Romans 6 is a perfect example of missing critical truth!

[BCsenior]

For years, I’ve been trying to convince people of
what Paul is saying in Romans 6.

17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin (before),
yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Yes, after becoming BACs … they were set FREE from having to be slaves of sin!
Technically, after becoming BACs … they became slaves of righteousness!
But for these BACs … in practice, this certainly was NOT the case!

22 But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God.
Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. (NLT)
Yes, after becoming BACs … they were set FREE from having to be slaves of sin!
Technically, after becoming BACs … they became slaves of God, living holy lives!
And Paul is hinting of what they should be doing!
But for these BACs … in practice, this certainly was NOT the case!

The proof of their STILL being slaves of sin, of NOT being faithful BACs

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not!
6 we should no longer be slaves of sin.
11 reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin,
but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead,
and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
16 … you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
whether (slaves) of sin leading to death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?
19 so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The whole of Romans 6 is Paul’s plea for BACs to STOP being slaves of sin!
Being a slave of sin results in death … spiritual death, not physical death.
The last part of 6:23 applies to faithful BACs who have NOT …
left the faith, fallen from grace, rejected God’s free gift of grace!

Other warning verses about rejecting God’s grace

“God’s will is for you to be holy … live in holiness and honor …
God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives. So, anyone who
refuses to live by these rules is rejecting God.” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-8)

“God has given us everything we need to live a godly life … work hard to prove
that you really are among those God has called and chosen … It would be better
if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then
reject the command they were given to live a holy life” (2 Peter 1:3, 1:10, 2:21)

“God’s discipline is always good for us, so that we might share in his holiness …
work at living a holy life, for those who are NOT holy will NOT see the Lord …
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking.” (Hebrews 12:10-25)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I saw over the years some or many people remain slaves of sin because they like and get and consume sugar/ ice cream/ chocolate cake, etc etc etc ....

Others because they like and stay with their own family or group, even when they 'know' they are in darkness and not seeking to come to the Light....

Others? < shrugs > how many reasons are shown in Scripture , why people don't stop sinning and do remain slaves of unrighteousness, slaves of sin, as written ... ?

 

[Ricky M]

It's called flesh. The Spirit may subdue it, but it's still flesh until it's dead.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I saw over the years some or many people remain slaves of sin because they like and get and consume sugar/ ice cream/ chocolate cake, etc etc etc ....

Others because they like and stay with their own family or group, even when they 'know' they are in darkness and not seeking to come to the Light....

Others? < shrugs > how many reasons are shown in Scripture , why people don't stop sinning and do remain slaves of unrighteousness, slaves of sin, as written ... ?

Many claiming to be Christians but have no power over sin is because they have never truly repented and received the Holy Spirit. They are not born again of the Spirit, and only know about Jesus and His ability to save, just as much as a demon knows.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It's called flesh. The Spirit may subdue it, but it's still flesh until it's dead.

There are two things called "flesh." I think you don't know about the second which is what Paul is talking about, not our bodies.

 

[Ricky M]

There are two things called "flesh." I think you don't know about the second which is what Paul is talking about, not our bodies.

Could he be talking about them both?

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Saved by the Blood but, obedience might be a good sign.
M-Bob

 

[CharismaticLady]

Could he be talking about them both?

Do you know what it is that is born again of the Spirit? Do we have to wait until after our body dies to be born again of the Spirit? Don't we have to become saved before we die?

 

[Carl Emerson]

How do you reconcile your proposed conclusion from Romans 6 with Jeremiah's prophecy concerning the New Covenant that the indwelling Holy Spirit would include the Fear of the Lord to prevent the believers falling away? Jer 32:40

 

[SkyWriting]

For years, I’ve been trying to convince people of
what Paul is saying in Romans 6.

17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin (before),
yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Yes, after becoming BACs … they were set FREE from having to be slaves of sin!
Technically, after becoming BACs … they became slaves of righteousness!
But for these BACs … in practice, this certainly was NOT the case!

22 But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God.
Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. (NLT)
Yes, after becoming BACs … they were set FREE from having to be slaves of sin!
Technically, after becoming BACs … they became slaves of God, living holy lives!
And Paul is hinting of what they should be doing!
But for these BACs … in practice, this certainly was NOT the case!

The proof of their STILL being slaves of sin, of NOT being faithful BACs

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not!
6 we should no longer be slaves of sin.
11 reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin,
but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead,
and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
16 … you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
whether (slaves) of sin leading to death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?
19 so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The whole of Romans 6 is Paul’s plea for BACs to STOP being slaves of sin!
Being a slave of sin results in death … spiritual death, not physical death.
The last part of 6:23 applies to faithful BACs who have NOT …
left the faith, fallen from grace, rejected God’s free gift of grace!

Other warning verses about rejecting God’s grace

“God’s will is for you to be holy … live in holiness and honor …
God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives. So, anyone who
refuses to live by these rules is rejecting God.” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-8)

“God has given us everything we need to live a godly life … work hard to prove
that you really are among those God has called and chosen … It would be better
if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then
reject the command they were given to live a holy life” (2 Peter 1:3, 1:10, 2:21)

“God’s discipline is always good for us, so that we might share in his holiness …
work at living a holy life, for those who are NOT holy will NOT see the Lord …
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking.” (Hebrews 12:10-25)

Being a bound up legalist himself, it was a pet peeve of his to accuse others.
The natural brain is always pointing fingers at those "bad" people.

 

[Phil W]

I saw over the years some or many people remain slaves of sin because they like and get and consume sugar/ ice cream/ chocolate cake, etc etc etc ....

Others because they like and stay with their own family or group, even when they 'know' they are in darkness and not seeking to come to the Light....

Others? < shrugs > how many reasons are shown in Scripture , why people don't stop sinning and do remain slaves of unrighteousness, slaves of sin, as written ... ?

You consider eating sugar a sin?
Didn't Jesus have some of a honeycomb after His resurrection?

 

[Phil W]

It's called flesh. The Spirit may subdue it, but it's still flesh until it's dead.

Thank God for making it possible to kill the flesh, (with the affections and lusts...Gal 5:24) at our "immersion" into Christ's death. (Rom 6:3-6)

 

[BCsenior]

How do you reconcile your proposed conclusion from Romans 6 with Jeremiah's prophecy concerning the New Covenant that the indwelling Holy Spirit would include the Fear of the Lord to prevent the believers falling away? Jer 32:40

I don't reconcile it very well.
BTW, very few reconcile all the NT verses ...
so do I have to reconcile all OT verses with all NT verses?
How about? ...
Jeremiah was only speaking of Jewish believers in the very last days?

Meanwhile, how do you like my take on Romans 6?
Or, are you an unbeliever in Romans 6 also?

 

[BCsenior]

(Paul) Being a bound up legalist himself ...

Aaaaah yes, you mean all of those verses where ...
Paul kept saying BACS are FREE from being slaves of sin?
Yeah ... legalism at its finest.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I don't reconcile it very well.
BTW, very few reconcile all the NT verses ...
so do I have to reconcile all OT verses with all NT verses?
How about? ...
Jeremiah was only speaking of Jewish believers in the very last days?

Meanwhile, how do you like my take on Romans 6?
Or, are you an unbeliever in Romans 6 also?

Hey, I appreciate your honest answer.

Yes our conclusions need to take all scripture into account.

My take is this...

Paul writes to a church that is a mixture of true believers and 'others' (wheat and tares)

Why else would he need to write Romans 6 if his message was being heeded?

So first off we can't assume the audience was all born again believers.

Just like in every church today... and the chilling issue is that the 'others' certainly don't know they are not His sheep, (including the leaders) and we can't tell the difference either - only He can make that call. So working out our own salvation with fear and trembling is a very serious issue.

I think the way our churches present Jesus today it is all too easy to dip your toe in the waters of faith - do all the 'right things' but somehow miss the vital connection with Jesus Himself.

Those who are His will indeed be slaves to righteousness and be prevented from falling away through the indwelling 'Fear of the Lord' just as Jeremiah correctly predicted... Hence working out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

I think much of the presentation of the Gospel is far to shallow. Being born again is giving up all your rights to Him. Letting Him take total control. Renouncing any lingering evidence of past ways. Complete surrender of every aspect of your life. (Not just a comfortable 'add on')
Even worshiping Jesus is not evidence of salvation.

Total commitment and total surrender is feared by many 'believers'

The cost of being a true believer is usually not presented with the gospel message.

Please don't think I am just being negative - the opposite is the case. Life with Him is via a narrow gate, but leads to more blessings that you could ask or think, however, few find it...

 

[klutedavid]

I saw over the years some or many people remain slaves of sin because they like and get and consume sugar/ ice cream/ chocolate cake, etc etc etc ....

Others because they like and stay with their own family or group, even when they 'know' they are in darkness and not seeking to come to the Light....

Others? < shrugs > how many reasons are shown in Scripture , why people don't stop sinning and do remain slaves of unrighteousness, slaves of sin, as written ... ?

If sin is a transgression of the law. How can eating sugar be a transgression of the law, when the law does not say; Thou shall not consume sugar.

 

[BCsenior]

Paul writes to a church that is a mixture of true believers and 'others' (wheat and tares)
Why else would he need to write Romans 6 if his message was being heeded?
So first off we can't assume the audience was all born again believers.

I think I agree with everything you wrote.
The question is: Was Paul writing to BACs ... as well as non-BACs?
Do you realize the condition of today's churches in N. A. (Northern Afghanistan, lol)?
Yes, Martha, he was writing to BACs.
Even if all of 'em end up gettin' saved, he was writing to BACs!

 

[Carl Emerson]

Being part of the audience does not make one subject to the message.

Those truely born again would have His confirming peace, that passes all understanding, within - that hey are not destined to fall away.

 

[BCsenior]

Being part of the audience does not make one subject to the message.
Those truly born again would have His confirming peace, that passes all understanding, within -
that they are not destined to fall away.

Now we're getting far out.
IMO, everyone is subject to God's dire warnings.
Having "the Prince of Peace"s peace doesn't stop anyone from choosing to sin!
Nor does it prove that they are destined for heaven!

What do you think of those Jewish believers in Galatians 5:4?
Estranged from Christ ... fallen from grace.
Who are these people?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Having the Fear of God within does...

Jer 32:

38 “They shall be My people, and I will be their God; 39 and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me always, for their own good and for the good of their children after them. 40 “I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.