Another thread on predestination (Eph 1)

[renniks]

Scripture says God GRANTS repentance ... a man can only repent himself as man repents

A man can only repent himself as a man repents .. what does that even mean?

 

[rnmomof7]

Funny I've read all those and never came to the conclusion that faith was irresistibly planted in people. Of course our willingness is necessary before God does the work of salvation. Why would we be told to increase our faith if it was all Gods doing? Why are some commended for their faith and some chastised for lack of faith? You are still claiming faith is a work. And it's still nonsense.

My bible says faith is a gift ... Eph2...Romans 3:27

 

[rnmomof7]

A man can only repent himself as a man repents .. what does that even mean?

Ask Judas ...aske Essau ...

 

[rnmomof7]

We sure have a different view of God.

God ordained the act of Judas and the crucification ... not to see God as working ALL THINGS is denying His omnipotence and elevating man to be Gods superior

 

[renniks]

My bible says faith is a gift ... Eph2...Romans 3:27

Mark 6:6 Jesus was amazed at their lack of faith.
Matt8:10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

So Jesus was amazed at the faith that he irresistibly gave him?

 

[rnmomof7]

When I look at my own life. I was resisting the Holy Spirit up to the point were I got proof that the Bible was true. Then I repented and got saved.

The Bible mentions people who did believe that Jesus was the Christ. Even so they didn't repent.

John 12
42 Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

So do you think you were smarter or more holy than the people that do not believe?

 

[rnmomof7]

Mark 6:6 Jesus was amazed at their lack of faith.
Matt8:10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

So Jesus was amazed at the faith that he irresistibly gave him?

"He marvelled.—The word is to be noted as bearing on the reality of our Lord’s human nature, and therefore on the necessary limits within which He, as being truly man, in spirit as well as body, vouchsafed to work. Whatever powers of prevision or insight into the hearts of men might belong to Him, they were not such as to exclude the wonder which men feel at that which comes to them unlooked for."
Mark 6 Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

 

[zoidar]

So do you think you were smarter or more holy than the people that do not believe?

Do you?

 

[renniks]

Ask Judas ...aske Essau ...

It makes no sense. I can repent only if I repent? Well, duh? Esau and Judas were both offered repentance, far as we know.

 

[renniks]

"He marvelled.—The word is to be noted as bearing on the reality of our Lord’s human nature, and therefore on the necessary limits within which He, as being truly man, in spirit as well as body, vouchsafed to work. Whatever powers of prevision or insight into the hearts of men might belong to Him, they were not such as to exclude the wonder which men feel at that which comes to them unlooked for."
Mark 6 Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

Lol, nice dance, but not convincing.

 

[renniks]

God ordained the act of Judas and the crucification ... not to see God as working ALL THINGS is denying His omnipotence and elevating man to be Gods superior

Where's it say God ordained Judas' betrayal?

 

[BBAS 64]

We have a different understanding of the ten commandments. We are to keep them and we can. Jesus lays out the heart of the ten commandments in the sermon on the plain and sermon on the mount. Then he says:

Matthew 7
“24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall.”

The only one who could keep the commandments perfectly is of course Jesus, keep them we can, perfectly we can't.

Good Day, Zoidar

Then I guess you need to explain why the Sacrificial guidelines for breaking of the law were given as part of the law..if there were meant to be kept and could be kept...

These words of Mine... Sermon on the Mount really need to start back in Matt 5. Has nothing to do with the law given to the nation of Israel. Really has to do with the reality of born again people as kingdom people are to be.

Great book on this would be:

Studies in the Sermon on the Mount [D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones]

 

[Redwingfan9]

? Seems like that's what you are doing. Re defining Faith as a work? I think you need to go read Galatians.

To will is to act to act is to work.

 

[renniks]

To will is to act to act is to work.

Being willing is synonymous with faith.

 

[BBAS 64]

There is something more and important to say. We can be believe in the fact that Jesus died for our sins and rose again and be good theologians and still not be born again. That's a truth that is hard for us to hear, but unless we have the Holy Spirit we can not see the Kingdom of God.

Good day, Zoidar

It is impossible for us to hear unless we have been raised from death to life, born from above by The Spirit according to the will of the father.

Jn 1 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I have heard I was saved when I started to believe in the truth of the cross. I don't believe I was. First I believed, then I repented and got born again and saved. Some here on CF believes my initial belief was the regeneration, but the regeneration took place after repentance not before.

No truth was reveled to you once you were grated the gift of repentance that leads to the knowledge of truth that is it purpose that is the explict reason it was granted to you by God. Your belief was also granted to you as well for the purpose of your believing.

I guess I would need to understand your views of regeneration and the means by which one is regenerated. I would say regeneration has effects that can not be denied and is an the only effective cause for it's effects. God has a purpose in regeneration that always comes to pass because only he is capable of do it.

Php 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake

I also like to add, salvation has very little to do with theology, but a lot to do with repentance.

I would say you have a very bad definition of the word Theology:

noun, plural the·ol·o·gies.
the field of study and analysis that treats of God and of God's attributes and relations to the universe; study of divine things or religious truth; divinity.
a particular form, system, branch, or course of this study.

Literally the the science of God.

In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

The problem is that people don't want to repent. That is where God's drawing is necessary.

Good Day, Zoidar

The issue is people can not repent unless (perhaps) God grants it to them.

The drawing of the Father in JN 6 has to do with mans inability to come to Christ unless the Father does drawing.

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Redwingfan9]

Being willing is synonymous with faith.

You're desperate to control your own faith. I just can't imagine trying to redefine basic words.

 

[renniks]

You're desperate to control your own faith. I just can't imagine trying to redefine basic words.

What word? Willingness?
"the quality or state of being prepared to do something; readiness."
Are you seriously suggesting people are saved against their will? Please provide biblical proof.

 

[zoidar]

Good Day, Zoidar

Then I guess you need to explain why the Sacrificial guidelines for breaking of the law were given as part of the law..if there were meant to be kept and could be kept...

These words of Mine... Sermon on the Mount really need to start back in Matt 5. Has nothing to do with the law given to the nation of Israel. Really has to do with the reality of born again people as kingdom people are to be.

Great book on this would be:

Studies in the Sermon on the Mount [D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones]

No one is perfect, we need sacrifice for sin.

Good day, Zoidar

It is impossible for us to hear unless we have been raised from death to life, born from above by The Spirit according to the will of the father.

Jn 1 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.




No truth was reveled to you once you were grated the gift of repentance that leads to the knowledge of truth that is it purpose that is the explict reason it was granted to you by God. Your belief was also granted to you as well for the purpose of your believing.

I guess I would need to understand your views of regeneration and the means by which one is regenerated. I would say regeneration has effects that can not be denied and is an the only effective cause for it's effects. God has a purpose in regeneration that always comes to pass because only he is capable of do it.

Php 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake




I would say you have a very bad definition of the word Theology:

noun, plural the·ol·o·gies.
the field of study and analysis that treats of God and of God's attributes and relations to the universe; study of divine things or religious truth; divinity.
a particular form, system, branch, or course of this study.

Literally the the science of God.

In Him,

Bill

It's by the Holy Spirit one is regenerated. By circumsision of the heart you get to know Christ. Jesus is no longer someone we know about, but we know him personally. I believe that is regeneration. Some way God leads you towards the point were you will have to make a decision to give your life to Christ or not, that's the drawing of God.

You are saying all this is God's doing and we got no part in this. I believe we have. I often use this analogy: God is the big wheel, we are the small wheel inside the big wheel. Like this our free will isn't independent of God's will.

I would say you have a very bad definition of the word Theology

What word would you suggest I use instead?

Good Day, Zoidar

The issue is people can not repent unless (perhaps) God grants it to them.

The drawing of the Father in JN 6 has to do with mans inability to come to Christ unless the Father does drawing.

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.

In Him,

Bill

I agree with this.

 

[Redwingfan9]

What word? Willingness?
"the quality or state of being prepared to do something; readiness."
Are you seriously suggesting people are saved against their will? Please provide biblical proof.

Your definition of will renders eph:1:5 meaningless. Having predestined us at the beginning, he was simply prepared to save us or ready to do so. That would be a ridiculous interpretation, especially in light of such strong language at the beginning of the verse. To will is to act, it is God who acts in our salvation, it is he who opens our cold dead heart.