Does the recently confirmed existence of UfO's pose a threat to Christianity?

[BobRyan]

Yes; it is pure speculation depending on the reality of UFO's.

Having the military come out with hard evidence regarding UFOs (as the only guys around that actually engage them in the air) -- makes it hard to dismiss "some day". Right now I think a lot of the public does not realize that there has been this shift in how the topic is being discussed. When it makes it into text books we will have more "problems".

 

[BobRyan]

Depends on if he physically saw them or not. The bible uses the word Heaven to mean not just the literal dwelling of God apart from this physical world, but it's also often used to mean the sky and space.

I agree that context is important. The details of a courtroom scene with myriads and myriads attending and the throne of God setup in heaven in Daniel 7 for example - make it more likely that in vision God can show people quite a bit.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Sept 2019 the U.S. Navy confirms existence of UFOs with hard evidence including visual sightings over a period of years -- and also tracking them on radar as well as engaging them in arial maneuver (dog fights) where they are not firing on anything just trying to follow/track it.

Does your view of Christianity view this as a threat to Christianity? a threat to evangelism in the context of a public being informed that UFO's are real and not merely swamp gas? Or will it increase the ability to evangelize the public in favor of Christianity in your view?

Many people who have been discussing this idea for a long time ... claim that publicly admitting to it would be a problem for Christianity.

================================================
Look at this post -- Monday at 7:32 PM #161 (CBS Inside Edition)
And this one -- Wednesday at 10:12 PM #190 (History)

CNN Sept 2019..

May 2019 ABC News GoodMorningAm George Stephanopoulos, Chris Mellon interview with lots of vid
2:35 What are you seeing?.. What I am seeing and what the experts we have brought in to view these tapes are seeing is something that is frankly baffling

• "It’s hard to understand – how do these vehicles maintain lift
• "How are they propelled? There are no wing surfaces and there is no exhaust.
• "So there’s nothing that we are familiar with that we have deployed in the air that has a power source other than fuel .. chemical energy power source.
• "These are so radically different than anything we are familiar with and their performance is so advanced and so sophisticated it is baffling (3:11)

– 4:35 "how do you explain all this full disclosure yet no reaction??

Christopher Mellon: former United States Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence (the third highest intelligence position at the The Pentagon) and later for Security and Information Operations. He formerly served as the Staff Director of the United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

--Fox news 00:00 Sep 19 starts with Navy official acknowledgement Sept 2019
00:35 this seems like a “change” in the way govt/navy is addressing the topic
1:25 so US Govt admitting … this is watershed moment.. but not getting public reaction? Why?

History Channel – all 3 primary DOD videos - source of videos finally identified (see 2 minute point in this next video)

================================

compilation -
ufo news 2019 Nov - Bing video

=====================================

How all this news - came about - in the first place.

3:15 len: Fox News Christopher Mellon May 2019

00:25“we know UFOs exist
02:13 – History channel clip from unexplained.
03:00 operating in and around military installations
- intelligently controlled vehicles
- Safety issues - near mid-air collision with our military pilots
- US Sovereignty being violated by vehicles of unknown origin

============================= burden of proof has shifted.

Michio Kaku 3:49 burden of proof shifts to UFO denier. “Game changer” fox news post it

Michio Kaku says the burden of proof has shifted to the government to demonstrate UFOs don't exist

0:54 “What has changed what is different now? We are at a tipping point the burden of proof has changed” It is now on those who want to make the case that UFOs are not what we are seeing. (Sept 2019)


But what are the odds that 15 to 20 years ago we and the russians and the Chinese had drones going 20 times the speed of sound and would not generate a sonic boom as they did so?
===========================
Consider this

1. We never say "swamp gas is not authorized to be in U.S. airspace"
2. We never say "swamp gas is a national security and safety problem"
3. we never say "incursion into our air space by some kind of aerial vehicle" is the kind of infraction that swamp gas is guilty of doing.

And yet... we have this.

==================================
From: https://www.history.com/news/navy-confirms-ufo-videos-real

Navy Confirms UFO Videos Are Real and Show Unidentified Aerial Phenomena
HISTORY

VIEW: Declassified: UFOs Captured on Video by U.S. Fighter Pilots

The news that the Navy considers the three videos—unofficially known as “FLIR1,” “Gimbal” and “GoFast”—as examples of UAPs first appeared on The Black Vault, a web site that specializes in declassified government documents. “FLIR1” is from November 14, 2004, and “Gimbal” and “GoFast” are from January 21, 2015. Joseph Gradisher, official spokesperson for the deputy chief of naval operations for information warfare, emphasized to HISTORY that these videos represent only some of the UAP sightings the Navy is investigating.

“Those three videos are just part of a larger effort by the U.S. Navy to try and investigate a series of incursions into our training ranges by phenomena that we’re calling unidentified aerial phenomena,” says Gradisher, who declined to say how many sightings there have been. “Our aviators train as they fight. So when they’re out there training, if there’s an incursion by any kind of aerial vehicle phenomena, whatever, it puts the safety of our aviators at risk as well as the security of our training operations.”

ADVERTISEMENT

READ MORE: Are UFOs a Threat to National Security? This Ex-U.S. Official Thinks They Warrant Investigation

To be clear, the Navy is not saying that these videos show evidence of alien life. Rather, the Navy is saying it can’t identify the phenomena in the videos. The Navy considers UAPs like these a national security and safety problem because they are not authorized to be in U.S. airspace. After a series of classified briefings featuring Navy pilots and lawmakers this summer, the Navy announced it had formalized its process for pilots and other personnel to report UAPs so that records of these sightings are more consistent, and therefore easier to investigate.

===========================
Regarding this post -- Monday at 7:32 PM #161 (CBS Inside Edition)
we have.
1. No flight control surfaces
2. Bounces when it changes direction like a ping pong ball bouncing off a board
3. Rapid 2 to 3 second acceleration to mach 28 past horizon - then back in a few seconds hovering again.
4. Accelerate through Mach 20, Mach 28 speeds without triggering sonic booms
5. Easily out maneuvers top of the line jet fighters.
6. Unauthorized incursions into our air space and we don't fire on them or do anything to inform them they are not authorized. They operate with impunity.

The UFO issue does not discredit Christianity at all. We even read of the vehicles of God around angels in the bible. And the enemy may also be involved with such things.

 

[Jamdoc]

I agree that context is important. The details of a courtroom scene with myriads and myriads attending and the throne of God setup in heaven in Daniel 7 for example - make it more likely that in vision God can show people quite a bit.

That's Daniel, not Ezekiel, Whether Ezekiel saw a vision or physically saw them can be open for interpretation but either way, he saw the Cherubim, they remotely controlled something that seems like flying saucers

 

[BobRyan]

That's Daniel, not Ezekiel, Whether Ezekiel saw a vision or physically saw them can be open for interpretation but either way, he saw the Cherubim, they remotely controlled something that seems like flying saucers

Possibly or maybe not. Either way - what he did not see is beings that God said evolved from bacteria and most likely not living in a sinless relationship with God.

The "problem" for Christian evangelism in the new "UFOs are real" world is more along those lines. More "its evolution that is true and the Bible that is false" when it comes to creation, the fall of mankind, the Gospel etc.

 

[BobRyan]

The UFO issue doesn’t not discredit Christianity at all. We even read of the vehicles of God around angels in the bible. And the enemy may also be involved with such things.

Ok - but as it turns out that those UFOs are not in fact the work of sinless angels (no account in history of UFO landing and Angel stepping out in the story of Samson, or Moses, or Baalam, or Paul, or Mary or Zacharias ... for example). -- it will be very difficult to make the case that "they are all of the devil".

The "weakness" of blind faith evolutionism is no video, no reproducible observed fact of it... but in the case of UFO and company - a lot of testable, viewable, reproducible.... real science validation. Will be very difficult to dismiss it all as "that's the devil".

 

[Jamdoc]

Ok - but as it turns out that those UFOs are not in fact the work of sinless angels (no account in history of UFO landing and Angel stepping out in the story of Samson, or Moses, or Baalam, or Paul, or Mary or Zacharias ... for example). -- it will be very difficult to make the case that "they are all of the devil".

The "weakness" of blind faith evolutionism is no video, no reproducible observed fact of it... but in the case of UFO and company - a lot of testable, viewable, reproducible.... real science validation. Will be very difficult to dismiss it all as "that's the devil".

But we do have scripture of Angels controlling flying saucers in Ezekiel We have scripture. Why is it a threat when scripture talks about these things and tells us what they are? Even if they are not angels, if they're not demons, then they would be creatures of God.
They don't threaten my faith.
Yes I know we differ on what methods and timelines we believe in God creating
But we both believe in the same God creating.

 

[BobRyan]

But we do have scripture of Angels controlling flying saucers in Ezekiel We have scripture.

True - they are doing something... with something in Ezekiel.

But we see Angels quite a bit in the Bible - without any machinery.

And you never find the Bible describing angels coming out of one of those machines in Ezekiel or anywhere else. So either some "details" are missing or that is not how the machines work in Ezekiel. I for one don't know which it is.

The bigger issue (machines or no machines) is the POV brought be anyone associated with what is now confirmed as "UFO"s. If they bring news that the Gospel is wrong, the Bible is wrong, they evolved from bacteria and are more advanced so "Earth world beware" etc.. well it would make the Gospel going to all the world that much more of a challenge.

Why is it a threat when scripture talks about these things and tells us what they are?

1. We have only skimpy details in Ezekiel when it comes to those machines.
2. The machines in Ezekiel are fully on the side of God, and the creation account in Genesis as opposed to 'Gospel opposed'.
3. It is not at all confirmed that the UFO stories fit into that category listed in #2 above.

 

[BobRyan]

Even if they are not angels, if they're not demons, then they would be creatures of God.
They don't threaten my faith.

Hitler was human -- And humans are a species created by God. Like Jim Jones - Hitler had a story to tell and people to deceive. If all the world had lined up with Hitler's POV it would most certainly have been a bigger problem than it already was.

Given that all intelligent life in the Universe is created by God - even the devil (who used to be the sinless unfallen Lucifer) - the real question is what agenda do they have ? Are they trying to undercut the Word of God, only now from a much more powerful bully-pulpit than the bad-guys before them?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hitler was human -- And humans are a species created by God. Like Jim Jones - Hitler had a story to tell and people to deceive. If all the world had lined up with Hitler's POV it would most certainly have been a bigger problem than it already was.

Given that all intelligent life in the Universe is created by God - even the devil (who used to be the sinless unfallen Lucifer) - the real question is what agenda do they have ? Are they trying to undercut the Word of God, only now from a much more powerful bully-pulpit than the bad-guys before them?

Ah yes, the old fallback argument resting on that bedrock of truth, Adolph Hitler.

 

[Kaon]

Sept 2019 the U.S. Navy confirms existence of UFOs with hard evidence including visual sightings over a period of years -- and also tracking them on radar as well as engaging them in arial maneuver (dog fights) where they are not firing on anything just trying to follow/track it.

Does your view of Christianity view this as a threat to Christianity? a threat to evangelism in the context of a public being informed that UFO's are real and not merely swamp gas? Or will it increase the ability to evangelize the public in favor of Christianity in your view?

Many people who have been discussing this idea for a long time ... claim that publicly admitting to it would be a problem for Christianity.

================================================
Look at this post -- Monday at 7:32 PM #161 (CBS Inside Edition)
And this one -- Wednesday at 10:12 PM #190 (History)

CNN Sept 2019..

May 2019 ABC News GoodMorningAm George Stephanopoulos, Chris Mellon interview with lots of vid
2:35 What are you seeing?.. What I am seeing and what the experts we have brought in to view these tapes are seeing is something that is frankly baffling

• "It’s hard to understand – how do these vehicles maintain lift
• "How are they propelled? There are no wing surfaces and there is no exhaust.
• "So there’s nothing that we are familiar with that we have deployed in the air that has a power source other than fuel .. chemical energy power source.
• "These are so radically different than anything we are familiar with and their performance is so advanced and so sophisticated it is baffling (3:11)

– 4:35 "how do you explain all this full disclosure yet no reaction??

Christopher Mellon: former United States Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence (the third highest intelligence position at the The Pentagon) and later for Security and Information Operations. He formerly served as the Staff Director of the United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

--Fox news 00:00 Sep 19 starts with Navy official acknowledgement Sept 2019
00:35 this seems like a “change” in the way govt/navy is addressing the topic
1:25 so US Govt admitting … this is watershed moment.. but not getting public reaction? Why?

History Channel – all 3 primary DOD videos - source of videos finally identified (see 2 minute point in this next video)

================================

compilation -
ufo news 2019 Nov - Bing video

=====================================

How all this news - came about - in the first place.

3:15 len: Fox News Christopher Mellon May 2019

00:25“we know UFOs exist
02:13 – History channel clip from unexplained.
03:00 operating in and around military installations
- intelligently controlled vehicles
- Safety issues - near mid-air collision with our military pilots
- US Sovereignty being violated by vehicles of unknown origin

============================= burden of proof has shifted.

Michio Kaku 3:49 burden of proof shifts to UFO denier. “Game changer” fox news post it

Michio Kaku says the burden of proof has shifted to the government to demonstrate UFOs don't exist

0:54 “What has changed what is different now? We are at a tipping point the burden of proof has changed” It is now on those who want to make the case that UFOs are not what we are seeing. (Sept 2019)


But what are the odds that 15 to 20 years ago we and the russians and the Chinese had drones going 20 times the speed of sound and would not generate a sonic boom as they did so?
===========================
Consider this

1. We never say "swamp gas is not authorized to be in U.S. airspace"
2. We never say "swamp gas is a national security and safety problem"
3. we never say "incursion into our air space by some kind of aerial vehicle" is the kind of infraction that swamp gas is guilty of doing.

And yet... we have this.

==================================
From: https://www.history.com/news/navy-confirms-ufo-videos-real

Navy Confirms UFO Videos Are Real and Show Unidentified Aerial Phenomena
HISTORY

VIEW: Declassified: UFOs Captured on Video by U.S. Fighter Pilots

The news that the Navy considers the three videos—unofficially known as “FLIR1,” “Gimbal” and “GoFast”—as examples of UAPs first appeared on The Black Vault, a web site that specializes in declassified government documents. “FLIR1” is from November 14, 2004, and “Gimbal” and “GoFast” are from January 21, 2015. Joseph Gradisher, official spokesperson for the deputy chief of naval operations for information warfare, emphasized to HISTORY that these videos represent only some of the UAP sightings the Navy is investigating.

“Those three videos are just part of a larger effort by the U.S. Navy to try and investigate a series of incursions into our training ranges by phenomena that we’re calling unidentified aerial phenomena,” says Gradisher, who declined to say how many sightings there have been. “Our aviators train as they fight. So when they’re out there training, if there’s an incursion by any kind of aerial vehicle phenomena, whatever, it puts the safety of our aviators at risk as well as the security of our training operations.”

ADVERTISEMENT

READ MORE: Are UFOs a Threat to National Security? This Ex-U.S. Official Thinks They Warrant Investigation

To be clear, the Navy is not saying that these videos show evidence of alien life. Rather, the Navy is saying it can’t identify the phenomena in the videos. The Navy considers UAPs like these a national security and safety problem because they are not authorized to be in U.S. airspace. After a series of classified briefings featuring Navy pilots and lawmakers this summer, the Navy announced it had formalized its process for pilots and other personnel to report UAPs so that records of these sightings are more consistent, and therefore easier to investigate.

===========================
Regarding this post -- Monday at 7:32 PM #161 (CBS Inside Edition)
we have.
1. No flight control surfaces
2. Bounces when it changes direction like a ping pong ball bouncing off a board
3. Rapid 2 to 3 second acceleration to mach 28 past horizon - then back in a few seconds hovering again.
4. Accelerate through Mach 20, Mach 28 speeds without triggering sonic booms
5. Easily out maneuvers top of the line jet fighters.
6. Unauthorized incursions into our air space and we don't fire on them or do anything to inform them they are not authorized. They operate with impunity.

Christianity talks about principalities, angels, archons, powers and rulers in high places. I suppose most thought that was just metaphor... The Word of God also talks about people running to and fro, and knowledge increasing. It is just unfortunate - given declassified documents, and the canonical, apocryphal and/or other texts - that it would take any Christian this long to realize UFOs exist as either high-technology, or interdimensional vehicles. That means there will have to be more stages of incredulity for the person to go through before s/he realizes the next thing.

All the scoffing for nothing, when the truth was always in plain sight.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Ok - but as it turns out that those UFOs are not in fact the work of sinless angels (no account in history of UFO landing and Angel stepping out in the story of Samson, or Moses, or Baalam, or Paul, or Mary or Zacharias ... for example). -- it will be very difficult to make the case that "they are all of the devil".

The "weakness" of blind faith evolutionism is no video, no reproducible observed fact of it... but in the case of UFO and company - a lot of testable, viewable, reproducible.... real science validation. Will be very difficult to dismiss it all as "that's the devil".

Oh I believe these things are real I saw one with my sister when I was about ten or eleven years old it was a metallic disc about 200 feet above us zig zagging over us and then it zipped off to the horizon with such speed I have never seen.

But they may be angelic beings or other beings either good or evil or both.
In the scripture we read of the angels of God and the chariots (vehicles in Hebrew) in the air when they were shown to the prophet.
But we also read of angels flying in mid heaven in revelation and in Ezekiel we read of wheels on their sides and beings connected to them heabenky ones.
It is interesting.

consider this

“ 2 Kings 6:17. And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.”

The word “chariots” in Hebrew means,

from 7392; a vehicle; by implication, a team; by extension, cavalry; by analogy a rider, i.e. the upper millstone:--chariot, (upper) millstone, multitude (from the margin), wagon

 

[LoveofTruth]

Ok - but as it turns out that those UFOs are not in fact the work of sinless angels (no account in history of UFO landing and Angel stepping out in the story of Samson, or Moses, or Baalam, or Paul, or Mary or Zacharias ... for example). -- it will be very difficult to make the case that "they are all of the devil".

The "weakness" of blind faith evolutionism is no video, no reproducible observed fact of it... but in the case of UFO and company - a lot of testable, viewable, reproducible.... real science validation. Will be very difficult to dismiss it all as "that's the devil".

We know the bible speaks of heavenly beings, so for sure they exist and they exist in heaven, which is also space as well so there are definitely beings it there. But nowhere does scripture imply that they were evolved. God reared then we see no evolution. The same way that some try to imply evolution if man here they may try to do so with other beings from heaven (space included) but they have no case for that either.
Evolution is a farce and false argument as has been shown to be so over and over .

 

[BobRyan]

We know the bible speaks of heavenly beings, so for sure they exist and they exist in heaven, which is also space as well so there are definitely beings it there. But nowhere does scripture imply that they were evolved.

True.

Just like Satan twists the statements of God and the creation of God in Genesis 3. He operates like a cancer , a virus, that needs a valid "host". Something God did/created ..etc to then corrupt or misrepresent. A grain of truth to build a mountain of error.

 

[BobRyan]

It appears to me that although the main news outlets and the U.S. Military in the form of the Navy - have come out with "its official" statements on UFOs (As noted in the OP) - the general public is able to easily ignore the statements as if "elections don't have consequences" or in this case "the existence of actual vehicles called UFO/UAP" that are making what is called "unauthorized incursions into US airspace" -- "does not have consequences". The general "solution" being "don't think about it and it wont matter much". Native Americans may have tried that solution for a while.

In any case - so much the better since it is much easier to evangelize in a "business as usual world".

However I suspect it won't take long for the "other shoe to drop".

 

[Jipsah]

Having the military come out with hard evidence regarding UFOs

Which you have apparently identified as flying saucers. I mean, if they were actually unidentified, they might still be high performance aircraft,observer error, a combination of both, or something else altogether.

Hint for you - any time an observer claims that anything "defied the laws of physics", then he has just become an unreliable observer. The laws of physics are laws of God, and nothing material "defies" them.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Hint for you - any time an observer claims that anything "defied the laws of physics", then he has just become an unreliable observer. The laws of physics are laws of God, and nothing material "defies" them.

Yes, but there are things about the universe that we don’t understand. Like a Jesus walking on water or other miracles.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes, but there are things about the universe that we don’t understand. Like a Jesus walking on water or other miracles.

Who does not understand Jesus walking on water and other miracles ?

A little child sees and hears and simply understands that God did that.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Who does not understand Jesus walking on water and other miracles ?

A little child sees and hears and simply understands that God did that.

How these things happen is not known just as the angels of God moving like lightning to and fro, they do that, but we don’t understand how. Perhaps done if the so called UFOs are neglect or vehicles of angels we read of the angels of God and the vehicles (chariots) in scripture

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How these things happen is not known just as the angels of God moving like lightning to and fro they do that but we don’t understand.

So?
Do you desire to understand God's Way ?