The Reprobate Doctrine

[DamianWarS]

**Votes are anonymous **


Who here believes in the reprobate doctrine?

For those who don't know,the reprobate doctrine states that the creation (Mankind) can be cut-off from Gods grace before a persons physical death,so we do not have until our last breath on earth to reconcile with God and be born again,we can be given over to a reprobate mind and rejected by God whilst still alive. The reason for this is being enemies of God or ''Haters of God'' as defined in Romans 1. Also, there seems to be a link between being a reprobate and homosexual:


Romans 1
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.




Thoughts?

v24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another

v26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones

v28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

what this speaks to me is if you want to see how far the rabbit hole goes you can jump in and find out and there's no safety line to pull you back in. Roms 1 tells us no one is without excuse and we willfully reject the natural when we engage in these actions. look at the world wars? can people become more depraved? God surrenders his own will so that we may bolster our own.

 

[Daniel C]

v24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another

v26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones

v28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

what this speaks to me is if you want to see how far the rabbit hole goes you can jump in and find out and there's no safety line to pull you back in. Roms 1 tells us no one is without excuse and we willfully reject the natural when we engage in these actions. look at the world wars? can people become more depraved? God surrenders his own will so that we may bolster our own.

Well you and I are not even using the same Bible version,which is key here.

Mine says "reprobate mind" yours says "depraved mind" and there's a major difference between the two. One says rejected,the other says corrupt.

So what this says to me is God rejects people who are haters of the most high.

 

[DamianWarS]

Well you and I are not even using the same Bible version,which is key here.

Mine says "reprobate mind" yours says "depraved mind" and there's a major difference between the two. One says rejected,the other says corrupt.

So what this says to me is God rejects people who are haters of the most high.

I govern no translation, I simply quoted the more widely accepted (for this word) which would be irresponsible to ignore.

it says God gives them over to their "[rejected] minds" it does not say God rejects them (there's a major difference between the two)

this is paired in the same line with those who "did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God" so knowledge is likened to the mind and we have God's knowledge pitted against mans foolishness so those who do not seek true knowledge are given over to false knowledge (mans) which is the meaning of this word gr. "adokimos", "failing to pass the test, unapproved, counterfeit".

this a perfectly acceptable translation since a "depraved mind" would be an example of this. other translations say "debased mind", "foolish thinking", "corrupt mind" even "He let their useless minds rule over them" the unpopular word is "reprobate" but still a good translation (just misunderstood). This is not a direct rejection it is the release into the sinful nature. This verse is paired with v26 and v24 all of which says God "gives them over" to "sexual impurity" and to "shameful lusts" then finally to "[rejected] minds". Clearly, although the actions of release is from God and certainly there is a form of foresaking God is releasing them over to their own sinful natures.

 

[eleos1954]

I do not know what doctrine you are talking about. Clearly there are people with a reprobate mind. There are many other terms that can be used also in this regard. Infidel for example. We are to have the mind of Christ. We are to have the Divine thoughts of God. There are at least 365 verses in the Bible that talks about this. We could fill up a dictionary with all the different qualities that make up the mind of Christ. This is what we should be teaching in our school system. Not wasting time making students learn things like the capital of the states and the names of all the presidents.

We could fill up a dictionary with all the different qualities that make up the mind of Christ. This is what we should be teaching in our school system

Although on the surface this may seem like a good idea ... in reality it is not.

Church & state (public school systems) need to remain separate.

It is the responsibility for Christian parents (guardians) to teach the their children about Christ.

Deuteronomy 6:7
And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.

Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Psalm 78:5-7
He established a testimony in Jacob and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers to teach to their children, that the next generation might know them, the children yet unborn, and arise and tell them to their children, so that they should set their hope in God and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments;

 

[joshua 1 9]

Church & state (public school systems) need to remain separate.

The reason is because there is no general agreement among Christians. So there are going to be fights on what to teach. The simple solution is to fight it out and come to a general agreement over what everyone can accept and believe in. This is what we do with Science today. So treat the Bible the same way you would treat anything that science examines. They call this the scientific method. Francis Collins has written a good book on Theistic Evolution. Something like this maybe a good place to start. The atheists do not mess to much with Collins. They tend to leave him alone. So at least we have this much that is universally accepted to some degree. There is a lot of discussion about evolution in our science books so theistic evolution should be discussed also with it's own section. Could be that would be the only chapter some people will read in their biology book.

This is why we will rule and reign with Christ for 1,000 years doing the Kingdom Era. Because these situations are easier to deal with than a lot of people imagine. We can not continue to let the devil mess with our schools the way he has. We have to kick the devil out and bring God into our school system.

Lets start with the Golden Rule. Treat others the way you want to be treated. Who is going to object to this? Is there someone that is going to claim that we should not treat others the way we want others to treat us? If so then let the discussion begin on why they think we should not teach the Golden Rule to our children.

 

[eleos1954]

The reason is because there is no general agreement among Christians. So there are going to be fights on what to teach. The simple solution is to fight it out and come to a general agreement over what everyone can accept and believe in. This is what we do with Science today. So treat the Bible the same way you would treat anything that science examines. They call this the scientific method. Francis Collins has written a good book on Theistic Evolution. Something like this maybe a good place to start. The atheists do not mess to much with Collins. They tend to leave him alone. So at least we have this much that is universally accepted to some degree. There is a lot of discussion about evolution in our science books so theistic evolution should be discussed also with it's own section. Could be that would be the only chapter some people will read in their biology book.

This is why we will rule and reign with Christ for 1,000 years doing the Kingdom Era. Because these situations are easier to deal with than a lot of people imagine. We can not continue to let the devil mess with our schools the way he has. We have to kick the devil out and bring God into our school system.

Lets start with the Golden Rule. Treat others the way you want to be treated. Who is going to object to this? Is there someone that is going to claim that we should not treat others the way we want others to treat us? If so then let the discussion begin on why they think we should not teach the Golden Rule to our children.

I understand and appreciate your zeal ... however ... biblical teachings are too divided .... what really should be taught in our school system is our country's constiution and correct history of our country.

 

[Sketcher]

Well you say that but Romans 1 gives us a pretty good guideline.

It doesn't. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 explicitly said that God redeemed people who did similar things. The only Biblical examples of people who can be considered beyond the reach of God's grace while still alive are Judas (John 17:12) and certain Pharisees (Mark 3:22-30).

 

[Daniel C]

I govern no translation, I simply quoted the more widely accepted (for this word) which would be irresponsible to ignore.

. . . .

Translations is key here. In fact this doctrine can be changed by editing one word-reprobate.

God works through his word,so if you don't have his word you don't have God.

So in regard to me having a KJV and someone else using a different version there's inevitably going to be different words,so different words will have different meanings. There's no way we can get an Amen on anything if the words in our Bible don't have the same meaning and that's before the more difficult job of interpretation.

Based on what I read in my KJV I see reprobates as rejected by God,permanently.

 

[Daniel C]

It doesn't. . . .

Yes it does.

Just to clarify, what do you think ''reprobate'' means in a Biblical context?

 

[Sketcher]

Yes it does.

Just to clarify, what do you think ''reprobate'' means in a Biblical context?

I believe it means something that has fallen short, which is in line with Strong's definition.

I do not believe that there are any sins that cannot be forgiven, except one (Mark 3:28-30). I believe that misusing the word "reprobate" in Romans 1 to contradict Jesus and say that fornicators, homosexuals, coveters, murderers, backbiters, deceivers, boasters, rebellious children, God-haters, and inventors of evil cannot repent or be forgiven, is very sinful. It maligns the word of God, and it promotes hate among the faithful, and it drives away people who might have been otherwise redeemed. Even if God redeems those lost people anyway, putting such a stumbling block in their path is not without penalty (Luke 17:1-2).

 

[renniks]

Well you admit you don't accept the doctrine and you even classified the unsaved as the same group as reprobate,so I note your view and will end it here.

He makes an excellent point. We are all haters of God left to our own devices. I am of the opinion that some people are unredeemably evil, because they choose to side with Satan. God certainly gave them the chance for salvation, tho.
I'm not sure what you even mean by the reprobate doctrine...is it basically Calvinism?

 

[Daniel C]

I believe it means something that has fallen short, which is in line with Strong's definition. . . .

Well the people who translated the KJV meant it as reject. So the reprobate mind is a rejected mind from God.

Not sure how you feel about that though.

 

[Daniel C]

He makes an excellent point. We are all haters of God left to our own devices. I am of the opinion that some people are unredeemably evil, because they choose to side with Satan. God certainly gave them the chance for salvation, tho.
I'm not sure what you even mean by the reprobate doctrine...is it basically Calvinism?

God rejects people because of their vile affections. So this implies a free-will action renniks,no Reformed person would support free will.

The reprobate is not a victim but a criminal and the punishment is rejection from God. Who are you or I to contend with Gods will for man?

 

[Sketcher]

Well the people who translated the KJV meant it as reject. So the reprobate mind is a rejected mind from God.

Not sure how you feel about that though.

I'm going with Strong's definition. Strong's uses the KJV for its English text.

 

[Daniel C]

I'm going with Strong's definition. Strong's uses the KJV for its English text.

So your translation would be ''given over to a fallen short mind'' rather than ''reject mind'', yeah right. Another fraudulent back to the Greek site you got their.

 

[Sketcher]

So your translation would be ''given over to a fallen short mind'' rather than ''reject mind'', yeah right. Another fraudulent back to the Greek site you got their.

If going to the Greek is fraudulent, the King James is fraudulent. My issue is with the interpretation and subsequent abuse of that word, not its use.

 

[Daniel C]

My issue is with the interpretation and subsequent abuse of that word, not its use.

Your personal feelings are not the issue, the reprobate doctrine in Romans 1 is the issue.

If you do not want to discuss it directly and stay on topic,please feel free to find another discussion.

 

[Sketcher]

Your personal feelings are not the issue, the reprobate doctrine in Romans 1 is the issue.

If you do not want to discuss it directly and stay on topic,please feel free to find another discussion.

I have been discussing it. Homosexual lust and relations are not the only sin in that chapter that the reprobate do, verses 28-32 make this clear. Jesus made it clear that every sin except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would be forgiven (Mark 3:28-30), therefore all of the sins mentioned in Romans 1 are forgivable. And in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul talks about believers who used to do some of the same things mentioned in Romans 1, including homosexual practices, but were now washed, sanctified, and justified by God himself. Therefore, the doctrine that those who do the sins in Romans 1 have gone so far that they cannot be forgiven is false. Paul doesn't say in Romans 1 they cannot be forgiven. Paul does say that they deserve death, and in the following chapters of Romans, he goes on to discuss God's solution to save such sinners from death, which is through Christ.

 

[renniks]

God rejects people because of their vile affections. So this implies a free-will action renniks,no Reformed person would support free will.

The reprobate is not a victim but a criminal and the punishment is rejection from God. Who are you or I to contend with Gods will for man?

Well, we aren't the ones who get to judge who is irrevocably reprobate and who isn't. God's will for man is that all be saved and made like Christ.
1 Timothy 2:3-4
1 Thessalonians 4:3
But he will destroy the wicked.
Psalm 145:20
If God gives some over to their wickedness, we should have no doubt that is is because they have left him no other option.

 

[HatGuy]

Therefore, the doctrine that those who do the sins in Romans 1 have gone so far that they cannot be forgiven is false

+1