christ Triumphant, by Thomas Allin
Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I never said the forgiveness of sins is outside of Christ. The opposite in fact. And I agree that "Christ is everything, and apart from Him there is NOTHING!" That is a key component of the greater hope.

Hopefully from what you saw me posting on the tongues topic you can see that I have a solid understanding of the Bible and what it says.

I appreciate your concerns. But I think you need to study the greater hope a bit more. You are greatly misunderstanding it.

Christ Triumphant, by Thomas Allin
Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

I like Skidder, but he's seriously spinning the wheels on this issue. Winch him out there Steve.

 

[Saint Steven]

I like Skidder, but he's seriously spinning the wheels on this issue. Winch him out there Steve.

I came into Universalism kicking and screaming, so hopefully the resistance is a good sign. We were allies on a tongues topic. He seemed to warm up to me better with that common belief.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I came into Universalism kicking and screaming, so hopefully the resistance is a good sign. We were allies on a tongues topic. He seemed to warm up to me better with that common belief.

Encouraging, I'm optimistic a breakthrough is coming.

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. (Schopenhauer)

 

[FineLinen]

That's our loving God all over, wakes up the dead to roast them at His pleasure and then vaporise them. Ah, behold the holiness, the light, the grace!

Still, some would say, it's better than they deserve. This kind of thinking is exhibit A in the case against the historical church's darkest works. Starts to give one insight into how heretics got sentenced to auto-da-fe with the slow-burning green wood.

Dear Shrewd: what a ghastly picture of our God has been painted by churchianity. Mankind is broken, that brokeness extends to those who think they can choose to follow the Lamb of God in the withersoever of His mighty strides. "You did not choose Me" is ringing in my poor deaf ears today with NOT underlying the call of being His disciple.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Dear Shrewd: what a ghastly picture of our God has been painted by churchianity. Mankind is broken, that brokeness extends to those who think they can choose to follow the Lamb of God in the withersoever of His mighty strides. "You did not choose Me" is ringing in my poor deaf ears today with NOT underlying the call of being His disciple.

Dear F.L., thank God for you brother!

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I've been known to go into stealth mode because I get frustrated with some of the repetitious arguments. I pop up every once in awhile to see what's shaking, post a reply or two then go back into stealth mode.

Not to worry, you do some of your best work in stealth mode. Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[FineLinen]

I came into Universalism kicking and screaming, so hopefully the resistance is a good sign. We were allies on a tongues topic. He seemed to warm up to me better with that common belief.

Dear Steve: many moons ago we were in a fellowship who sang songs (hundreds of them) that flowed by the Spirit of the living God. In many of those spiritual songs we sang of all creation coming home, home to the Father home to the Son, all creation is coming home.

Poor dumb F.L. is so slow, an awakening must happen. It has begun, but the outer laminar spheres of His glory has only begun to unfold!