THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

[Contenders Edge]

Would you go so far as to call them antichrist?

Do you even know who the Anti-Christ is who is to come? Do you know from what people and nation he will originate? Can you tell me if any of the mentioned princes of England are him?

 

[jgr]

That was simply a definition for what the second century generation believed concerning the status of the Church

Awaiting a quote from Augustine's writings showing that he espoused any type of replacement.

 

[jgr]

Do you even know who the Anti-Christ is who is to come? Do you know from what people and nation he will originate? Can you tell me if any of the mentioned princes of England are him?

Your definition:

"I was not just talking about antichrists but the Anti-Christ who is identified as a ruler and to which the title of prince would apply."

According to your definition, they qualify.

 

[Contenders Edge]

Awaiting a quote from Augustine's writings showing that he espoused any type of replacement.

Here is your starting point: https://www.tms.edu/m/tmsj19c.pdf

 

[Contenders Edge]

Your definition:

"I was not just talking about antichrists but the Anti-Christ who is identified as a ruler and to which the title of prince would apply."

According to your definition, they qualify.

Then you really do not know what defines the Anti-Christ because you do not know the scriptures that define him.

 

[jgr]

Here is your starting point: https://www.tms.edu/m/tmsj19c.pdf

I'm looking for a quote, not a starting point.

What are you afraid of?

 

[jgr]

Then you really do not know what defines the Anti-Christ because you do not know the scriptures that define him.

The only Scriptures that define him/them are in John's epistles.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Do you even know who the Anti-Christ is who is to come? Do you know from what people and nation he will originate? Can you tell me if any of the mentioned princes of England are him?

Princes of Israel [Northern Kingdom/Gentiles] and princes of Judah[Southern Kingdom] are both mentioned........
Who are these princes?

Eze 22:6
“Look, the princes of Israel: each one has used his power to shed blood in you.
Eze 45:8
“The land shall be his possession in Israel; and My princes shall no more oppress My people, but they shall give the rest of the land to the house of Israel, according to their tribes.”
Eze 45:9
‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Enough, O princes of Israel! Remove violence and plundering, execute justice and righteousness, and stop dispossessing My people,” says the Lord GOD.
----------------------------
Hos 5:1
Hear this, O priests! Take heed, O house of Israel! Give ear, O house of the king!
For yours is the judgment, Because you have been a snare to MizpahAnd a net spread on Tabor.
Hos 5:10
“The princes of Judah are like those who remove a landmark;
I will pour out My wrath on them like water
===================
I have a thread on Daniel 11 concerning the great North and South Civil War that I can see as 1st century Israel and Jerusalem, including the Jewish Revolt and might even include Armageddon in Revelation. A little far fetched perhaps, but no more than any other interpretations out there......

Daniel 11 and the great North vs South War

Daniel 11 is a great chapter in the Bible and it appears to be talking about the "great warfare" in between the North and South.

Daniel 10:1
In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed to Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, even a great warfare<6635>
and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.

First, let's show the verses where King of the North and King of the South are used.

The phrase "King of the North/Israel/Gentiles" and "King of the South/Judah/Judea/Jerusalem" are used only in Daniel 11 of the OT. Both of those are sometimes used in the same verses
=================
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:6 Wars rumors of Wars

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman/North: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish/South: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70

 

[Contenders Edge]

I'm looking for a quote, not a starting point.

What are you afraid of?

The quote is contained within the starting point. If you wish to refute me, the source I provided should provide you the means.

 

[Contenders Edge]

Princes of Israel [Northern Kingdom/Gentiles and princes of Judah[Southern Kingdom] are both mentioned........
Who are these princes?

No one identified as the prince that shall come nor are they the Messiah who already came.

 

[jgr]

The quote is contained within the starting point. If you wish to refute me, the source I provided should provide you the means.

Awaiting a quote which does not exist.

 

[Contenders Edge]

The only Scriptures that define him/them are in John's epistles.

The scriptures have more to say about him but it is John's epistles that give him the title of the Anti-Christ and according to the context of his epistles, the title of the Anti-Christ was used quite often amongst the Church in his day and what the rest of the scriptures do say about him clearly earned him the title, even if it does not appear elsewhere in the scriptures.

 

[Contenders Edge]

Awaiting a quote which does not exist.

It exists and I provided the link to it. You just don't want to make use of it.

 

[jgr]

The scriptures have more to say about him but it is John's epistles that give him the title of the Anti-Christ and according to the context of his epistles, the title of the Anti-Christ was used quite often amongst the Church in his day and what the rest of the scriptures do say about him clearly earned him the title, even if it does not appear elsewhere in the scriptures.

It does not appear elsewhere in the Scriptures, therefore it is not the Scriptures elsewhere which have given him the title.

 

[jgr]

It exists and I provided the link to it. You just don't want to make use of it.

There is no quote of Augustine therein espousing replacement theology.

 

[nolidad]

The exact same fulfillment is found below in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.
For some strange reason you ignored that part of my post, and attempted to make it only about Dr. Varner.


Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

......................................................................

Was the summary of Daniel 9:24 fulfilled below by Christ during the first century?


Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

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It doesn't matter how many footnotes in a bible it may be found in. The answer isdid it occur as was prophesied

According to you then- Since AD 34 according to your preacher and according to they way he privately interprets the Bible:

1. Jews have finished the Transgression.

2. They have made an end of sins


3. Israel has made reconciliation for iniquity (remember 490 years is for Israel and Jerusalem unless that is code as well)

4. Israel has anointed the Most Holy! Now the only problem here is that to teh average Jew of Daniels and Jesus day- the most holy was the holy of holies! Also seeing how Daniel was inspired to write Messiah the Prince two verses later, why would he write this meaning Messiah when it was not considered so by the people?

5. Bring in everlasting Righteousness- as this is for Israel, are you suggesting that Israel now is everlastingly righteous, and are you also saying God does not remember the sins and iniquities of Israel since 34 AD? WOW!

 

[Contenders Edge]

It does not appear elsewhere in the Scriptures, therefore it is not the Scriptures elsewhere which have given him the title.

But scripture has given him the title nonetheless, even if it only appears in the epistles of John.

 

[Contenders Edge]

There is no quote of Augustine therein espousing replacement theology.

Did you even search the entire source provided you? If you had, you would have found it.

 

[nolidad]

I have listened to that video many times, and never heard what you are claiming above.

Christ was anointed by His Father from heaven at His baptism during 27 AD.

Because Bible scholars have found 4 Passovers in the Gospels, many believe the earthly ministry of Christ was about 3 1/2 years.

That puts His sacrifice at Calvary during 30 AD.

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people for about 7 years before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.
This brings us up to 34 AD.

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Well you were not listening carefully then and looking ath e prophesy.

Daniel 9:24-27 King James Version (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Let me put the end of 25 and the beginning of 26 into modern English. After 483 years (49 years and 434 years) Jerusalem will be built and Messiah the Prince!

After those 483 years Messiah will be killed, but not for Himself. Well your preacher said the 483 years started at Jesus' Baptism by John in 27 AD (that is when He said the most holy was anointed by Israel), a re translation of what Baptism is. So sometime after Jesus baptism he had to die! Why would God speak in such specific time frames throughout this prophecy and then go dark as to meaning that after 483 years actually meant 3 1/2 more years? That is foolish!

And that whole business about Paul? So now you accept "about" 7 years as being close enough to fulfill prophesy? Sorry but that won't do for a God who is perfect and will not lie and could have said "around" 7 years!

 

[jgr]

Did you even search the entire source provided you? If you had, you would have found it.

I searched it. It does not exist.