Whistle blower Identified?

[Erik Nelson]

As for your second question, no, not only Ukraine can investigate Burisma. First, the US can subpoena records through US courts -- and they can largely enforce them if the company has offices in the United States (at least to the point of "shutting down" their US business). Additionally, they can request the help of Ukraine. In this case, the FBI/DoJ sends agents to Ukraine and they carry out their investigation -- they are assigned Ukrainian officers to assist the US investigators, their Ukrainian officer helps them with warrants or other support.

Lutsenko has testified (as yet un-dis-proven) that his efforts to supply information to the US were obstructed

Again, how could US authorities initiate an investigation, when Lutsenko's "whistleblower complaint" was silenced overseas?

Who claimed there were no national security implications? It wasn't me. The issue is that no evidence has been found against the Biden's.

US policy makers, up to POTUS, are allowed to have foreign financial ties ? Even questionable ones like oft-investigated Burisma ?

we knew Shokin was corrupt.

We know that the WB has "political bias" against Trump in favor of his 2020 opponent?

I do have issues with the President asking for Ukraine to investigate -- not the US investigating with the aid of Ukraine.

Why?

Nobody else was asking the Ukraine to investigate, true fact?

POTUS was the "last in line", true fact?

So POTUS asked Ukraine to investigate, true fact?

You. are. seriously. saying. it. is. a. crime. to. (even) ask. that. corruption. be. investigated?

Other than POTUS, everyone else is acting as if that is the case?

And Biden is not a US citizen?

Biden is not an ordinary US citizen -- he's a POTUS candidate

higher standards?

closer scrutiny?

Why can you demand Trump be intensely scrutinized... but similar scrutiny can't be applied to Biden??

Don't the American people have a right to know about POTUS-level corruption allegations before they're elected?

his claims of innocence and being railroaded by Biden carry as much weight as most criminals who claim they were "railroaded" by law enforcement?

you support the ACLU ?

​

Yes, Trump said that on the call. And then he never, not once, talked to AG Barr about it (and even a right wing news site for you).

stop stop stop

Trump said "AG [Barr]"...
Zelensky countered "Guiliani"...

Zelensky was politely telling the President he was more comfortable dealing with Giuliani? Trump should have ignored that request for Giuliani? "No, Zelensky, can't help you there, AG only or we can't move forward with these investigations into US ELECTION FRAUD and possible POTUS CANDIDATE CORRUPTION..."

Instead, as the article further points out, Barr was somewhat upset that he was mentioned with Giuliani, who was not investigating for the US (but for Trump personally). Again, it only matters if Trump mentions Barr if he actually has him open an investigation and tell him to call Pres. Zelensky. Since Trump did not, it is clear what the true intention was -- and it was not to start any type of official investigation into the Bidens. That is called abuse of power, particularly since it was against a political rival.

please. respond. to. the. fact. that. Zelensky. requested. Guiliani. by. name.

Trump was accommodating Zelensky's preference

• The NSC told him to make the call, he called
• Zelensky told him he preferred Giuliani, he accommodated

what was being claimed by everyone at the time (other than Shokin) is that he was not investigating Burisma and had not for over six months.

Shokin. was. the. Chief. Prosecutor.

Who best knows the Chief Prosecutor's prosecution cases:

1. The Chief Prosecutor himself
2. 3rd parties (with obvious political bias)

?

Again, it is improper for the President to ask a foreign government to investigate a US citizen, period. If he had evidence of wrongdoing he should turn that over to his AG and have him start the investigation. The AG can then request the aid of that country to help with the investigation, with the US guiding the investigation.

The President asked for an investigation into Burisma & 2016 election meddling, not Hunter Biden's private family vacations

And if Giuliani had acquired evidence of wrongdoing, you agree he would have turned it over to the AG?

More to the point, you do not send your personal lawyer to meet with the President of that country to investigate -- you instead talk to your AG, which Trump did not do.

please. respond. to. the. fact. that. Zelensky. requested. Guiliani. by. name.

Trump was accommodating Zelensky's preference

• The NSC told him to make the call, he called
• Zelensky told him he preferred Giuliani, he accommodated

​

Trump sends his personal lawyer -- to the best of my knowledge (based on statements from the Justice Department) there is still no official investigation into the Bidens.

Cart before the horse

No investigation yet because:

• Shokin was fired (before Biden's Burisma could be investigated)
• Lutsenko was fired (before his elections meddling evidence could reach the AG)
• Trump is being fired (distracting everyone from the foreign financial ties issue)

Please. tell. me. how. Biden. gets. investigated. in. actual. practice.?

You are telling me, to my face, that -- after every attempt to investigate Biden is quashed -- that therefore after that Biden is not under investigation, and so is innocent

Burn down the police department & courthouse, no investigation & trial... so totally innocent!

what Trump was trying to do was not to bring either Biden to justice, rather the evidence points to this being a political "witch hunt" (to use Trump's words) to hurt Biden in the polls; one spearheaded by his personal lawyer and a couple of corrupt "pals" that are currently awaiting trial.

please. please. please. acknowledge. that. Zelensky. requested. Giuliani. over. against. instead of. the AG ?

Can the President of the United States have his own trusted set of "eyes & ears", or must the President of the United States passively sit back and gulp down whatsoever he or she is spoon fed by "The Experts" ?

Does POTUS have to tie their shoes just so, comb their hair exactly right? Do they have a curfew, lights out by 9pm?

Giuliani was trying to help an investigation into foreign financial & political influences into US Politics

Are you accusing Giuliani of manufacturing evidence? Cause otherwise he was just accepting Zelenksy's request for his help

Zelensky trusts Trump & Guiliani more than the AG, please tell me that fact registers with you?

 

[Gigimo]

Perhaps he's not so feckless? He might indeed have a great deal of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]...

The original one seems to have been stuffed into a closet you don't really hear much other than speculation on who he was, that screams feckless.

 

[Gigimo]

Either 1. unsuccessfully, or 2. such "dirt" can be manufactured.

I guess that's why some folks who predicted Trump would win in 2016 are predicting it will happen again and by a larger margin this time, they probably see the American voters are figuring that little tidbit out. (They should it has been front and center for quite awhile now)

Even some of the Dems have admitted they have to make up dirt on him... "We can't beat him so we have to impeach him"

 

[KCfromNC]

Are you listening to yourself?

• There is some evidence that 2016 election interference came from (through?) Ukraine

More than some evidence - enough evidence to put in prison the guy who steered pro-Russian Ukraine money into Donald's inauguration fund.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...35fd5c-595d-11e9-9625-01d48d50ef75_story.html

I don't think this is exactly the kind of stuff the RNC would want to bring into the conversation, though, given Donald's current issues with attempting to get Ukraine leadership to help him with another personal issue.

 

[KCfromNC]

monies donated to Clinton (through the foundation), during the 2016 election cycle

Clinton lost. You need to get over it.

 

[KCfromNC]

I thought the meetings and everything has been secret.

I don't know why anyone would think this, especially given the prompt release of written statements from various witnesses. It might be time to find better sources of information on news and current events.

 

[TLK Valentine]

And you didn't even list possibility 3. successfully because such "dirt" exists

You acknowledge that is a possibility?

Of course it's possible... but even if it is the case, for a president to withhold foreign aid to extort a foreign government to get it is an impeachable offense.

You're accusation of "manufacturing evidence" is hypothetically possible, but (at present) base-less.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

1. First, it's "your"
2. I accused Donald of no such thing, although I certainly wouldn't put it past him.

All I did was acknowledge the possibility... something you were ideologically prohibited from doing.

 

[KCfromNC]

As a general question, how, in principle, can the President "abuse his office" to "get dirt on an opponent"...

In this particular case, Donald attempted to trade a weapons deal to a foreign government in exchange for a public announcement that they were investigating that opponent.

That's not "in principle" though, that's what actually happened.

 

[KCfromNC]

And Biden might have gotten them (Ukraine) to hide "dirt" ?

Maybe, maybe not. I haven't seen any evidence of this, so it sounds like wild speculation.

What we do know for sure is that Donald was intent on using a weapons deal to get them to announce that there was dirt. I'm not sure why anyone would want to focus on the wild speculation rather than the stuff which actually happened.

Especially in a thread where this subject is totally off-topic.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Zelensky trusts Trump & Guiliani more than the AG, please tell me that fact registers with you?

Zelensky prefers to deal with Donald personally (and secretly) rather than through US government channels.

Indeed, that does register...

 

[TLK Valentine]

The original one seems to have been stuffed into a closet you don't really hear much other than speculation on who he was, that screams feckless.

I'm sure it screams whatever Donald demands you hear...

 

[TLK Valentine]

I guess that's why some folks who predicted Trump would win in 2016--

Why do Donald's followers continually obsess over 2016? We're talking about his recent actions; let the past go.

 

[Gigimo]

Why do Donald's followers continually obsess over 2016? We're talking about his recent actions; let the past go.

So you think I'm a Donald follower because I think what the Dems are doing is foolish and because I read what people like Donald Luskin has to say

 

[TLK Valentine]

So you think I'm a Donald follower because I think what the Dems are doing is foolish and because I read what people like Donald Luskin has to say

I think you're a Donald follower because you echo the words of his other followers so faithfully... but let's not make this about you; let's make it about Donald's impeachable offenses... and the attempt to expose and intimidate those who testify against them.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Clinton lost. You need to get over it.

LOL

Why do Donald's followers continually obsess over 2016? We're talking about his recent actions; let the past go.

you should let Congress and Clinton know that.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Zelensky prefers to deal with Donald personally (and secretly) rather than through US government channels.

Indeed, that does register...

You mean, "deal with the President through Giuliani" ?

You make it sound like the two of them (Trump & Zelensky) were meeting furtively behind closed doors privately together just them...

actually other parties were involved, please acknowledge?

and POTUS = US government channel, please acknowledge?

 

[Hank77]

the topic was Ukraine and monies they gave to campaigns. So unless Disney is Ukrainian.

Well, at least my post was fact and sourced which is more than you can say about this -

monies donated to Clinton (through the foundation), during the 2016 election cycle. 165,000,000 that we know of

 

[Erik Nelson]

Of course it's possible... but even if it is the case, for a president to withhold foreign aid to extort a foreign government to get it is an impeachable offense.

You are assuming guilt when you have no evidence much less proof:

US Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor has confirmed the Ukrainians — and the general public — didn’t know about the aid freeze until August, after the July 25 call between Trump and Zelensky.​

Schiff Impeachment Witness: Trump Call to Ukraine Originated from Nat'l Security Staffers​

BTW, who says the POTUS cannot wield his office to motivate investigations into corruption involving high-level American politicians?

If it looks like there is "dirt" to be dug up, you are saying, the POTUS is powerless to dig?

It is not illegal for Biden to have multiple family financial ties to foreign firms (some with shady histories)… but it is illegal for Trump to even try to look into those foreign financial ties to a 2020 US POTUS candidate?

That is "Law of the Land" according to you?

• Biden puts his hands out to eastern Europe and the far east -- no foul
• Trump tries to slap his hands (and see what's he's got therein) -- foul! oh, the horror!

 

[TLK Valentine]

LOL



you should let Congress and Clinton know that.

what for? Only Donald's followers keep bringing it up.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You mean, "deal with the President through Giuliani" ?

You make it sound like the two of them (Trump & Zelensky) were meeting furtively behind closed doors privately together just them...

Of course not... That's what Giuliani (the President's personal -- not government -- attorney) is for.

Donald has needed a new bagman ever since Cohen went to prison.

actually other parties were involved, please acknowledge?

and POTUS = US government channel, please acknowledge?

But of course... They do Donald's business over the table, while Giuliani does his business under it.

Every criminal enterprise needs a legitimate-looking front.