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Is there a denomination that accepts theistic evolution/old earth?

Jamdoc

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It all depends on whether they believe in the God of the Bible, who inspired Moses to write that He created the universe as we know it, in six days. Maybe there are people who believe in a different God who used evolution to form the universe. But the problem with that is that the God of the Bible said that He did not know of any other God besides Him.

There are many who have constructed a God from their own imagine and who fits within their limited theology and natural reasoning. Of course, one can use natural logic to say that the universe was form through an evolutionary process, because there is no other answer other than there being a God who created the whole mature universe in six days by just using His voice and commanding it into being from nothing. That is just not logical to the natural mind.

But then, the God of the Bible cannot be understood by using human natural reasoning, because it is limited to only the issues that exist in the natural, material universe. Anything outside of that is foreign to the natural mind. Any atheist will tell you that, and he will be right within the bounds of natural logic.

But the God of the Bible is outside of natural logic, and therefore cannot be understood that way. This is why the Bible says that the natural man cannot understand the ways of God because they are spiritually discerned. And that spiritual discernment can only be made through faith in what God has said in the Bible.

So, I would have no argument with most denominations being sympathetic to theistic evolution, because most of our religious organisations depend on natural logic and reasoning which they have substituted for the Holy Spirit whose input and revelation can come only through faith in what the Bible says as being true and correct in every detail.
The Andromeda galaxy is 2.5 million light years away from us and we can see it with the naked eye.
That means the light that is reaching us right now that we can see, took 2.5 million years to reach us.
That means that the universe is older than young earth creationism teaches and that Genesis is a simplified explanation, that satan is allowed to create things to trick us, or that God created a situation which would appear to disprove His own word to trick us.
Satan cannot create
God does not lie or trick.
 
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Your post is a most interesting one. However, it seems to me that any God who has the power to create and sustain the Universe is a big God, regardless of how long that He chose to take to finish his creative work.
Because the God of the Bible has limitless power - something that is totally above our imagination - then all things are possible to Him.
To say that God can take as much time as He likes, is quite true, but then, what is time to God? He lives outside of time. Therefore, He has the power to create the whole universe in a single moment, which I believe that He did. But he took six days to fashion our world into the most suitable environment for us.

The Bible verse, "One day to the Lord is as a thousand years", wasn't meant literally. It means that the Lord is not limited to our time. That was how the writer in his time and culture thought of God's timeframe. But today, we could quite easily say that one instant with God could be 50 billion years in our time system. God created the whole universe before setting the sun and moon in place, so there was no time until He lit up the sun and caused the earth and planets to orbit around it.

So those who limit God to human natural logical reasoning are subscribing to a God that is not the God of the Bible who has limitless power to create what and how He decides. And only those who honour the God of the Bible are those who are saved.
 
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Jonaitis

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So, I would have no argument with most denominations being sympathetic to theistic evolution, because most of our religious organisations depend on natural logic and reasoning which they have substituted for the Holy Spirit whose input and revelation can come only through faith in what the Bible says as being true and correct in every detail.

It is compromise, that's what this generation is doing. Eventually, there will be a huge wave of LGBT supporting members among us telling us how Scripture doesn't explicitly say that same-sex relations are at all condemned by God. It will be the so-called "majority" view. I know it will happen, and the few among us who stay faithful to the word will be ridiculed for believing an outdated worldview that "cannot be proven by Scripture." I've already heard of a group that is now trying to change the meaning of the Greek and Hebrew regarding this issue as an argument for homosexuality.
 
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Jonaitis

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(2 Peter 3:8)
Do you think our scale of time has ANY meaning to an infinite being?

But...if that infinite being stated that he created the world in six days, you must take it as he said. There is no ifs, ands or buts about this issue. You either accept the Scriptures or you reject it, there's no alternative option here.
 
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You are like me then. I totally agree with Baptists on communion, baptism, evangelism, and more, but no one can convince me just because God is powerful enough to make everything in less than a week He did that.
Yeah that's my angle. People think that not believing young Earth is a profession that God can't do something. It's never that. God can do anything, he decides to do things non instantaneously quite often, so to me it's not a stretch that creation was not done instantaneously.
What's FAR more of a stretch is the literal belief in 6 days roughly 6000 years ago and then "well God made the light from stars appear faster than it'd take normally" Why? to make us think he was lying? To deceive people into being atheists? GOD DOES NOT DECEIVE.
But we can observe starlight from millions of light years away.
 
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The Andromeda galaxy is 2.5 million light years away from us and we can see it with the naked eye.
That means the light that is reaching us right now that we can see, took 2.5 million years to reach us.
That means that the universe is older than young earth creationism teaches and that Genesis is a simplified explanation, that satan is allowed to create things to trick us, or that God created a situation which would appear to disprove His own word to trick us.
Satan cannot create
God does not lie or trick.
The Bible says that God has placed the stars and planets in their appropriately planned places in the universe. There is nothing to say that He didn't do that in an instant of time well before He formed the earth. I also know that there are many areas of the universe we cannot see because the light from them hasn't reached us yet. We don't know how large and extensive the universe is. We can see only those parts of it where the light from the stars and galaxies has reached us. I also have no doubt that the light we are seeing from the most distant ones is how they were millions if not billions of years ago.

But that doesn't prove anything other than that billions of years ago, God set all the parts of the universe in their set places and lit up the stars. And He did that in an instant. It doesn't really matter when He did it, because time means nothing to Him, because He lives outside of it.
 
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It is compromise, that's what this generation is doing. Eventually, there will be a huge wave of LGBT supporting members among us telling us how Scripture doesn't explicitly say that same-sex relations are at all condemned by God. It will be the so-called "majority" view. I know it will happen, and the few among us who stay faithful to the word will be ridiculed for believing an outdated worldview that "cannot be proven by Scripture." I've already heard of a group that is now trying to change the meaning of the Greek and Hebrew regarding this issue as an argument for homosexuality.
This is consistent with the Bible prophecy that there will be a major falling away before the end comes.
 
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The Bible says that God has placed the stars and planets in their appropriately planned places in the universe. There is nothing to say that He didn't do that in an instant of time well before He formed the earth. I also know that there are many areas of the universe we cannot see because the light from them hasn't reached us yet. We don't know how large and extensive the universe is. We can see only those parts of it where the light from the stars and galaxies has reached us. I also have no doubt that the light we are seeing from the most distant ones is how they were millions if not billions of years ago.

But that doesn't prove anything other than that billions of years ago, God set all the parts of the universe in their set places and lit up the stars. And He did that in an instant. It doesn't really matter when He did it, because time means nothing to Him, because He lives outside of it.
So then you are still arguing for an old universe. I thought you were arguing for a young one.
 
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This is consistent with the Bible prophecy that there will be a major falling away before the end comes.

"Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”

Some have understood this to be apostasy, but I believe it is lack of firmness in the faith.
 
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well I would ask if it was just baptists that absolutely refute any old earth creationism or theistic evolution model as a whole denomination but, it's definitely more widespread than that.
I guess I should ask if there are baptist churches out there that do accept older earth creation beliefs.
Because their stances on salvation, on communion, on baptism, on Mary, on well, basically one of the important things is less emphasis on men and more emphasis on God. Not worshiping Mary and saints and paying all this attention to hierarchy which breeds pride. Those are all compatible, it's the young earth that's incompatible.
 
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So then you are still arguing for an old universe. I thought you were arguing for a young one.
I'm suggesting possibilities apart from being locked into evolution as the only alternative to a six-day creation. All we have as a definite answer is that God inspired Moses to write that He created sun, moon, and world in six days. We either believe it or we don't.

The bottom line is that we can only understand the ways of God through faith in what He has inspired in the Bible. We cannot understand anything substantive concerning God and His ways by natural logical reasoning. That is why atheists and agnostics can never be persuaded through natural logical argument. They have no spiritual faculties to understand the world and universe any other way.

Logical reasoning concludes that God could have created the universe over a longer period of time. Christian faith concludes that God created the whole lot in six days. We are never going to marry the two.
 
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I can't be young earth, Genesis 1 seems like a "this is a gist of it but I'm not telling you specifics" overview of creation rather than a step by step instruction, allowing for what has been scientifically discovered about the nature of the universe and its age to hold true while still being God's very good creation. I see ongoing geological, cosmological, and biological processes that take very long times to do anything and it only makes absolute sense that those processes have been going on for a very long time, canyons are still being dug by rivers inch by inch, Niagra falls recedes its bank inch by inch over the years. There have been cataclysms such as global flood but there have also been slow processes that continue to go on every day, I have witnessed microevolution in laboratory settings. So there's only so much you can do believing in young earth creationism, and not just blind yourself to everything around you that says the universe is older than 6000 years. You either have to believe that Satan created the evidence (where in scripture has Satan ever been able to create anything?), or believe that God created things to appear older than they really are which seems like, deception. Why create things that would intentionally trick people? God doesn't lie or deceive!
So I can't be a young earth creationist, which puts me at odds with most pastors in most denominations of Christianity.
I believe in Old Earth. I still believe God created it, but I believe he did so using processes we still see at work today. I am not sure if I full blown believe in theistic macroevolution or progressive creationism (God creating things according to "kinds" in waves, which is more consistent with the fossil record, and microevolution being a tool within the genetic code that God created as a blueprint for all life). But microevolution I can't ignore at all. I can't just pretend that DNA just doesn't exist and we're all just scooped up dirt breathed upon by God. In Genesis 2 God even describes anesthesia and surgery to remove one of Adam's ribs (as a source of bone marrow and stem cells) to make Eve (Genesis 2:21-23). Which had always confused me as to why Genesis 2 didn't have God just speaking Eve into existence, but then I learned about stem cells present in bone marrow and the ribs are a flat bone which is one of your main sources of hematopoiesis, it suddenly made perfect sense, God GREW Eve from stem cells from Adam's bone marrow.
Is there any denominations that support old earth and either theistic evolution or progressive creationism?
I've been saved 48 years. I've not come across a denomination that subscribes to any particular view. Old earth is possible, but nothing like what evolutionists believe. The moon is moving away from the earth. If the earth was 4.5 billion years old, it would be nowhere to be seen.
I don't know why anyone should have a problem with God's creation. God is entitled to create as He see fits. If you break the body down, we are a few cents worth of chemicals and water - dirt. I am inclined to accept the idea of a pre-Adamic creation. I believe that Noah's flood was the second, not the first. Lots of believers disagree. If you want a well researched, well written and comprehensive scientific book on creation, Walt Brown has written it. You can get a .pdf of the latest edition as a download. Some of his hypotheses blow my mind and I am not sure that I agree with all of them. But he backs it up with a great deal of data. Watchman Nee wrote "The Mystery of Creation", which is where I get the idea of pre-Adamic creation from.
 
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well I would ask if it was just baptists that absolutely refute any old earth creationism or theistic evolution model as a whole denomination but, it's definitely more widespread than that.
I guess I should ask if there are baptist churches out there that do accept older earth creation beliefs.
Because their stances on salvation, on communion, on baptism, on Mary, on well, basically one of the important things is less emphasis on men and more emphasis on God. Not worshiping Mary and saints and paying all this attention to hierarchy which breeds pride. Those are all compatible, it's the young earth that's incompatible.
A sweeping statement. Just because you do not accept the 'young earth' position, does not make it wrong. The reality is that no one knows for sure.
 
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I've been saved 48 years. I've not come across a denomination that subscribes to any particular view. Old earth is possible, but nothing like what evolutionists believe. The moon is moving away from the earth. If the earth was 4.5 billion years old, it would be nowhere to be seen.
I don't know why anyone should have a problem with God's creation. God is entitled to create as He see fits. If you break the body down, we are a few cents worth of chemicals and water - dirt. I am inclined to accept the idea of a pre-Adamic creation. I believe that Noah's flood was the second, not the first. Lots of believers disagree. If you want a well researched, well written and comprehensive scientific book on creation, Walt Brown has written it. You can get a .pdf of the latest edition as a download. Some of his hypotheses blow my mind and I am not sure that I agree with all of them. But he backs it up with a great deal of data. Watchman Nee wrote "The Mystery of Creation", which is where I get the idea of pre-Adamic creation from.
The most important things that I get out of the Genesis 2 verses on Adam's creation is #1 that God imbued an immortal soul in us that other forms of life do not have, and #2, that God created us out of the same elements that comprise the Earth. That part is consistent with the organic chemistry on this planet, it even agrees with atheist scientists like Carl Sagan "we're all made of star stuff" all the elements that comprise us are found in the stars and in particular found in the crust of the earth, dirt as we'll usually put it. Now I don't know if I go so far as to believe in more than 1 global flood with mankind in it, there is evidence of multiple mass extinction events on the planet that predate mankind and the end of the last ice age kind of coincides with where Noah's flood may have been.
One thing is for certain. Omission from scripture does not mean it never happened. Genesis 1 is VERY short, a very very short amount of scripture for such an important thing as the creation of an entire universe. Abridged creation story is what it reads like, and there's a lot of room for omission and the more we observe in science the more things we find omitted. Is that of particular importance to God? Is it something He really wanted us to know about our origins? Probably not since they were omitted, or else we have to pretend they don't exist.
 
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I can't be young earth, Genesis 1 seems like a "this is a gist of it but I'm not telling you specifics" overview of creation rather than a step by step instruction, allowing for what has been scientifically discovered about the nature of the universe and its age to hold true while still being God's very good creation. I see ongoing geological, cosmological, and biological processes that take very long times to do anything and it only makes absolute sense that those processes have been going on for a very long time, canyons are still being dug by rivers inch by inch, Niagra falls recedes its bank inch by inch over the years. There have been cataclysms such as global flood but there have also been slow processes that continue to go on every day, I have witnessed microevolution in laboratory settings. So there's only so much you can do believing in young earth creationism, and not just blind yourself to everything around you that says the universe is older than 6000 years. You either have to believe that Satan created the evidence (where in scripture has Satan ever been able to create anything?), or believe that God created things to appear older than they really are which seems like, deception. Why create things that would intentionally trick people? God doesn't lie or deceive!
So I can't be a young earth creationist, which puts me at odds with most pastors in most denominations of Christianity.
I believe in Old Earth. I still believe God created it, but I believe he did so using processes we still see at work today. I am not sure if I full blown believe in theistic macroevolution or progressive creationism (God creating things according to "kinds" in waves, which is more consistent with the fossil record, and microevolution being a tool within the genetic code that God created as a blueprint for all life). But microevolution I can't ignore at all. I can't just pretend that DNA just doesn't exist and we're all just scooped up dirt breathed upon by God. In Genesis 2 God even describes anesthesia and surgery to remove one of Adam's ribs (as a source of bone marrow and stem cells) to make Eve (Genesis 2:21-23). Which had always confused me as to why Genesis 2 didn't have God just speaking Eve into existence, but then I learned about stem cells present in bone marrow and the ribs are a flat bone which is one of your main sources of hematopoiesis, it suddenly made perfect sense, God GREW Eve from stem cells from Adam's bone marrow.
Is there any denominations that support old earth and either theistic evolution or progressive creationism?

@Albion is correct - most denominations accept Old Earth Theistic Evolutionism. I will list some of them to give you an example of the scope we are dealing with:

- Anglicanism (all provinces, including the Anglican Church in Australia, even the extremely conservative Archdiocese of Sydney, the Anglican Church in North America, the Episcopal Church USA, the Church of England, the Church of Ireland, the Church in Wales, the Scottish Episcopalian Church, the Anglican Church of Ghana, the Anglican Church of South Africa, the Anglican Church of Tanzania, the Mar Thoma Syrian Church (which is in India, not Syria), the Church of South India, the Church of North India, the Church of Pakistan, the Anglican Province of Egypt, the Spanish Reformed Episcopal Church, the Anglican Church of Canada, the Anglican Church of New Zealand / Aotearoa, and many others).
- The American Baptist Convention
- The Assyrian Church of the East
- The Ancient Church of the East
- The Christian Church / Disciples of Christ
- The CCCC (Conservative Congregational Christian Conference; my denomination!)
- The Eastern Orthodox Communion (all members, including the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Serbian Orthodox, Georgian Orthodox, Romanian Orthodox, Bulgarian Orthodox, the Orthodox Church in America, the Antiochian Orthodox, the Ukrainian Orthodox, the Albanian Orthodox, the Latvian Orthodox, the Estonian Orthodox, the American Carpatho-Rusyn Orthodox Diocese, and some smaller Orthodox churches that do not have their own parishes in the US such as the Polish Orthodox, the Czech and Slovakian Orthodox, the Macedonian Orthodox, the Finnish Orthodox, the Japanese Orthodox, the Cypriot Orthodox, and the Orthodox churches of Alexandria and All Africa, Jerusalem, Sinai, Moldova, Bessarabia, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, and generally speaking, the Old Calendarists and Russian Old Rite Orthodox / Old Believers, who are in the US)
- The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
- The Evangelical United Brethren
- The Evangelical Lutheran Synod
- The Evangelical Covenant Order (of Presbyterians, disgruntled former PCUSA)
- The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (mostly)
- The Moravian Church
- The North American Lutheran Church (ex-ELCA)
- The Oriental Orthodox Communion (Armenian Apostolic, Coptic Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Eritrean Orthodox, Indian Orthodox/Malankara Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox)
- The Orthodox Presbyterian Church and The Presbyterian Church in America (in some parishes; your mileage will vary I think)
- The Presbyterian Church, USA
- The Reformed Church in America
- The Roman Catholic Church (including all Sui Juris Eastern Catholic churches such as the Ukrainian Greek Catholics, the Ruthenian Greek Catholics, of which Andy Warhol was a member, the Melkites, the Maronites, the Chaldeans, et cetera)
- The Southern Baptist Church (some congregations, it could be hit or miss)
- The Lutheran Church, Wisconsin Synod (same as above)
- The United Church of Christ
- The United Methodist Church

The Missouri Synod, Wisconsin Synod, and the Southern Baptist Church are congregational, but I haven’t heard of any of their congregations being especially fierce about this issue. I attended a Missouri Synod church for a while and never heard this mentioned; later I attended an ELCA parish. and this being before the recent leftward shift in that denomination, the content of the sermons was pretty much identical, as was the music (lovely in both cases). In the case of the SBC, the Presbyterian Church in America, and the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, its probably a good idea to just visit their website before attending; if it does not include any anti-evolution tracts or links to Answers In Genesis, you should be fine. You can also always ask.

There are several smaller denominations which I have not listed (but to be fair, the CCCC and the Moravians are pretty small, I just happen to like them), which should also be fine. I don’t know anything about Pentecostal or Charismatic churches, so I can’t help you there. I also don’t know anything about the Calvary Chapel, the Anabaptists, the Seventh Day Adventists or the more evangelical Quakers.

Also I would assume many non-denominational evangelical churches are not into the creationism debates.

I personally am a theistic evolutionist, because I prefer to use Alexandrian-style allegorical and typological-prophetic exegesis of the Old Testament to the literal-historical method of the School of Antioch, as did Cyril of Alexandria, Origen, Athanasius (who defended the doctrine of the Trinity and saved Christianity from the counterfeit Arian cult the Roman Emperors tried to replace it with in the fourth century), and Cyril (who preserved Christianity again, this time from Nestorius and his teaching that the man Jesus and the Word of God were separate, united in a personal union or a union of will), and so using this allegorical form of exegesis, I believe the Book of Genesis is an allegorical account of creation, and my view is strengthened by the fact that if we interpret all accounts of creation in every religion allegorically, the only one which corresponds to known science is the Christian account.

But at the same time, some members of my flock are creationists, and I fully respect the creationist perspective. And if asked about how the universe came to be, my answer is probably the same as theirs, “God created it from nothing.” The only disagreement is over how He created it. Many extremely pious Christian pastors and theologians who I deeply respect are also creationists, and I cannot fault someone for using the Historical-Literal form of interpretation associated with the School of Antioch (indeed, the orthodox interpretation of the Old Testament shared by most Christian churches is based on a mix or synthesis of historical-critical interpretation, of the kind favored by John Chrysostom and Theodore of Mopsuestia, and Alexandrian allegorical-typological-prophetic interpretation, favored by Origen, Athanasius, Cyril and others.

The important part of the Bible is the Gospel message, which we get from the entirety of the books in it; the Good News that we can, thanks to the atoning sacrifice of our Savior, and his victory over death on the Cross, receive the blessing of everlasting life if we believe in Him.
 
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But...if that infinite being stated that he created the world in six days, you must take it as he said. There is no ifs, ands or buts about this issue. You either accept the Scriptures or you reject it, there's no alternative option here.

Jesus Christ is, as the Creed and John 1 tells us, not merely the Son of God, but the uncreated Word of God, true God of true God, of one essence with the Father, one of three divine persons united in the Holy Trinity. And in His passion, beginning on Palm Sunday, Jesus Christ did create the world in its present form in six days; if we read Genesis 1 allegorically, we find an account of this recreation, which culminated in the recreation of man on the sixth day, something Pontius Pilate acknowledges when he says “Behold the man.” Jesus Christ, the incarnate God, became the new Adam, trampling down death by death. And on the seventh day, he rested in a tomb.

So I think the six day timeline in Genesis 1 is talking about both the epochs of prehistory, and in a more literal sense, the events of Holy Week, startimg with the appearance of the Light that is Christ in Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, and ending with His rest, before his resurrection, which is described in the Gospels.
 
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That's because many believe in a small God with not enough power to create a whole universe in six days and bring it to full maturity in that amount of time. But that is not the almighty and all-powerful God of the Bible.

It is interesting that just at the time of the White Throne Judgment, the Bible says that the earth and the heavens will flee away in a moment of time.

I thought I'd give that information, because that is what the Bible says in Revelation 20:11:
"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them."

This says that God will un-create the whole universe in an instant of time. I don't think we have any conception of the awesome power of God, to be able to create a whole universe in six days, and then when He is finished with it, un-create it in an instant of time. This is tremendous power above anything that we could ever imagine!

I concede readily that it is possible the universe was set in motion in six days, in a mature state; God being omnipotent could well do this.
 
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I concede readily that it is possible the universe was set in motion in six days, in a mature state; God being omnipotent could well do this.
If we view God as anyone less, we are not viewing the God of the Bible and we are following a God whom our omniscient God doesn't know about. The God of the Bible said that He is the only God there is, and and is no other (Isaiah 45:5). So if there are any other Gods around who come short of omnipotence, He doesn't know about them.
 
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But then, the God of the Bible cannot be understood by using human natural reasoning, because it is limited to only the issues that exist in the natural, material universe. Anything outside of that is foreign to the natural mind. Any atheist will tell you that, and he will be right within the bounds of natural logic.

This is entirely correct. The two great Cappadocian theologians, Basil the Great and his best friend Gregory of Nazianzus, described God as a “boundless sea of being”, and the “perfection of all virtues in their ultimate form” who is entirely incomprehensible to humans. What we know about God is only what He has revealed to us. We can also reason about God starting from these nuggets of revelation through negation; God has revealed in scripture what He is and is not, and from this, we can reason about God using the via negativa. For example, we can say God does not change, God cannot be circumscribed, God does not have flaws, God does not hate, God is incapable of sin, God is not subject to time (since God created time), and so on. But this is still kind of like a blind man trying to reason about the sunset.

The 14th century Greek theologian Gregory Palamas proposed a solution to this problem, which states that we can know God through His uncreated energies, but we can never understand His essence. The energies of God are the divine grace of the Holy Spirit, creation, et cetera. And of course we also know God through His incarnation, in which God the Son put on humanity, suffered, died, was buried, and on the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. God the Father is mysterious; we know He is love, and we know that he caused His voice to be heard at the baptism of His only begotten son, and we pray the Lord’s Prayer to Him and trust in Him, but mostly we know God through His Son, who lived and walked among us, and His Holy Spirit, who is everywhere present and fills all things, conveying to us divine grace.
 
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