Who gets cast into the everlasting lake of fire?

[Bible Highlighter]

The point I'm getting at, which is really about all of us. Is that if we are saved by grace and sanctified by works thru the holy spirit. How do we know who God will judge saved by grace and and how do we know who's works he will accept? After all I'm sure you don't say that you are the judge of people. Do you?

So then who are we warning about going to the lake of fire for sinning? Who is that?

1 Corinthians 2:16 says we have the mind of Christ.
Jesus never justified sin.
So if we have the mind of Christ, then we cannot justify sin, either.

Think about it.

 

[devin553344]

You are falsely assuming that all believers live in sin when this is not the case.

And that is exactly where your position fails. And I have quoted scripture that indicates those people are sinning worse than those that proclaim they are sinners. Luke 18:9-14

I think I'm getting an idea of what you believe now. Do you think you're not sinning and have been forgiven and need to not sin till you die and be saved? I'm wondering is that what you believe?

 

[devin553344]

Any believer who justifies sin is not going to make it. God is holy and He cannot agree with a person's thinking that they can sin and be in His good graces.

Then what do you make of this: Luke 18:9-14 It appears to shut down your position entirely.

 

[devin553344]

1 Corinthians 2:16 says we have the mind of Christ.
Jesus never justified sin.
So if we have the mind of Christ, then we cannot justify sin, either.

Think about it.

So you think I'm justifying sin? That's your only defense?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So you think I'm justifying sin? That's your only defense?

I prefer not to make it personal or drag you personally into the discussion. I am not interested in doing that. God will judge all men. I am here to preach the Word. We are here to examine what beliefs are true or not true in light of the Bible says.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Then what do you make of this: Luke 18:9-14 It appears to shut down your position entirely.

If this was the only passage in the Bible, you might be onto something here, but is it not the only passage in the Bible. You have to balance in reading that with John 5:14, and John 8:11 where Jesus tells people to "sin no more."

 

[devin553344]

I prefer not to make it personal or drag you personally into the discussion. I am not interested in doing that. God will judge all men. I am here to preach the Word. We are here to examine what beliefs are true or not true in light of the Bible says.

I agree and I doubt you can drag me into the discussion. I have given you scripture and supported my position. Thank you I find your beliefs do not support what I see scripture saying.

 

[devin553344]

If this was the only passage in the Bible, you might be onto something here, but is it not the only passage in the Bible. You have to balance in reading that with John 5:14, and John 8:11 where Jesus tells people to "sin no more."

Sure but what worse was it. Are you suggesting it was the lake of fire? I didn't see that referenced in the scripture.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And that is exactly where your position fails. And I have quoted scripture that indicates those people are sinning worse than those that proclaim they are sinners. Luke 18:9-14

I think I'm getting an idea of what you believe now. Do you think you're not sinning and have been forgiven and need to not sin till you die and be saved? I'm wondering is that what you believe?

Luke 18:9-14 talks about being humble as a result of the tax collector crying out to God that he was a sinner. But does Luke 18:9-14 sound like he is that way his whole life? No. Besides, Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (See 1 Timothy 6:3-4). James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6). So naturally obeying Jesus and following after godliness is the more humble position than continuing in sin (or seeking to justify it as if nobody can obey God ever in this life). So humbleness is involved in both applying God's grace to our lives and in obeying Him.

 

[devin553344]

Luke 18:9-14 talks about being humble as a result of the tax collector crying out to God that he was a sinner. But does Luke 18:9-14 sound like he is that way his whole life? No. Besides, Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (See 1 Timothy 6:3-4). James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. So naturally obeying Jesus and following after godliness is the more humble position than continuing in sin (or seeking to justify it as if nobody can obey God ever in this life).

Yes but what if they cannot abide without sinning? Do you feel they go to the lake of fire? Or do you reserve that judgement for God and his grace, God knowing their works and worth to him?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree and I doubt you can drag me into the discussion. I have given you scripture and supported my position. Thank you I find your beliefs do not support what I see scripture saying.

Who do you think the unprofitable servant who was cast into outer darkness is in Matthew 25:30?

Who do you think the guy who did not help the poor in this life is who was sent into everlasting punishment in Matthew 25:31-46?

Who do you think the individuals are are taken out of Christ's Kingdom because they worked iniquity (sin) in Matthew 13:41-42?

Who do you think Jesus is talking to in regards to the receiving of His words in John 12:48?
Jesus says anyone who does not receive his words, those words will judge them on the last day? How does that work with your belief? Can a person be judged for not receiving Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, and Matthew 12:37?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes but what if they cannot abide without sinning? Do you feel they go to the lake of fire? Or do you reserve that judgement for God and his grace, God knowing their works and worth to him?

If a believer dies in unconfessed grievous sin (like hate, lust, lying, etc.), they are not going to make it. I am sorry. Jesus says narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that finds it.

 

[devin553344]

Who do you think the unprofitable servant who was cast into outer darkness is in Matthew 25:30?

Who do you think the guy who did not help the poor in this life is who was sent into everlasting punishment in Matthew 25:31-46?

Who do you think the individuals are are taken out of Christ's Kingdom because they worked iniquity (sin) in Matthew 13:41-42?

Who do you think Jesus is talking to in regards to the receiving of His words in John 12:48?
Jesus says anyone who does not receive his words, those words will judge them on the last day? How does that work with your belief? Can a person be judged for not receiving Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, and Matthew 12:37?

Then of course, if you would like, we're all going to hell. Sure, if that is what you would like to discuss.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Then of course, if you would like, we're all going to hell. Sure, if that is what you would like to discuss.

Well, that is not really addressing the questions I asked. There should be an answer to the questions I posed. If these things happened in Scripture to prove that we cannot obey God, or it is futile to live righteously then where is the context that states this?

 

[devin553344]

If a believer dies in unconfessed grievous sin (like hate, lust, lying, etc.), they are not going to make it. I am sorry. Jesus says narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that finds it.

So what if he confesses? And says "I am a sinner God, have mercy on me" like I quoted in Luke 18:9-14

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So what if he confesses? And says "I am a sinner God, have mercy on me" like I quoted in Luke 18:9-14

If one intends to sin again, then they are not really sorry. Jesus also said to "sin no more" to two people (See John 5:14, and John 8:11). For there is a worldly sorrow that leads to death, and a Godly sorrow that leads to repentance that is not to be regretted (See 2 Corinthians 7:10).

 

[devin553344]

Well, that is not really addressing the questions I asked. There should be an answer to the questions I posed. If these things happened in Scripture to prove that we cannot obey God, or it is futile to live righteously then where is the context that states this?

We cannot live righteously is correct. But it is not futile to live righteously. What does this scripture mean to you? 1 Corinthians 15:31 "I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So what if he confesses? And says "I am a sinner God, have mercy on me" like I quoted in Luke 18:9-14

Is a man who cheats on his wife really sorry if he just voices those words and yet he has no intention of giving up his unfaithful lifestyle? No. It is the same with God. We really have to be sorry in order for God's grace to work.

 

[devin553344]

If one intends to sin again, then they are not really sorry. Jesus also said to "sin no more" to two people (See John 5:14, and John 8:11). For there is a worldly sorrow that leads to death, and a Godly sorrow that leads to repentance that is not to be regretted (See 2 Corinthians 7:10).

See that's not what it says, you made up your own way. It just says he was humble and asked God for mercy.

 

[devin553344]

Is a man who cheats on his wife really sorry if he just voices those words and yet he has no intention of giving up his unfaithful lifestyle? No. It is the same with God. We really have to be sorry in order for God's grace to work.

So you are sinless now?