Some random discussion on evolution...

[the iconoclast]

You're very late to the party, that comnent wasn't directed to you and your request has nothing to do with my post. Are you just looking for an argument?

Hey hey sir

Fair enough and please excuse me.

 

[xianghua]

You also know that water-features can be man-made, that doesn't mean natural waterfalls are designed. We've been through this fallacious argument before.

since there is no known natural process that can produce gears- this isnt the same as waterfalls.

 

[pitabread]

since there is no known natural process that can produce gears- this isnt the same as waterfalls.

So how were the gears found in Issus coleoptratus designed?

You never did answer that question.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

since there is no known natural process that can produce gears- this isnt the same as waterfalls.

I love it. When it suits you, you are happy to claim one process is not the same as another different process. Yet most of your argumentation relies on equivocation and claiming that different process are the same.

Thank you for a magnificent demonstration of your double standards.

 

[xianghua]

So how were the gears found in Issus coleoptratus designed?

You never did answer that question.

i dont know and its irrelevant. we can only know that it was the result of design.

 

[pitabread]

i dont know and its irrelevant. we can only know that it was the result of design.

It's completely relevant. You are claiming that biological gears can only be the result of design. Therefore the onus is on you to explain how that is possible.

So again, how were the gears found in Issus coleoptratus designed?

If you can't answer the question then we clearly have no reason to think they are designed.

 

[xianghua]

If you can't answer the question then we clearly have no reason to think they are designed.

so you can say the same about unknown watch. since you can know how it was designed (its possible that someone made it by a new unuqie process) you cant conclude design?

 

[pitabread]

so you can say the same about unknown watch. since you can know how it was designed (its possible that someone made it by a new unuqie process) you cant conclude design?

We're not talking about watches. We're talking about biological gears in Issus coleoptratus.

How were they designed? Show us a plausible mechanism.

Besides, we can have pre-existing knowledge that humans design and build watches. We don't have the same knowledge about Issus coleoptratus. You still need to explain how Issus coleoptratus was designed (or at least the biological gears in Issus coleoptratus).

Why can't you explain that?

 

[xianghua]

We're not talking about watches. We're talking about biological gears in Issus coleoptratus.

How were they designed? Show us a plausible mechanism.

Besides, we can have pre-existing knowledge that humans design and build watches. We don't have the same knowledge about Issus coleoptratus.

yes we do. we know that gears are made by intelligent. so again your objection isnt realistic. we dont need to know how gears are made in order to know that they were designed.

 

[pitabread]

yes we do. we know that gears are made by intelligent.

We know that human manufactured gears found in human manufactured objects are made by humans. Should we then conclude that Issus coleoptratus was made by humans?

so again your objection isnt realistic. we dont need to know how gears are made in order to know that they were designed.

This is how humans make gears:

Do you think the biological gears in Issus coleoptratus were made in the same way? Was Issus coleoptratus built in a factory by machines?

 

[Speedwell]

yes we do. we know that gears are made by intelligent. so again your objection isnt realistic. we dont need to know how gears are made in order to know that they were designed.

Do you really not see what a dumb argument that is, or are you so anxious to shove your religion up our noses that you don't care? "Gears are designed so they are either made by humans or they are made by some other intelligent agency using a magical process which I don't have to describe to you but which you must believe in anyway."

 

[pitabread]

Do you really not see what a dumb argument that is, or are you so anxious to shove your religion up our noses that you don't care? "Gears are designed so they are either made by humans or they are made by some other intelligent agency using a magical process which I don't have to describe to you but which you must believe in anyway."

Maybe xianghua really thinks that insects are built in factories?

 

[Ophiolite]

. we dont need to know how gears are made in order to know that they were designed.

So how do we know how that they were designed? All I have heard from you (for years) is a claim that some things "were obviously designed", or "could not have occurred naturally". Did I miss something more substantial from you?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

since there is no known natural process that can produce gears...

Evolution has produced an approximation in the partial gearing that synchronizes the back legs of certain planthoppers. One could also argue that it had produced functional approximations of gears at the nanoscale; but you're right, they're clearly not like human-designed gears - no indication of design, despite their functional similarity.

 

[pitabread]

Evolution has produced an approximation in the partial gearing that synchronizes the back legs of certain planthoppers. One could also argue that it had produced functional approximations of gears at the nanoscale; but you're right, they're clearly not like human-designed gears - no indication of design, despite their functional similarity.

Weren't you paying attention? Those gears were made in a factory by humans.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

yes we do. we know that gears are made by intelligent. so again your objection isnt realistic. we dont need to know how gears are made in order to know that they were designed.

How do we know gears "are made by intelligent"? Please show us the evidence we use, then show us the exact same evidence in your insect's gears.

 

[xianghua]

We know that human manufactured gears found in human manufactured objects are made by humans.

so according to you some gears arent the result of design. ok. but who has the burdon of proof in that case?

 

[xianghua]

So how do we know how that they were designed?

for the simple fact that every gear we know about is the result of design and we never seen any natural process that can produce gears.

 

[Speedwell]

so according to you some gears arent the result of design. ok. but who has the burdon of proof in that case?

No the assertion is that in some cases we cannot determine whether the gear-like structures were the product of design or not. Intelligent design is an unfalsifiable proposition. It can never be ruled out, but its presence cannot always be demonstrated.

 

[pitabread]

so according to you some gears arent the result of design. ok. but who has the burdon of proof in that case?

We have a known process (evolution) which we know changes populations of biological forms over time. Scientists can (and do) even investigate how specific features evolved via that process. Something like the 'gears' in Issus coleoptratus would make an interesting feature to study.

Now if you want to argue they are the product of design, then the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that. You can start by showing us a plausible mechanism for such design.