THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

[LittleLambofJesus]

Continuing.......

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

F. Circumcision of the heart through water baptism replaces circumcision in the flesh: Col 2:11-12
1. Passages:

a. "and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. " (Colossians 2:11-12)

b. "Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, " (Philippians 3:2-3)

c. "For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. " (Galatians 6:15-16)

2. Notice that circumcision was the sign of the covenant in the Old Testament of when a baby came into "covenant relationship" with God on the 8th or 33rd day.

3. Notice the in the New Testament, circumcision is only done to adult consenting believers, not infants. This change found in the New covenant, was prophesied in Jer 31:31-34 and applied in Hebrews 8:11

a. "and they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, and everyone his brother, saying, 'know the Lord,' for all will know me, from the least to the greatest of them. " (Hebrews 8:11)

b. Notice that the Old Testament was where a baby was in covenant relationship first, then had to be taught to know the lord as he grew up second.

c. However Jer 31:31 said that unlike the Old Testament, under the New Covenant a person was first taught to know the Lord, then if he chose to be a Christian, he would then second, get water baptized.

d. Unlike the fleshly Israel who had a large population of children who grew up and never knew the Lord, but were supposed to be God's people, in the New Testament, every single Christian "knows the Lord" and makes the confession of faith.

4. Any unbaptized Jew today (or any person for that matter) is not circumcised in the heart and is therefore lost just like the Gentiles.

5. National Israel today actually rejects Jesus Christ and their only hope is to be saved the same way any other Gentile can be saved: faith, repentance, confessing Christ, and water baptism: Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts22:16; 1 Pe 3:21.

a. ""He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. " (Mark 16:16)

b. "Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. " (Acts 2:38)

c. "'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.' " (Acts 22:16)

d. "Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, " (1 Peter 3:21)

6. Israel as a physical nation circumcised in the flesh, has been replaced by the church as a spiritual nation circumcised in the heart.

7. This is exactly what you find in Gal 6:15-16. The "Israel of God" is the church who walk by faith in Christ regardless of any physical connection to nationhood.

8. Christians are the true circumcision. Being a National circumcised Jew is called the "false circumcision". How could it be any clearer?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

continued:

G. National Identities are destroyed in Christ:

1. Passages:

a. "For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. " (Ephesians 2:14-16)

b. "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise. " (Galatians 3:26-29)

2. Notice that in fulfilling Isa 2:2-4, Christ brought about peace between all the nations that were at war.

3. When a Jew becomes a Christian, he ceases to be a Jew and becomes a new creature.

4. In Christ there are no national competing identities like there were under the Old Testament.

5. National Jews have no advantage over Americans, Canadians, Egyptians or Iranians.

6. Today Christians are God's "chosen race" and they can be from any nation on earth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Continued..........

H. The allegory of Gal 4:21ff: Israel replace by Church

1. "Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. For it is written, "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND." And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN." So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman. " (Galatians 4:21-31)

2. A simple reading of this text show that physical Israel
associated with physical Jerusalem were "cast out" like Hagar and called faithless people of the flesh and replaced by Christians who are associated with Sarah as people of faith.

3. This passage would come as a shock and insult to associate the national Jews with the descendants of Hagar as Israelites who are themselves the ancient ancestors of modern Arabs.

4. Paul calls the nation of Israel a lot of unbelieving, out of covenant, "cast out" Ishmaelite Arabs.

5. Unbelieving Jews are the likened unto the descendants of Ismael and Christians replace them as the true descendants of Sarah through faith, not flesh.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Continuing...........

I. Justin Martyr taught "Replacement theology":

1. Summary of the Replacement theology of Justin Martyr:

a. "Christians are the True Israel" (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXIII, 130 AD)

b. "As therefore from the one man Jacob, who was surnamed Israel, all your nation has been called Jacob and Israel; so we from Christ, who begat us unto God, (like Jacob, and Israel, and Judah, and Joseph, and David,) are called and are the true sons of God, and keep the commandments of Christ" (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXIII, 130 AD)

c. "Christ is King of Israel, and Christians are the Israelitic Race. (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXXV, 130 AD)

d. "As, therefore, Christ is the Israel and the Jacob, even so we, who have been quarried out from the bowels of Christ, are the true Israelitic race." (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXXV, 130 AD)

e. "For all the nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in their hearts.' ... But though a man be a Scythian or a Persian, if he has the knowledge of God and of His Christ, and keeps the everlasting righteous decrees, he is circumcised with the good and useful circumcision, and is a friend of God, and God rejoices in his gifts and offerings." (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter XXVIII, 130 AD)

2. Chapter CXXIII.—Ridiculous Interpretations of the Jews. Christians are the True Israel.

a. "As, therefore, all these latter prophecies refer to Christ and the nations, you should believe that the former refer to Him and them in like manner. For the proselytes have no need of a covenant, if, since there is one and the same law imposed on all that are circumcised, the Scripture speaks about them thus: 'And the stranger shall also be joined with them, and shall be joined to the house of Jacob; ' and because the proselyte, who is circumcised that he may have access to the people, becomes like one of themselves,477 while we who have been deemed worthy to be called a people are yet Gentiles, because we have not been circumcised. Besides, it is ridiculous for you to imagine that the eyes of the proselytes are to be opened while your own are not, and that you be understood as blind and deaf while they are enlightened. And it will be still more ridiculous for you, if you say that the law has been given to the nations, but you have not known it. For you would have stood in awe of God's wrath, and would not have been lawless, wandering sons; being much afraid of hearing God always say, 'Children in whom is no faith. And who are blind, but my servants? and deaf, but they that rule over them? And the servants of God have been made blind. You see often, but have not observed; your ears have been opened, and you have not heard.' Is God's commendation of you honourable? and is God's testimony seemly for His servants? You are not ashamed though you often hear these words. You do not tremble at God's threats, for you are a people foolish and hard-hearted. 'Therefore, behold, I will proceed to remove this people, 'saith the Lord; 'and I will remove them, and destroy the wisdom of the wise, and hide the understanding of the prudent.' Deservedly too: for you are neither wise nor prudent, but crafty and unscrupulous; wise only to do evil, but utterly incompetent to know the hidden counsel of God, or the faithful covenant of the Lord, or to find out the everlasting paths. 'Therefore, saith the Lord, I will raise up to Israel and to Judah the seed of men and the seed of beasts.' And by Isaiah He speaks thus concerning another Israel: 'In that day shall there be a third Israel among the Assyrians and the Egyptians, blessed in the land which the Lord of Sabaoth hath blessed, saying, blessed shall my people in Egypt and in Assyria be, and Israel mine inheritance.' Since then God blesses this people, and calls them Israel, and declares them to be His inheritance, how is it that you repent not of the deception you practise on yourselves, as if you alone were the Israel, and of execrating the people whom God has blessed? For when He speaks to Jerusalem and its environs, He thus added: 'And I will beget men upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall inherit you, and you shall be a possession for them; and you shall be no longer bereaved of them.' " "What, then?"says Trypho; "are you Israel? and speaks He such things of you?"If, indeed," I replied to him, "we had not entered into a lengthy discussion on these topics, I might have doubted whether you ask this question in ignorance; but since we have brought the matter to a conclusion by demonstration and with your assent, I do not believe that you are ignorant of what I have just said, or desire again mere contention, but that you are urging me to exhibit the same proof to these men." And in compliance with the assent expressed in his eyes, I continued: "Again in Isaiah, if you have ears to hear it, God, speaking of Christ in parable, calls Him Jacob and Israel. He speaks thus: 'Jacob is my servant, I will uphold Him; Israel is mine elect, I will put my Spirit upon Him, and He shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry, neither shall any one hear His voice in the street: a bruised reed He shall not break, and smoking flax He shall not quench; but He shall bring forth judgment to truth: He shall shine, and shall not be broken till He have set judgment on the earth. And in His name shall the Gentiles trust.'485 As therefore from the one man Jacob, who was surnamed Israel, all your nation has been called Jacob and Israel; so we from Christ, who begat us unto God, like Jacob, and Israel, and Judah, and Joseph, and David, are called and are the true sons of God, and keep the commandments of Christ."

3. Chapter CXXXV.—Christ is King of Israel, and Christians are the Israelitic Race.

a. "And when Scripture says, 'I am the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, who have made known Israel your King, ' will you not understand that truly Christ is the everlasting King? For you are aware that Jacob the son of Isaac was never a king. And therefore Scripture again, explaining to us, says what king is meant by Jacob and Israel: 'Jacob is my Servant, I will uphold Him; and Israel is mine Elect, my soul shall receive Him. I have given Him my Spirit; and He shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not cry, and His voice shall not be heard without. The bruised reed He shall not break, and the smoking flax He shall not quench, until He shall bring forth judgment to victory. He shall shine, and shall not be broken, until He set judgment on the earth. And in His name shall the Gentiles trust.' Then is it Jacob the patriarch in whom the Gentiles and yourselves shall trust? or is it not Christ? As, therefore, Christ is the Israel and the Jacob, even so we, who have been quarried out from the bowels of Christ, are the true Israelitic race. But let us attend rather to the very word: 'And I will bring forth, 'He says, 'the seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah: and it shall inherit My holy mountain; and Mine Elect and My servants shall possess the inheritance, and shall dwell there; and there shall be folds of flocks in the thicket, and the valley of Achor shall be a resting-place of cattle for the people who have sought Me. But as for you, who forsake Me, and forget My holy mountain, and prepare a table for demons, and fill out drink for the demon, I shall give you to the sword. You shall all fall with a slaughter; for I called you, and you hearkened not, and did evil before me, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.' Such are the words of Scripture; understand, therefore, that the seed of Jacob now referred to is something else, and not, as may be supposed, spoken of your people. For it is not possible for the seed of Jacob to leave an entrance for the descendants of Jacob, or for [God] to have accepted the very same persons whom He had reproached with unfitness for the inheritance, and promise it to them again; but as there the prophet says, 'And now, O house of Jacob, come and let us walk in the light of the Lord; for He has sent away His people, the house of Jacob, because their land was full, as at the first, of soothsayers and divinations; ' even so it is necessary for us here to observe that there are two seeds of Judah, and two races, as there are two houses of Jacob: the one begotten by blood and flesh, the other by faith and the Spirit.

4. Chapter CXL.—In Christ All are Free. The Jews Hope for Salvation in Vain Because They are Sons of Abraham.

a. "Hence also Jacob, as I remarked before, being himself a type of Christ, had married the two handmaids of his two free wives, and of them begat sons, for the purpose of indicating beforehand that Christ would receive even all those who amongst Japheth's race are descendants of Canaan, equally with the free, and would have the children fellow-heirs. And we are such; but you cannot comprehend this, because you cannot drink of the living fountain of God, but of broken cisterns which can hold no water, as the Scripture says. But they are cisterns broken, and holding no water, which your own teachers have digged, as the Scripture also expressly asserts, 'teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.' And besides, they beguile themselves and you, supposing that the everlasting kingdom will be assuredly given to those of the dispersion who are of Abraham after the flesh, although they be sinners, and faithless, and disobedient towards God, which the Scriptures have proved is not the case. For if so, Isaiah would never have said this: 'And unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we would have been like Sodom and Gomorrah.' And Ezekiel: 'Even if Noah, and Jacob, and Daniel were to pray for sons or daughters, their request should not be granted.' But neither shall the father perish for the son, nor the son for the father; but every one for his own sin, and each shall be saved for his own righteousness.539 And again Isaiah says: 'They shall look on the carcases of them that have transgressed: their worm shall not cease, and their fire shall not be quenched; and they shall be a spectacle to all flesh.' And our Lord, according to the will of Him that sent Him, who is the Father and Lord of all, would not have said, 'They shall come from the east, and from the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness.' Furthermore, I have proved in what has preceded,543 that those who were foreknown to be unrighteous, whether men or angels, are not made wicked by God's fault, but each man by his own fault is what he will appear to be.

5. Chapter XXVIII.—True Righteousness is Obtained by Christ.

a. And Trypho replied, "We heard you adducing this consideration a little ago, and we have given it attention: for, to tell the truth, it is worthy of attention; and that answer which pleases most—namely, that so it seemed good to Him—does not satisfy me. For this is ever the shift to which those have recourse who are unable to answer the question."

b. Then I said, "Since I bring from the Scriptures and the facts themselves both the proofs and the inculcation of them, do not delay or hesitate to put faith in me, although I am an uncircumcised man; so short a time is left you in which to become proselytes. If Christ's coming shall have anticipated you, in vain you will repent, in vain you will weep; for He will not hear yon. 'Break up your fallow ground, 'Jeremiah has cried to the people, 'and sow not among thorns. Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and circumcise the foreskin of your heart.' Do not sow, therefore, among thorns, and in untilled ground, whence you can have no fruit. Know Christ; and behold the fallow ground, good, good and fat, is in your hearts. 'For, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will visit all them that are circumcised in their foreskins; Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the sons of Moab. For all the nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in their hearts.'74 Do you see how that God does not mean this circumcision which is given for a sign? For it is of no use to the Egyptians, or the sons of Moab, or the sons of Edom. But though a man be a Scythian or a Persian, if he has the knowledge of God and of His Christ, and keeps the everlasting righteous decrees, he is circumcised with the good and useful circumcision, and is a friend of God, and God rejoices in his gifts and offerings. But I will lay before you, my friends, the very words of God, when He said to the people by Malachi, one of the twelve prophets, 'I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord; and I shall not accept your sacrifices at your hands: for from the rising of the sun unto its setting My name shall be glorified among the Gentiles; and in every place a sacrifice is offered unto My name, even a pure sacrifice: for My name is honoured among the Gentiles, saith the Lord; but ye profane it.' And by David He said, 'A people whom I have not known, served Me; at the hearing of the ear they obeyed Me.'

 

[BABerean2]

I. Justin Martyr taught "Replacement theology":

The New Testament is not the Replacement of the Old Testament.
It is the "Fulfillment". (See Luke 24:25-27.)

An understanding of the New Covenant promised to Israel, and Judah, in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is Fulfillment Theology.

See also Romans 11:1-5.
All through the history of Israel there were two different groups of Israelites. One group was faithful to God, and the other group rejected God's plan.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Please vote in the poll........

From a premill futurist view.........including debates.....

Supersessionism Archives | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES

Supersessionism
Why Premillennial Theology Matters – Ep. 140
July 16, 2019 by Dr. Alan E. Kurschner

The ‘Lost Tribes of Israel’ and the 144,000 in Revelation 7:1–8 (Video)

July 9, 2018 by Dr. Alan E. Kurschner

In the 1800s there were theologians who mocked the notion that Israel would one day be gathered and become a nation again. This presupposition of limiting God led to them spiritualizing many Bible prophecy passages in the Bible. These same type of replacement theologians today view the passage of the Israelite 144,000 in Revelation 7:1–8 […]

These same type of replacement theologians today view the passage of the Israelite 144,000 in Revelation 7:1–8 within the same spiritualizing hermeneutic. Their most-often cited objection to seeing this passage being fulfilled literally in twelve tribes of Israel is that they are now “lost” to us after more than two millennia. So they spiritualize the 144,000 making them.. . . you guessed it, the Church.

The problem is that these theologians, once again, limit God’s knowledge and power. They may have been lost to us, but not to God, who is sovereign over all things. It has been known to us in the West for a couple of decades or more that there are pockets of people groups scattered namely in the East and Middle East who claim to be part of the northern tribes of Israel who were exiled in 722 BC. There are many documented accounts supporting their Jewish customs, beliefs, and practices.
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to be continued

DO YOU AGREE WITH THE OP POST?

1. *
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2. No
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3. I don't know what REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY is
   1 vote(s)
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4. I don't know what SUPERSESSIONISM IS
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5. Does it matter?
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[LittleLambofJesus]

Continued...............

‘How could God have explained [the land promise] any more clearly?’

July 5, 2018 by Dr. Alan E. Kurschner

Recently, I posted a debate on replacement theology between Michael Brown and Munther Isaac with Gary Burge as the moderator. There was one exchange in the debate toward the end that is worth the price of the debate. Michael Brown asked a very honest and direct question on the land promise that goes to the heart of the debate. Munther Issac avoided answering this question. So Brown asked again . . . Issac then revealed how he changes his hermeneutic based on whether you are talking about the Old Testament or the New Testament. He believes God originally made the promise of physical land, but in so many words he thinks God changed that promise to spiritual fulfillment. It reveals the incredible inconsistent and flawed hermeneutic that supersessionists operate from. The clip on the land promise begins at 50:17, but you can go back a bit earlier and hear the larger discussion..............

.

 

[BABerean2]

Continued...............

‘How could God have explained [the land promise] any more clearly?’

Did they discuss the fact that the "son" is the "heir" to the land in Matthew chapter 21, and that the kingdom would be taken from those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone", and it would be given to another nation bearing fruit?

Did they discuss the real piece of land that is found in Hebrews 11:15-16?

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Did they discuss the fact that the "son" is the "heir" to the land in Matthew chapter 21, and that the kingdom would be taken from those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone", and it would be given to another nation bearing fruit?

Did they discuss the real piece of land that is found in Hebrews 11:15-16?

.

Apparently not.
I don't want to be bias and why I am presenting views from both Preterists/Amills and Futurists.

An interesting debate on R T...........

CAMERA Snapshots: Michael Brown Exposes Double-Standard at Christ at the Checkpoint

This debate took place on May 30th in Bethlehem at the Christ Checkpoint conference.

Debate on Replacement Theology: Michael Brown vs Munther Isaac (Moderated by Gary Burge)

Dr. Michael Brown | Chosen People Ministries Events

Michael L. Brown is the founder and president of FIRE School of Ministry in Concord, North Carolina, Director of the Coalition of Conscience, and host of the daily, nationally, syndicated talk radio show, the Line of Fire, as well as the host of the apologetics TV show, “Answering Your Toughest Questions,” which airs on the NRB TV network. He became a believer in Jesus 1971 as a sixteen year-old, heroin-shooting, LSD-using Jewish rock drummer. Since then, he has preached throughout America and around the world, bringing a message of repentance, revival, reformation, and cultural revolution.................

Michael L. Brown - Wikipedia
Michael L. Brown
(born March 16, 1955) is a radio host, author, professor and noted proponent of Messianic Judaism, Christian Zionism,[1] and the Charismatic Movement. His nationally syndicated radio show, The Line of Fire, airs throughout the United States. He regularly contributes articles to the Christian news platform The Stream as well as to the news site Townhall, and serves as head of the Coalition of Conscience, a Christian organization in the Charlotte, North Carolina area. He also holds a Ph.D in Near Eastern Languages and Literature from New York University...............

Rev. Dr. Munther Isaac

Munther’s Blog | Christ at the Checkpoint 2020

REV. DR. MUNTHER ISAAC
Palestinian Christian pastor, theologian, writer, speaker, blogger, and more importantly, a husband and a father. Munther wears many hats. He now pastors Christmas Lutheran Church in Bethlehem, and is at the same time the Academic Dean of Bethlehem Bible. He is also the director of the highly acclaimed and influential Christ at the Checkpoint conferences, and is a board member of Kairos Palestine.
Munther is passionate about issues related to Palestinians and Palestinian Christians. He speaks locally and internationally on issues related to the theology of the land, Palestinian Christians, and Palestinian theology. He is the author of “From Land to Lands, from Eden to the Renewed Earth: A Christ-Centered Biblical Theology of the Promised Land”.
Munther originally studied civil engineering in Birzeit. Realizing that numbers and construction sites are not his thing, he obtained a Master in Biblical Studies from Westminster Theological Seminary and then a PhD from the Oxford Centre for Mission Studies.
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Every two years, the ritual is repeated. The organizers of the Christ at the Checkpoint Conference, a so-called peacemaking conference held every even-numbered year at the Orient Palace Hotel in Beit Jala, invite a Messianic Jew to defend Israel before an audience of Evangelical Christians, some of whom have come to the West Bank to hear and relate stories of Jews behaving badly and then use these stories to feed an unwholesome bitterness toward Israel.

The invitation is given by conference organizers from the Bethlehem Bible College, an Evangelical college in Beit Jala, to demonstrate that they are willing to listen to people who disagree with them. It's not as if the organizers really want to hear or acknowledge what he has to say, but instead hope to deploy the Messianic Jew as a prop to lend credibility to their anti-Zionist narrative.

It's an obvious set-up, but the the Messianic Jew, who desperately wants to be taken seriously as a believer in Jesus and as a Jew who loves Israel, says yes. He knows full well other speakers at the conference will do everything they can to counteract his defense of Israel, but the invitee concludes that if he says agree to speak, no one will speak on Israel's behalf at the conference.

During his talk, the Jewish believer in Jesus acknowledges that the Palestinians are suffering, laments this suffering and then offers an apologia of Israel's efforts to defend itself, most notably the security barrier and the checkpoint. Everyone applauds his sincerity and for a few moments, expresses sympathy for the Israelis.

But by the time the conference is over, the Messianic Jew's presence at the Christ at the Checkpoint has been forgotten, or worse, used to remind Evangelicals in attendance that Israel is the sovereign state of the people who have rejected Jesus. The message implicit in the talk is that if only more Jews in Israel accepted Jesus as their messiah, like that guy on stage, the conflict between the Israel and the Palestinians would have ended years ago.

But that's not how it happened during this year's Christ at the Checkpoint. Not by a long shot.

Instead of defending Israel's efforts to defending itself and leaving it at that, Michael Brown, a conservative radio host and a Jewish believer in Jesus, went on the offensive. Brown, who spoke at the conference on May, 29,2018, began by describing his problems with the conference.

"I have already been grieved by things I heard from leaders in private, comparing Israel to Hamas, vilifying Palestinian Christians who have a different perspective, CATC encouraging tours of the blatantly propagandistic Walled Off Hotel, which distorts the past and the present and accuses Israel of ethnic cleansing," Brown said.

Brown didn't stop there. He challenged Palestinian Christians, especially the folks who organized the CATC conference, to “Openly express your disagreements with the Palestinian Authority and Fatah and Hamas. Otherwise, the feeling is that you’re in harmony with them.�?

It was a legitimate challenge, because, as in year's past, the first night of this year's conference (which continues until Friday) was dedicated to Palestinian Christians saying nice things about the Palestinian Authority leadership and allowing the PA to attack Israel. (And this year, one Christian from outside the region, Bishop Efraim Tendero, secretary-general of the World Evangelical alliance called Mahmoud Abbas, a man of peace in this land.�? High praise for a man who complained about Jews desecrating the Temple Mount with their “filthy feet�? a few years ago.)

Brown didn't just chide CATC organizers for their apparent submission to the PA. He called on conference organizers to condemn the tendency of Palestinian leaders to celebrate the murder of Israelis in terror attacks. He made this plea after recounting the details surrounding the murder of Fogel family in 2011: "Rabbi Yaakov Cohen, a neighbor who entered the house with their 12-year-old daughter (who returned from a youth event to find her slaughtered family), told the Ynet website that her two-year-old brother 'was lying next to his bleeding parents, shaking them with his hands and trying to get them to wake up, while crying … The sight in the house was shocking.'" Brown said.

"Today, the families of the murderers, Amjad Awad and Hakim Awad, receive regular payments from the PA as part of their pension. In fact, it is reported that PA payments to families of terrorists and prisoners amount to roughly 10 percent of the PA budget," he added.

Then Brown made a direct plea: "Will you join me today in renouncing this?"

He also described how Israelis respond to the deaths of civilians at the hands of their government when in 2002, Israeli forces killed Salah Shehade who according to one source, “had direct involvement in attacks that killed 474 people and wounded 2,649 between July 2001 and July 2002.�?

But in killing Shehade, Brown reported, they also “killed his wife, his daughter, his assistant, plus ten other civilians, including seven children, the youngest less than one year old. One hundred fifty people were wounded. Israeli intelligence relied on bad information, as a result of which so many others were killed or wounded, since he alone was targeted.�? Brown continued: "When word of this got out, there were national protests in Israel, including the rebellion of air force pilots who had been involved in previous bombing missions. The nation rose up to protest the shedding of innocent Palestinian blood – even in the process of killing a mass murderer."

Brown then asked the Palestinian Christians to follow the example set by the Israelis and hold their leaders accountable. "The least you could do as followers of Jesus is stand with me in denouncing your government’s celebration of terrorism," he said."I understand you have challenges as a Christian minority in a Muslim society, but somehow, your voices of dissent must be heard."

It was a powerful speech. In addition challenging CATC organizers to confront Palestinian violence, Brown asked them to condemn replacement theology and to “put Jesus at the center of the conflict�? and to demonstrate this action, by expressing “love for the Israeli people.�? This is a tough challenge, because as Brown declared, “CATC is far better known for standing against Israel than standing against Hamas and for the Gazan Christians.�?

Conference spokesperson Rev. Dr. Munther Isaac knew the challenge was coming (he even had a copy of Brown's speech before it was given) and should have been able to provide an irenic and substantive response.

Instead, he reacted with shocking disdain for the issues Brown raised, saying he and his colleagues were “tired�? of having to deal with the issues and questions Brown raised in his talk, because “they seem to place all the blame on us, the oppressed.�?

Isaac went on to say that he too could talk about the suffering endured by his community and could show pictures of the victims of Israeli violence but that he didn't want to get into a competition about who suffered more. He also declared that radical Jewish groups and politicians celebrate when Palestinians are killed, as if there were an equivalence between the incitement in Palestinian and Israeli society when there isn't. Hamas- and PA-run television stations regularly demonize Jews and the Palestinian Authority (and the Jordanian government) regularly allows for call of incitement on the Temple Mount. Demonization of the other permeates Palestinian society in ways that it simply does not in Israel.

Instead of confronting the problem of incitement and the celebration of murder by both the PA and Hamas who use antisemitism as a unifying political agenda, Isaac tried to change the subject.

“The real question we should be asking asking as followers of Christ,�? Isaac said, “is 'What drives people to do these violent things?' This is the real question you should be asking. The question you should be asking is how do we together work to address the systems and structures of injustice and oppression that create these violent actions of some Palestinians. How do we as followers as Christ come together in humbleness and deal with the causes and ideologies that exclude and demonize?�?

Isaac also complained about a double-standard used to judge Palestinian violence. “Why is every Israeli violence self-defense? Why is every Palestinian violence terrorism?�?

“How ironic that Evangelical Christians that supported the war in Iraq and support a war in Iran condemn and criticize the Palestinian people for violent acts of certain groups among us.�? He also said that the Christ at the Checkpoint has previously condemned all forms of violence but that it's just that people are not listening. Isaac, who like many other CATC speakers, has repeatedly and regularly condemned Christian Zionism at conferences over the past decade, simply couldn't be bothered to repeat these previous condemnations of Palestinian violence.

In his response, Isaac missed an opportunity to send a message to Israelis and Jews throughout the world that yes, he and his fellow Palestinian Christians understand how frightening it is for them to see Palestinian leaders laud and reward the killers of Israeli women and children.

Instead of acknowledging the obligation of his fellow Christians to speak truth to power in Palestinian society – and not just condemn Israel – Isaac spoke in vague terms about “systems�? and “structures�? that cause people to engage in acts of terror, as if the concept of sin – which CATC speakers use so often to condemn Israel – should not be used to assess Palestinian behavior.

Apparently, in Isaac's world, it's theological condemnation for Israel, sociological explanations for the Palestinians.

Brown's direct challenge to Palestinian Christians highlighted this troubling double-standard.

In sum, Michael Brown did Christians throughout the world a great service by highlighting the inability of Palestinian Christians to speak truth to power in Palestinian society. Hopefully, conference organizers will take Brown's message to heart in the days ahead.

 

[BABerean2]

Brown's direct challenge to Palestinian Christians highlighted this troubling double-standard.

In sum, Michael Brown did Christians throughout the world a great service by highlighting the inability of Palestinian Christians to speak truth to power in Palestinian society. Hopefully, conference organizers will take Brown's message to heart in the days ahead.

I find it strange that many American Christians believe Israeli Christians, whose families have lived in the land for over a thousand years, should give up their land to Orthodox Jews, who mainly came from Europe.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Is "Christian Zionism" Biblical ?

A great deal of time and energy has been devoted on this forum to the question of how the modern State of Israel will be involved in end time events.

Many claim there are unfulfilled Old Testament promises which belong to modern people based on a sample of their DNA.

This has led many Christians to view the modern State of Israel as a fulfillment of God's plan. Some have even sent money to help rebuild a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

In this thread we will examine the modern Zionist movement, and compare it to scripture.

We will start with a few questions.

1. Were those involved in the modern Zionist movement Jews devoted to the Old Testament God of Abraham, Issaac, and Jacob?

2. What does the New Testament say about genealogy?

3. Can a modern person of any race come to salvation outside of the New Covenant Church, based on what is found in the New Testament?
................................................................
James Perloff has studied the globalist agenda for many years.
At one time he was a writer for "The New American" magazine.

Often anyone who dares to question the Zionist movement or the modern State of Israel is labeled as an "anti-Semite".
The father of James Perloff was Jewish.

In the video below James discusses what he believes are the connections between modern Zionism and the movement to push us into a one world government.
Please judge what he says based on scripture and the historical facts.

G-I-G-O What Christian Zionists Get Wrong About Israel

Steve Lumbley: G-I-G-O What Christian Zionists Get Wrong About Israel (2017)
Revelation] was written in Patmos (about A.D. 68), whither John had been banished by Domitius Nero, as stated in the title of the Syriac Version of the Book. The internal testimony is wholly in favour of the earlier date. The temple at Jerusalem was still standing (ch. 11. 1-10); the exact duration of the siege is foretold, viz., 42 months; Nero was reigning at that time, for it is said of the seven kings of Rome; 'five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come, and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.' The five kings are Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius. The 'one who is' is Nero; the one who 'must continue a short space' is Galba, who reigned only seven months. Everywhere the events are 'to come quickly,' lit. 'with haste,' or speed (ch. 1. 1; 2. 16; 3. 11; 11. 14; 22. 7, 12, 20). - Robert Young

Christian Zionist’s (hereinafter referred to as CZ’s) often accuse me of teaching replacement theology, a term which is intended to have the same effect as the word racist. It is an attempt to stop the discussion right then and there. No more discussion is needed if you are a replacement theologian. You are so obviously wrong and deluded we’re done with this conversation.

In reality, I don’t know anyone who teaches replacement theology as it is commonly defined by CZ’s. That definition always includes the idea that God is “finished” with the Jews, whatever that means. Perhaps some taught that in the past. Men like Martin Luther, John Calvin, and the Catholic Church, were vicious in their denunciation of Jews and viewed them as mortal enemies of the church. Other than a few radical fringe groups like white supremacists I know of no one today who believes Jews should be denounced and marginalized in that way. Any person or group that denies Christ can be considered an enemy of the gospel but we as Christians are to love our enemies and reach out to them with truth.

When confronted with the replacement theology accusation I often answer the question with a question. I’ll ask this – has the New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant.

Astonishingly, many CZ’s answer that question with a resounding no! According to many of them the New Covenant has not replaced the Old Covenant, or it only applies to the church, or it hasn’t been fully implemented, or it doesn’t apply to the Jews, or it was never offered to the Jews, or it is in effect but will be supplanted by a temporary return to the Old Covenant for the sake of bringing Jews to Christ.

Therefore if CZ’s begin with the premise that the New Covenant does not replace the Old Covenant at least as it applies to the nation of Israel or the Jewish people, if they read the Old Covenant promises and prophecies as if the New Covenant doesn’t really exist, that faulty premise leads them to a false understanding of the modern nation state of Israel as well as a false understanding of the true Israel of God. Garbage in – Garbage out.

So, let’s begin with this. No, I do not believe that God is “finished” with the Jewish people. I believe they have every opportunity to be reconciled to God as does every man, woman, and child on this planet be they Jew or Gentile. But in order to be reconciled to the Father the Jewish people must come through the cross of Christ just like everyone else. God is no respecter of persons. No ethnic or national identity, no biological birthright will ever bring reconciliation between God and man. And the method that God has chosen to bring both Jew and Gentile to the cross of Christ is the preaching of the gospel.

For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:11-14

For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 1Co 1:21-24

It is clear from these scriptures and many others that the only New Covenant method of bringing men to reconciliation is the preaching of the gospel and that applies to both Jew and Gentile. There is nothing in scripture to suggest that the New Covenant was not applicable to the Jewish people. If there were, the apostles certainly wasted their time by taking this gospel to the Jew first and then the gentiles.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16

If Jews were still to be saved by some application of the Old Covenant, why did Peter bother to preach the gospel on the day of Pentecost? (Acts 2) Better yet why did God save 3,000 souls that day by the power of Peter’s proclamation?

If there were to be some other method of bringing Jews to Christ, why did Stephen dispute with the men of the Synagogue of the Freedmen? (Acts 6:9) Why did they bring him before the Jewish scribes and elders with false accusations of blasphemy? Why did Stephen continue to proclaim the gospel while being stoned to death for his trouble? (Acts 7)

Indeed why did Paul or any of the apostles endure the trials and tribulations they incurred primarily from the Jews. Why bother with all that if God would eventually save them all by some other means?

Even so, many CZ’s in our day say God will use some other method to bring Christ to the nation of Israel. Some believe it will happen only after the modern nation of Israel is facing defeat at the hands of anti-christ. Some are convinced that after 2/3rd’s of Israel is destroyed the remaining Jews will somehow turn en-masse to Christ and be saved. The obvious question here is why hasn’t that happened before?

When Jerusalem and the entire nation of Israel was destroyed in 70 AD was there any national repentance and turning to Christ? How about the holocaust of the 1940’s? Did Hitler cause Jews to turn to Christ? How about any of the tribulations Jews have faced down through the centuries? None of those things have brought Jews to Christ because those are not the methods ordained by the Father to reconcile them to the Messiah.

Yet during all those tribulations and more, Jews have been coming to Christ through the preaching of the gospel. For over 2,000 years and still today Jews are coming to Christ through the same gospel message the apostles preached. There is no other means by which men can be saved. (Acts 4:12)

Some CZ’s insist that Jews will be saved when they see Christ return in glory. They use the prophecy of Zechariah.

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zec 12:10

There are several problems with that particular interpretation the first of which is salvation comes by faith, not by sight (2 Cor 5:7). If physically seeing him is to bring salvation, God becomes a respecter of persons and a liar. He would be allowing Jews salvation by sight, giving Jews an opportunity afforded no other group of people in all of history.

And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they. Acts 15:7-11

Peter preached the gospel to the household of Roman Centurion Cornelius, a gentile (Acts 10). He saw the Lord pour out the Holy Spirit upon them and he concludes that God desires to save Jews and Gentiles both by that method, the preaching of the gospel.

Finally we know that God will not bring salvation to the Jews at some future time by looking upon him because according to the Apostle John, Zechariah’s prophecy was fulfilled at the cross. Writing about what he had personally witnessed at Calvary, John said;

And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe. For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, “Not one of His bones shall be broken.” And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.” John 19:35-37

John quoted Old Covenant scripture as proof that Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled these Messianic prophecies. Not one of his bones shall be broken was a fulfillment of David’s Messianic Psalm 34:20. It also fulfilled the symbolism of the Passover lamb (Exodus 12:46 & Numbers 9:12) And they shall look upon Him whom they pierced fulfilled Zechariah 12:10.

Therefore Zechariah 12:10 is not some far off future promise of salvation by sight. It was a messianic prophesy fulfilled by Christ at the cross, witnessed and testified to by John so that the Jewish people would know that Jesus is the promised Messiah.

I began by stating that CZ’s read scripture as if the New Covenant didn’t exist. In part 2 of this series we will see how scripture itself interprets prophecy in light of the New Covenant.

All scripture references from NKJV

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Supersessionism

The word “supersessionism” describes the influential idea that Christians (the people of “the new covenant”) have replaced Jews (the people of “the old covenant”) as the people of God. One early example of supersessionism appears in the Epistle of Barnabas, most probably written between the fall of the Second Temple (70 C.E.) and the second Jewish revolt against the Romans (135 C.E.):

These things [the Jewish cult] then he abolished in order that the new law of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is without the yoke of necessity, might have its oblation not made by man. (Epistle of Bar 2:6)

Those who are in favor of this theological interpretation often refer to Jer 31:31-32.

The days are surely coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant that I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to bring then out of the land of Egypt—a covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, says the Lord.

This passage is quoted in the New Testament in Heb 8:8-9, which contains a remarkable difference: instead of the phrase “though I was their husband,” it reads, “so I had no concern for them.” These words in Hebrews are a cornerstone of Christian supersessionist theology: the people of Israel no longer find favor with the God of Israel because God has made a new declaration of love to the Christian church.

Heb 8:9 differs significantly from Jer 31:31-32 because it quotes a translation of the Hebrew Bible into Greek. This translation, known as the Septuagint, describes a relationship that has been terminated: God seeks a divorce. In the Hebrew text, God wants to continue the relationship.
Both the Septuagint and Hebrews use the Greek verb amelein, meaning “to ignore,” “not to care about,” “to abandon.” In the Hebrew Bible, however, the verb is ba‘al, which can be translated as “to be a husband,” “to be faithful,” “to be the Lord.”

The best explanation of the difference between the Hebrew and Greek texts is that either the translators of the Septuagint were translating from a Hebrew manuscript that contained a different word or that the translators misread the manuscript that they were reading—the translator might have misread ba‘al as the word ga‘al (“to despise,” “to abandon”).

If Hebrews is based on ga‘al, then those who use Heb 8:9 as a cornerstone of their theology are silently claiming that the Hebrew text in Jer 31:31-32 is inferior to the text of the Septuagint.
It is not a question of being “biblical” or “unbiblical” but rather a choice between two biblical manuscript traditions. Hence, readers should ask themselves whether ba‘al (“to be faithful”) or ga‘al (“to despise”) best represents how the God of Israel is described in the biblical texts in general and in Jeremiah in particular.

After the end of the Second World War, a number of Christian churches began to question and to some extent even denounce supersessionism.
One of the most famous examples is the Roman Catholic document Nostra Aetate. Published on October 28, 1965, this is arguably the most important text on Jewish-Christian relations since Paul’s letter to the Romans.
The fourth paragraph of this declaration on the relationship between the Roman Catholic Church and non-Christian religions states:

It is true that the Church is the new people of God, yet the Jews should not be spoken of as rejected or accursed as if this followed from Holy Scripture.

To a remarkable degree, this single sentence highlights the tension between the Roman Catholic Church’s eagerness to retain the language of being the “people of God” and its desire to refute the idea of supersessionism.

 

[Contenders Edge]

"Replacement theology" or "supersessionism" is the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

John Hagee and others who oppose "replacement theology" are rank false teachers whom apostle Paul condemns as "fallen from grace, severed from Christ". (Gal 4:10; 5:4; Rom 7:1-7; Jer 31:31 + Heb 8:6-13)

LLOJ, you have been asking in a previous thread (refer to I.T.L.R.T. T. N.O I.F.I.T.N.C) for Contender's Edge to give his input on this thread and he is finally granting your wish. But to start out with, the Gospel of Jesus Christ only replaces one thing: The Old Covenant of the law with the New Covenant of Grace. But the Church does not replace any nation or people, but rather invites all people of every nation to become a part of it.

The promises claimed by the Church are those that pertain to the Church but it never usurps the promises that were made to the people of Israel. While there are promises the Church holds in common with the people of Israel, there are also differences in promises as well.

For example, Israel was created by God to be His representative nation to the rest of the world. They were established within a certain place and given certain boundaries with territory that they are destined to forever possess. (Ezek. 37:25, Am. 9:15) The Church, though comprised of a multitude of nations and peoples, was never given land in which to dwell. Otherwise, like the Jews, we would all be dwelling in one location on the earth, but we do not dwell in one location. It was not intended that we should.

We may no longer be bound by the laws, ordinances, and observances associated with the Old Covenant, but the promises of God and prophecies, no matter to what they pertain, are never done away with and what did not meet its fulfillment before the New Testament, has either met or will be destined to meet its fulfillment in the New Testament; the redemptive work done by Christ on the cross on our behalf and His power over death by His resurrection makes those things yet to come all the more certain.

There may be some on the Dispensationalist side who may have gone to the extreme to suggest that the Jews, because they are counted as children of the promise, (Rom. 9:8) do not need Jesus in order to be saved but can still be saved by observing the Old Covenant ordinances. This position has become known as what is called a Dual Covenant Theology, but is not endorsed by most who are Dispensational or Dispensationalist leaning. Among known Dispensationalist organizations that do not teach or endorse the Dual Covenant doctrine, or at least have not been known to, are ministries such as:

The Berean Call
Lighthouse Trails Research
Understand The Times
Pre-Trib.org
Eternal Productions
Now The End Begins
Olive Tree Views
Jews for Jesus
Christian Satellite Network
Zola Levitt Ministries


Just to name a few.

Those who believe in Replacement Theology love the state of Israel and are among her strongest supporters!
we defend and support the only democracy in the Middle east and consider Israel our primary ally in the world of Islamic Nuclear Jihad and terrorism.

That is good to know. We need to.

We believe that Israel was granted legal title to the historic promised land through the Balfour Declaration (1917) and the League of Nations "Mandate for Palestine" of December 1922. We believe that "Palestinians" is a fictitious title for a "people" that never existed in history, except for the nation from which it owes its origin: Philistines (ie. Goliath) who are a long extinct nation. We do not believe Israel is an occupier or "Apartheid State".
We are neither "far-left" or "progressive" and condemn "Israel Apartheid Week" as a delusional pack of lies. We do not believe Israel is a "cursed nation". We oppose those who boycott Israel and prefer Israeli made products over anything made in Muslim countries because of their high quality. In fact, we admire and applaud how well Israel treats those in Gaza and the West Bank, given the number of terrorist attacks Muslims launch upon the peace loving, hard-working civilian Jewish population

Dispensationalists stand by you on this. Where we differ is that we believe that the Jews not only hold a legal and historical claim to the land, but also a scriptural claim.

We reject the "two state solution" of Dividing Israel up into a militarily indefensible nation because the Koran is the problem. Those living in the West Bank and Gaza Strip already have the "two state solution" provided for in the "Mandate for Palestine"… the entire nation of "Jordan"! SO DON'T CALL US ANTI-SEMETIC. It makes you look dumb and uninformed.

God rejects a two-state solution as well. (Lev. 25:23, Deut. 19:14, Dan. 11:39, Joel 3:2) It needs to be made clear that I do not believe that anti-Semitism lies in the heart of every Preterist or Preterist-leaning person, but will not hesitate to call out any remarks made by anyone that could be perceived as anti-Semitic since such a spirit should have no place in the body of Christ.

And as mentioned already, it is good to know that you do not seem to harbor hatred of Israel or Jews, but it cannot be denied that historically, in the name of Preterism, the Jewish people have suffered an immense amount of persecution at the hands of so-called Christians from both Catholic and Protestant factions.

It is one of the reasons many Jews are resistant to the Gospel and are imbittered towards Christianity; hence the stigma of anti-Semitism being placed upon Preterists of any shade by Dispensationalists who have been the Jews' strongest allies throughout history.

Dispensationalists do not blame Preterism entirely for turning Jews away from the Gospel, but do hold the doctrine partly responsible.

Like all Christians we believe all Jews, Muslims and unbelievers are lost until they believe Jesus rose from the dead, repented and are immersed in water for the remission of their sins… and by the way, Jesus was a Jew NOT a Palestinian.

The greater part of Dispensationalists agree with you.

Jesus was born a Jew and lived as a Jew, keeping the Law of Moses perfect and sinless. IT ANGERS US THAT JEWS REFUSE TO ACTUALLY READ THE NEW TESTAMENT. But we still love Israel and support her as a democratic nation!

But one day, the nation of Israel will finally embrace the New Testament. (Rom. 9:27, 11:26) Some Jews presently already have and still are embracing the New Testament. (Rom. 11:5)
It appears your post is a three-parter, so I will be responding to the other two parts as soon as I can.

 

[Contenders Edge]

Christians are God's true "Jews" today, Israel is the church!

You believe in Replacement theology if…

Most churches teach replacement theology so this should be quite easy for you to see…

1. …you believe the Bible when it says Christians are the true Jews today: Romans 2:28-29: "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. ", "for we [Christians] are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, " (Philippians 3:3)

…you believe that Israel is the church: "For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel [church] of God." (Galatians 6:15-16) The peace in this passage is for those who walk according to Christ so CANNOT refer to fleshly/physical Israel that utterly rejects Christ.

Christians are only called Jews in spirit in contrast to the unbelieving Jews who are Jews by blood only and the Church is called Israel in spirit to contrast it with the nation of Israel formed from the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and was only done so as to make clear that being a Jew and a child of Abraham alone is not enough to be saved, but that one must also become a Jew and child of Abraham inwardly which is only made possible through Christ by faith.

The reason why we are called Israel in the inward sense is because the faith we apply when we placed our trust in Christ for our salvation is the faith that Abraham placed in God for the promises made to him which is why it is written that the faith that Abraham placed in God was credited to him for righteousness. (Jas. 2:23) In the same way, when we believe Christ for our redemption and in the sufficiency of His sacrifice, (Heb. 9:28) it is credited to us for righteousness.

But generally speaking, Christians are not called Jews and the Church is not called Israel, thus giving a clear indication that the Church does not replace the nation of Israel and we do not replace the Jews for as it is written, "all Israel shall be saved" (Rom. 11:26) but if the Church replaced Israel, then Israel would be forever lost thus making a lie out of the scriptures which says that God has not cast off his people (Rom. 11:1) but and which also say that though God should make an end of all nations, He will not make an end of Israel (Jer. 30:11) but has guaranteed them a perpetual existence (Jer. 31:35-37, 33:20-26) and if He is faithful in keeping and fulfilling all things which pertain to the nation of Israel, so we can also be sure that He will be faithful in fulfilling all things pertaining to us who are in Christ, but if He should forever cast away Israel, how then can we be sure that He will not cast His Church away as well?

And if Israel be forever bereft of their inheritance, then how can we be sure that we will be given a perpetual inheritance? But if the Lord proves Himself faithful in fulfilling all that which pertains to one group of people, then we can be all the more certain that He will do the same for us who have place our faith in Him, trusting that He will do all that He has said and fulfill all that has been written.

• …you believe Jews must believe in Jesus to be saved and are as lost as Muslims and atheists until they do. (Jn 3:16; Jn 14:6)

• …you believe the New Testament (second covenant) of Jesus Christ replaced the Old

• …you believe that keeping both the First and Second covenants at the same time is like a woman married to two men at the same time (Romans 6:1-7)

• …you believe the body of the Christian is the temple that God dwells in today not some building made of stone, wood or curtains. (1 Cor 3:16; 6:19-20)

Dispensationalists would agree with you as far as the aforementioned goes.

​

• …you believe the Saturday Sabbath was abolished and Christians worship on the first day of the week (Sunday).

• …you believe the calendar of 7 Jewish feasts are not to be kept by Christians: Passover (Pesach), Unleavened Bread (Chag Hamotzi), First Fruits (Yom habikkurim), Pentecost (Shavu'ot), Trumpets (Yom Teru'ah), Atonement (Yom Kippur), Tabernacles (Sukkot).

Paul said it does not make any difference as to when a person has their sabbath rest just so long as they rest from their normal labors one day out of the week. (Col. 2:16) It was for the benefit of man that the Sabbath was created (Mk. 2:27-28) and it has been proven time and time again that it has been to the hurt of those who either do not take at least one day off a week from their normal labors or have been forced to work without a day of rest once a week, but as to whether or not we should still observe a day of rest is for another thread.

As for the feasts, though we are not required to observe them, some Christians still do observe most of them, not because they are required to, but out of love for our Lord since each one pertains to our Savior but as to what each Jewish feast represents is also a study and a subject unto itself.

• …you believe that the entire law of Moses has been abrogated and replaced by the law of Christ and that if you want to keep just one part of the law of Moses, YOU MUST KEEP IT ALL!

Abrogate is not the right word to use because abrogate means to cancel which is not what Christ came to do. (Mt. 5:17) He came to fulfill the law of Moses and the prophets, which He did and will continue to do until all things are fulfilled.

We may no longer be under the letter of the law which we cannot perfectly keep in the sense that we are no longer bound by the cleanliness, ceremonial, and dietary laws and we are not required to keep certain observances but many professing Christians have justified sinful living by the law of grace despite admonishments and warnings from scripture not to do so. (Rom. 6:1-2, 6-7, 10-17, Heb. 10:26)

• …if you believe that you do not need to be circumcised to be saved. Acts 15:1-3

• …if you believe there is no distinction in the mind of God towards all men: Jew or gentile, rich or poor, male or female (Gal 3:28-29)

Most Dispensationalists would be in agreement.

 

[Contenders Edge]

1. Christians are the true Jews and true Israel today
2. The church is God's Israel today.
"Replacement theology" or "supersessionism" is what those who teach the Rapture call the apostolic doctrine that physical Israel was replaced by the Spiritual church and Jews by blood were replaced by Jews by faith.The Bible clearly teaches that God's true Jews today are Christians:

Christians are only called Jews in spirit in contrast to the unbelieving Jews who are Jews by blood only and the Church is called Israel in spirit to contrast it with the nation of Israel formed from the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and was only done so as to make clear that being a Jew and a child of Abraham alone is not enough to be saved, but that one must also become a Jew and child of Abraham inwardly which is only made possible through Christ by faith.

The reason why we are called Israel in the inward sense is because the faith we apply when we placed our trust in Christ for our salvation is the faith that Abraham placed in God for the promises made to him which is why it is written that the faith that Abraham placed in God was credited to him for righteousness. (Jas. 2:23) In the same way, when we believe Christ for our redemption and in the sufficiency of His sacrifice, (Heb. 9:28) it is credited to us for righteousness.

But generally speaking, Christians are not called Jews and the Church is not called Israel, thus giving a clear indication that the Church does not replace the nation of Israel and we do not replace the Jews for as it is written, "all Israel shall be saved" (Rom. 11:26) but if the Church replaced Israel, then Israel would be forever lost thus making a lie out of the scriptures which says that God has not cast off his people (Rom. 11:1) but and which also say that though God should make an end of all nations, He will not make an end of Israel (Jer. 30:11) but has guaranteed them a perpetual existence (Jer. 31:35-37, 33:20-26) and if He is faithful in keeping and fulfilling all things which pertain to the nation of Israel, so we can also be sure that He will be faithful in fulfilling all things pertaining to us who are in Christ, but if He should forever cast away Israel, how then can we be sure that He will not cast His Church away as well?

And if Israel be forever bereft of their inheritance, then how can we be sure that we will be given a perpetual inheritance? But if the Lord proves Himself faithful in fulfilling all that which pertains to one group of people, then we can be all the more certain that He will do the same for us who have place our faith in Him, trusting that He will do all that He has said and fulfill all that has been written.

2. Premillentialists are carnal at their foundational core. They literalize all the clearly spiritual passages that are applied to the church and instead apply them 2000 years later to modern Israel.

There is nothing carnal about taking all scripture at face value. (word for word in its full counsel) What scripture explains or implies as being figurative, we accept as figurative. What the text says is literal, we take literally.

Jesus taught that God would take his blessings away from fleshly Israel who rejected him as Christ and give it to the Gentiles. Jesus clearly taught the Gentile believers would replace Jewish non-believers.

But Jesus did also say that they would never see Him again until they said "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord", (Mt 23:39) still leaving the door open for them to repent; the Apostle Paul also making it abundantly clear that all things could be restored to them again if they did not continue in their unbelief (Rom. 11:12, 15, 23) and despite their unbelief, the Jews are still called "beloved" for the sake of their godly forefather (Rom. 11:28) which why they still retain the gifts and callings of God that were given to them despite their unrepentance, thus making clear that they still retain a status as a nation people given to no other.

If the Church has replaced Israel as a nation and people, why would Paul declare the Jews to still retain a status not given to any other people or nation but only makes sense if the Church has not replaced Israel as a nation or people, but rather an entity destined to coexist with the nation of Israel. One thing the two do have in common: Both have been promised eternal existence.

. Even the apostolic fathers of the first and second century believed and taught "replacement theology":
a. "Christians are the True Israel" (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXIII, 130 AD)
b. "As therefore from the one man Jacob, who was surnamed Israel, all your nation has been called Jacob and Israel; so we from Christ, who begat us unto God, (like Jacob, and Israel, and Judah, and Joseph, and David,) are called and are the true sons of God, and keep the commandments of Christ" (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXIII, 130 AD)
c. "Christ is King of Israel, and Christians are the Israelitic Race. (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXXV, 130 AD)
d. "As, therefore, Christ is the Israel and the Jacob, even so we, who have been quarried out from the bowels of Christ, are the true Israelitic race." (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXXV, 130 AD)
e. "For all the nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in their hearts.' ... But though a man be a Scythian or a Persian, if he has the knowledge of God and of His Christ, and keeps the everlasting righteous decrees, he is circumcised with the good and useful circumcision, and is a friend of God, and God rejoices in his gifts and offerings." (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter XXVIII, 130 AD)...................

That is just one of many early church fathers and not all church fathers agreed that the Church went so far as to replace Israel as a nation. The doctrines that we would understand as Preterist were regarded as heretical by many until they received mainstream acceptance through the teachings of Origen and Augustine.

 

[Contenders Edge]

3. Notice the in the New Testament, circumcision is only done to adult consenting believers, not infants. This change found in the New covenant, was prophesied in Jer 31:31-34 and applied in Hebrews 8:11

I am afraid the cited passage from Hebrews does not mention circumcision.

Unlike the fleshly Israel who had a large population of children who grew up and never knew the Lord, but were supposed to be God's people, in the New Testament, every single Christian "knows the Lord" and makes the confession of faith.

4. Any unbaptized Jew today (or any person for that matter) is not circumcised in the heart and is therefore lost just like the Gentiles.

5. National Israel today actually rejects Jesus Christ and their only hope is to be saved the same way any other Gentile can be saved: faith, repentance, confessing Christ, and water baptism: Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts22:16; 1 Pe 3:21.

And Paul believed that the day would come when all of Israel would be saved on a national scale.(Rom. 9:27, 11:26)

Israel as a physical nation circumcised in the flesh, has been replaced by the church as a spiritual nation circumcised in the heart.


The Apostle Paul does not take it that far as is made clear in Romans chapter 11.


7. This is exactly what you find in Gal 6:15-16. The "Israel of God" is the church who walk by faith in Christ regardless of any physical connection to nationhood.


The Israel of God is not called the Church in that passage. In fact, the title of Israel is almost never applied to the Church save for the purpose of Paul making it clear that being a Jew by blood in and of itself does not save.


8. Christians are the true circumcision. Being a National circumcised Jew is called the "false circumcision". How could it be any clearer?

The false circumcision is better described as those among the Jews who place all confident in the circumcision of the flesh, but remain uncircumcised in heart. It is no different with those who place all confidence in water baptism for their salvation yet remained unbaptized in spirit.

 

[BABerean2]

And Paul believed that the day would come when all of Israel would be saved on a national scale.(Rom. 9:27, 11:26)

The word "nation" is not found in the text.


Rom 9:8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.


Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.


Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB;


There is no Plan B of salvation outside of the Church in the Book of Romans.

.

 

[Contenders Edge]

Notice that in fulfilling Isa 2:2-4, Christ brought about peace between all the nations that were at war.

If that is true, then why are there still wars taking place?

When a Jew becomes a Christian, he ceases to be a Jew and becomes a new creature.

He may become a new creature in spirit but his bloodline remains the same.

In Christ there are no national competing identities like there were under the Old Testament.

I would agree with that much.

National Jews have no advantage over Americans, Canadians, Egyptians or Iranians.

Spiritually and morally speaking, no. But God did undeniably promise to the nation of Israel that He promised to no other nation and that is an eternal existence. (Jer. 30:11, 31:35-37, 33:20-26)
But the promise that everyone from every nation and people does have in Christ is that they themselves are given everlasting life, even if their respective nation does perish, because the Church is given everlasting existence.

Today Christians are God's "chosen race" and they can be from any nation on earth.

We are chosen by adoption but I do not like to use the word "race" since race refers to lineage and bloodline.

 

[Contenders Edge]

The word "nation" is not found in the text.
There is no Plan B of salvation outside of the Church in the Book of Romans.
.

Israel is always in reference to a nation and people. It is not applied in any other way, and when did I ever say there was a Plan B of salvation outside the Church?

 

[Contenders Edge]

Continued..........

H. The allegory of Gal 4:21ff: Israel replace by Church

1. "Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. For it is written, "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND." And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN." So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman. " (Galatians 4:21-31)

2. A simple reading of this text show that physical Israel
associated with physical Jerusalem were "cast out" like Hagar and called faithless people of the flesh and replaced by Christians who are associated with Sarah as people of faith.

3. This passage would come as a shock and insult to associate the national Jews with the descendants of Hagar as Israelites who are themselves the ancient ancestors of modern Arabs.

4. Paul calls the nation of Israel a lot of unbelieving, out of covenant, "cast out" Ishmaelite Arabs.

5. Unbelieving Jews are the likened unto the descendants of Ismael and Christians replace them as the true descendants of Sarah through faith, not flesh.

The actual contrast is drawn between Mt. Sinai where the law was given and the temporal Old Covenant established and the heavenly Jerusalem that is to come which is representative of the everlasting New Covenant in Christ. Jerusalem is tied to Mt. Sinai simply because they continue to enslave themselves to an obsolete covenant that was not meant to be eternal, thinking that they can still obtain by following the law what we have already obtained in Christ which is salvation and restored fellowship with God.