Another thread on predestination (Eph 1)

[zoidar]

What do you think? I'm leaning to believe that God predestined us He knew would put our hope in him (v. 11-12).

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What do you think? I'm leaning to believe that God predestined us He knew would put our hope in him (v. 11-12).

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

1 Peter 1:2, KJV: "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." ... As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ."

 

[Yahkov]

"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers." - Romans 8:29

The answer is pretty much irrefutable.

 

[Call me Nic]

The elect were determined through the foreknowledge of God, that is, those who would believe in Christ (1 Peter 1:1-2); the elect were predestined unto an inheritance of holiness and adoption (Ephesians 1:4-5, Ephesians 1:11) via conformation to the image of the Son (Romans 8:28-30) through the grace of God (Titus 2:11) which is accessed by the individual through faith (Romans 5:1-2, Ephesians 2:8, Ephesians 1:13, John 3:16-17, John 5:24, etc.).

Christ says, "And whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely." He also says, "Whosoever believeth in him..."

The Bible clearly teaches that it is the responsibility of man, that is, whosoever will, to receive Christ by faith. And this is his promise, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." The Father had foreknowledge of who would come, that is, the elect; the elect would come to Christ, and were given to him by the Father from before the foundations of the world because it was the plan of God to save his people by the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[roman2819]

What do you think? I'm leaning to believe that God predestined us He knew would put our hope in him (v. 11-12).

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Besides Ephesians 1, we need to interpret chapters 2 & 3 as well. The 3 chapters explain predestination in 70 verses: It is corporate predestination, which means God offered redemption to Jews first, and then the Gentiles -- which together means everyone. God offers to redeem all, but in the context of the Scripture, each one must decide whether to repent and turn to Him. Predestination is so misunderstood because people are so awed by words such as "He predestine us" and fail to see context.

Ephesians was written to Gentile Christians. Speaking as a Jew, Paul identified with his people by using the adverb 'we' and 'us' to say how God first chose the Jews:

[Eph 1:4-11] just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world ... having been predestined according to the plan of him …. (12) in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, ...(13).. Weren't the Jews the first to hope in Jesus?

Then when referring to the Gentiles, the apostle used the adverb "you" and "you who were Gentiles":

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth …... Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and “uncircumcised” ….. excluded from citizenship in Israel… (Eph 2:13) ..... For He... has made the two groups one... His purpose was... in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross… (3:18)... This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ."

Before Jesus atonement, the Gentiles did not have access to Jehovah. But after Christ’s atonement, both Jews and Gentiles have access to God. This move has been pre-planned or predestined by God. Predestination just means to pre-plan something. More important is what did God pre-plan?

We know that initially Israel was the chosen people of God. After Christ's atonement, the apostles initially thought that God chose to save the Jews only. After Peter's vision, however, the Gentiles were allowed to believe too. But as more Gentile Christians started to outnumber the Jewish believers, the Jews resented it and insisted that Gentiles should observe Sabbath and circumcision. Jews also claimed that God had suddenly decided to offer redemption to the Gentiles after Israel rejected Jesus, implying that Gentiles were less favored. Refuting such allegation, Paul said that God does not show favoritism between the circumcised and uncircumcised [Galatians 2:6].

In Ephesians, the apostle refers to Gentiles as the Elect [Eph 1], thus placing them on equal footing as the Jews (who are chosen). Elect or chosen is a status, it does not mean being chosen to be saved individually.

In the beginning -- before the foundation of earth -- God chose the Jews, but now the Gentiles are also part of the Elect. "Before the foundation of the earth" just means "initially". It is unfortunate that some people are so awed by the words "before foundation of the earth" and "predestination" because they do not interpret in context.

 

[roman2819]

"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers." - Romans 8:29

The answer is pretty much irrefutable.

In context, there is a consistent interpretation for the predestination in the letters of Peter, Roman and Ephesians. Predestination means that God had predestined to offer redemption to everyone - Jews and Gentiles. Everyone who believe and repent is forgiven by God, granted eternal life in Christ Jesus. This is described in Ephesians 1,2 & 3:

Ephesians chapter 1,2,3 explain predestination in 70 verses: It is corporate predestination, which means God offered redemption to Jews first, and then the Gentiles -- which together means everyone. God offers to redeem all, but in the context of the Scripture, each one must decide whether to repent and turn to Him.

Ephesians was written to Gentile Christians. Speaking as a Jew, Paul identified with his people by using the adverb 'we' and 'us' to say how God first chose the Jews:

[Eph 1:4-11] just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world ... having been predestined according to the plan of him …. (12) in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, ...(13).. Weren't the Jews the first to hope in Jesus?

Then when referring to the Gentiles, the apostle used the adverb "you" and "you who were Gentiles":

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth …... Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and “uncircumcised” ….. excluded from citizenship in Israel… (Eph 2:13) ..... For He... has made the two groups one... His purpose was... in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross… (3:18)... This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ."

Before Jesus atonement, the Gentiles did not have access to Jehovah. But after Christ’s atonement, both Jews and Gentiles have access to God. This move has been pre-planned or predestined by God. Predestination just means to pre-plan something. More important is what did God pre-plan?

We know that initially Israel was the chosen people of God. After Christ's atonement, the apostles initially thought that God chose to save the Jews only. After Peter's vision, however, the Gentiles were allowed to believe too. But as more Gentile Christians started to outnumber the Jewish believers, the Jews resented it and insisted that Gentiles should observe Sabbath and circumcision. Jews also claimed that God had suddenly decided to offer redemption to the Gentiles after Israel rejected Jesus, implying that Gentiles were less favored. Refuting such allegation, Paul said that God does not show favoritism between the circumcised and uncircumcised [Galatians 2:6].

In Ephesians, the apostle refers to Gentiles as the Elect [Eph 1], thus placing them on equal footing as the Jews (who are chosen). Elect or chosen is a status, it does not mean being chosen to be saved individually.

In the beginning -- before the foundation of earth -- God chose the Jews, but now the Gentiles are also part of the Elect. "Before the foundation of the earth" just means "initially". It is unfortunate that some people are so awed by the words "before foundation of the earth" and "predestination" because they do not interpret in context.

In Romans 9:11, God said He loves Jacob and hate Esau. God was referring to these 2 persons only, specifically, so how does this extend to chosen - and not being chosen - of everyone else? How does Romans 9:11 become a blanket statement ??? Seriously.

In Romans, Paul as a Jew saluted Israel's heritage, but he went on to say the new order is here, things have changed, get used to it.

Romans 9:18-23: Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth .... " While the Jews were shocked that God offered redemption to Gentiles, Paul said that God could choose to have mercy on Gentiles. It does NOT mean that God has mercy on some particular individuals and choose them. In the larger context of the Scripture, each one has to decide to repent and turn to God.

"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son... He who predestined, He also justifies" [Romans 8:29] means that God foreknew that He would offer redemption to the Gentiles. Although they used to be considered uncleaned by the Jews, however, after Christ's atonement, the Gentiles can choose to be conformed to Christ. They are also justified by faith in Jesus.

 

[redleghunter]

Besides Ephesians 1, we need to interpret chapters 2 & 3 as well. The 3 chapters explain predestination in 70 verses: It is corporate predestination, which means God offered redemption to Jews first, and then the Gentiles -- which together means everyone. God offers to redeem all, but in the context of the Scripture, each one must decide whether to repent and turn to Him. Predestination is so misunderstood because people are so awed by words such as "He predestine us" and fail to see context.

Ephesians was written to Gentile Christians. Speaking as a Jew, Paul identified with his people by using the adverb 'we' and 'us' to say how God first chose the Jews:

[Eph 1:4-11] just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world ... having been predestined according to the plan of him …. (12) in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, ...(13).. Weren't the Jews the first to hope in Jesus?

Then when referring to the Gentiles, the apostle used the adverb "you" and "you who were Gentiles":

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth …... Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and “uncircumcised” ….. excluded from citizenship in Israel… (Eph 2:13) ..... For He... has made the two groups one... His purpose was... in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross… (3:18)... This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ."

Before Jesus atonement, the Gentiles did not have access to Jehovah. But after Christ’s atonement, both Jews and Gentiles have access to God. This move has been pre-planned or predestined by God. Predestination just means to pre-plan something. More important is what did God pre-plan?

We know that initially Israel was the chosen people of God. After Christ's atonement, the apostles initially thought that God chose to save the Jews only. After Peter's vision, however, the Gentiles were allowed to believe too. But as more Gentile Christians started to outnumber the Jewish believers, the Jews resented it and insisted that Gentiles should observe Sabbath and circumcision. Jews also claimed that God had suddenly decided to offer redemption to the Gentiles after Israel rejected Jesus, implying that Gentiles were less favored. Refuting such allegation, Paul said that God does not show favoritism between the circumcised and uncircumcised [Galatians 2:6].

In Ephesians, the apostle refers to Gentiles as the Elect [Eph 1], thus placing them on equal footing as the Jews (who are chosen). Elect or chosen is a status, it does not mean being chosen to be saved individually.

In the beginning -- before the foundation of earth -- God chose the Jews, but now the Gentiles are also part of the Elect. "Before the foundation of the earth" just means "initially". It is unfortunate that some people are so awed by the words "before foundation of the earth" and "predestination" because they do not interpret in context.

Why the false antithesis? The Bible teaches both individual and corporate (group, peoples) election.

 

[redleghunter]

What do you think? I'm leaning to believe that God predestined us He knew would put our hope in him (v. 11-12).

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

The text leading up to verses 11-12 does not indicate God waited for us to choose us and then predestine us. Frankly that would be negating 'He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world." Meaning before Creation, before time, space and matter (Genesis 1:1).

 

[zoidar]

The text leading up to verses 11-12 does not indicate God waited for us to choose us and then predestine us. Frankly that would be negating 'He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world." Meaning before Creation, before time, space and matter (Genesis 1:1).

Agree, it would have to be by foreknowledge or by some reason we can't know.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I'm leaning to believe that God predestined us He knew would put our hope in him

That's an interesting order of cause and effect. You're saying that he chose the ones he knew he was going to get, anyway. That's not a real choice.

We like to do something similar with a bossy coworker, here. Whatever we know she's already about to do, that's what we tell her to do. It galls her to think that it looks like she's obeying us. In your view, you are that bossy coworker, and God asserts the appearance of control by predestining what he already knows you're going to do. You accuse God of a pretense?

 

[redleghunter]

"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers." - Romans 8:29

The answer is pretty much irrefutable.

Unless you put verse 28 into play:

28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

We have God's Sovereign purpose before verse 29. Makes all the difference. God calls according to His purpose. Do we see the purpose of God defined by the will of man 'accepting' or 'choosing' God? Not indicated in the text and frankly, with a Holy God quite a concept is absurd.

In verse 29:

29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

The best you are going to get out of the above verse using the theory that God "chooses and predestines us based on us choosing Him" is that He saw some innate quality of some sort in us, to choose us. And accordingly not everyone has this so-called innate quality, which puts you back to what you are trying to avoid....God being unfair. Because the verse, if we choose your definition of foreknowledge means God chooses those who have some quality not seen in all human beings. At this point you would have to adopt a version of limited atonement to boot.

What the Bible actually teaches is God is Sovereign in all His decisions and actions. Throughout human history God chose individuals for specific purposes, certain peoples (Israel) and chose individuals for salavation.

Foreknew: proginōskō

The KJV translates Strong's G4267 in the following manner: foreknow (2x), foreordain (1x), know (1x), know before (1x).

STRONGS NT 4267: προγινώσκω
προγινώσκω; 2 aorist 3 person singular προέγνω; perfect passive participle προεγνωσμενος; to have knowledge of beforehand; to foreknow: namely, ταῦτα, 2 Peter 3:17, cf. 2 Peter 3:14, 16; τινα, Acts 26:5; οὕς προέγνω, whom he (God) foreknew, namely, that they would love him, or (with reference to what follows) whom he foreknew to be fit to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, Romans 8:29 (τῶν εἰς αὐτόν (Χριστόν) πιστεύειν προεγνωσμενων, Justin Martyr, dialog contr Trypho, c. 42; προγινώσκει (ὁ Θεός) τινας ἐκ μετανοίας σωθήσεσθαι μέλλοντας, id. Apology 1:28); ὅν προέγνω, whose character he clearly saw beforehand, Rom. 11: (1 Lachmann in brackets), Romans 11:2 (against those who in the preceding passages from Rom. explain προγινώσκειν as meaning to predestinate, cf. Meyer, Philippi, Van Hengel); προεγνωσμένου, namely, ὑπό τοῦ Θεοῦ (foreknown by God, although not yet 'made manifest' to men), 1 Peter 1:20. (Wis. 6:14 Wis. 8:8 Wis. 18:6; Euripides, Xenophon, Plato, Herodian, Philostr., others.) ​

 

[redleghunter]

Agree, it would have to be by foreknowledge or by some reason we can't know.

Which within the context of Ephesians chapter 1 we do not see "foreknowledge" used at all and nowhere is foreknowledge used as a 'crystal ball' into the future. God indeed will see 'our day of salvation.' Nowhere in Scriptures is it indicated He waits for that day to elect us and predestine us.

 

[redleghunter]

The elect were determined through the foreknowledge of God, that is, those who would believe in Christ (1 Peter 1:1-2); the elect were predestined unto an inheritance of holiness and adoption (Ephesians 1:4-5, Ephesians 1:11) via conformation to the image of the Son (Romans 8:28-30) through the grace of God (Titus 2:11) which is accessed by the individual through faith (Romans 5:1-2, Ephesians 2:8, Ephesians 1:13, John 3:16-17, John 5:24, etc.).

I guess you can get there by stringing verses together. But don't see how God waited for our conversion to elect us. Of course God knows what will happen. It does not mean any of those verses teach that is how He elects. In fact it does not. I guess it makes us feel better when we have some control over the Sovereign designs of God. Considering we are dead in our trespasses, sons and daughters of wrath before God makes us alive in Jesus Christ. Are you saying God sees Himself deciding to make alive some and not others and by default that is election?

When Paul says 'before the foundations of the Earth' that was before Creation, time, space and matter. Not "God saw through time we would choose Him so he chooses us.' Completely backwards.

What's the problem with treating the text as is? God chooses first every time. He's Sovereign and there really is not something special about us having to choose first.

God did choose Abraham and not Omar. Or did God look to the future to see if Abraham or Omar would choose Him?

 

[redleghunter]

If we interpret in context, there is a consistent interpretation for the predestination in the letters of Peter, Roman and Ephesians. Predestination means that God had predestined to offer redemption to everyone - Jews and Gentiles. Everyone who believe and repent is forgiven by God, granted eternal life in Christ Jesus. This is described in Ephesians 1,2 & 3:

If we are truly consistent we won't accept the false dichotomy or false antithesis. Just because the Bible teaches God elects or chooses corporately does not mean the Bible does not teach individual election. In fact the Bible teaches both!

 

[com7fy8]

Throughout human history God chose individuals for specific purposes,

And it could be He chose someone who did not have the qualities needed and who was not willing to obey Him! Jonah is an example.

We "all" started as "children of wrath, just as the others," our Apostle Paul does say, in Ephesians 2:2.

So, I find it interesting how a number of people suppose that certain evil people would just change their own evil hearts to trust in Jesus, while other "children of wrath" would not. How could evil people make exact opposite choices, one choosing Jesus and the other staying with Satan?? I mean . . . out of their own evil character . . . how could one make such a good choice, while the other continues with Satan?

I don't think a person of evil character is going to get oneself to choose Jesus.

So, it was God's choice that we will be conformed to the image of Jesus > Romans 8:29.

But if someone claims he or she has chosen Jesus, is this person now choosing to become like Christ and to live and love like Jesus? Or, is the person only claiming to be saved and guaranteed Heaven, but without getting the real correction which prepares us to spend eternity with Jesus? I have known people who claim to be saved, but they do not talk about how God is changing them to be like Jesus. Instead, all they say is they are "sinners saved by grace", but they do not talk about how grace changes us to be and live and love like Jesus > they do not talk about how Jesus in us has us loving like He was loving on the cross >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

 

[bling]

If we are truly consistent we won't accept the false dichotomy or false antithesis. Just because the Bible teaches God elects or chooses corporately does not mean the Bible does not teach individual election. In fact the Bible teaches both!

Could God decide, before time began, to save all those who will accept His charity as charity?

How is that not predestining who will be saved?

If you say God could not decide to do that are you limiting God’s power?

Could the God before time began know everything the God (really Himself) at the end of time knows?

Would the God at the end of time know everything about all humans choices as unchangeable historic fact?

 

[zoidar]

Which within the context of Ephesians chapter 1 we do not see "foreknowledge" used at all and nowhere is foreknowledge used as a 'crystal ball' into the future. God indeed will see 'our day of salvation.' Nowhere in Scriptures is it indicated He waits for that day to elect us and predestine us.

True, yet we can't exclude it. Is there anywhere in NT someone is called elect before he/she is a believer?

My personal belief is that God elects us before time through foreknowledge and through his will and power. So for me it's both God's foreknowledge and God drawing us by His Spirit, making His will come true.

 

[BBAS 64]

What do you think? I'm leaning to believe that God predestined us He knew would put our hope in him (v. 11-12).

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Good day, Zoidar

No need to go that far...

5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

His adoption of us is not based on merit, but according to His kind will. Now that adoption has real effects, but has nothing at all to do with us in a causality way at all.. He adopted [Verb]... (we are adopted (passive object).

In Him,

Bill

 

[zoidar]

Which within the context of Ephesians chapter 1 we do not see "foreknowledge" used at all and nowhere is foreknowledge used as a 'crystal ball' into the future. God indeed will see 'our day of salvation.' Nowhere in Scriptures is it indicated He waits for that day to elect us and predestine us.

Concerning the "crystal ball". Jesus used foreknowledge to know that Peter would deny him thrice. It was hardly God's doing, was it?

 

[zoidar]

Good day, Zoidar

No need to go that far...

5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

His adoption of us is not based on merit, but according to His kind will. Now that adoption has real effects, but has nothing at all to do with us in a causality way at all.. He adopted [Verb]... (we are adopted (passive object).

In Him,

Bill

Not merit, but maybe because of repentance?