Do you have to be a good servant to be saved?

[BNR32FAN]

Well obviously not,that's why Christ is telling them they lost their first love which is the faith for God,now they've fallen into false worship and need to repent/change their mind and come back to God.

Bear in mind this is a whole group and church he's talking to and not an individual.

Ok so groups can lose their salvation but not individuals?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Following church teachings and following Christ are often very different,because the churches go against the teachings of Christ to please themselves.

Really? Like how? Can you give me some examples?

 

[BNR32FAN]

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

It’s not only The Fathers “will” (desire) that everyone who looks on the Son and believes shall have eternal life but it is also his “will” (desire) that all men repent and be saved and come to the knowledge of truth and that none should perish. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 2 Peter 3:9.

 

[BNR32FAN]

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

It’s not only The Fathers “will” (desire) that everyone who looks on the Son and believes shall have eternal life but it is also his “will” (desire) that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Daniel C]

Ok so groups can lose their salvation but not individuals?

This is Christ warning a head of time in visions. That is what the book of Revelation is about,so adreesing different churches for their different behavior.

No a saved person cannot lose their salvation once they are born again. They are sealed until the day of redemption,the punishment received is worldly punishment if we sin,not salvation loss.

 

[Daniel C]

Really? Like how? Can you give me some examples?

Christ taught this:

''For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.''


And most of the Churches teach mankind needs to add their own work or merit to be saved. I do not see that in Christs statement.

 

[Danthemailman]

It’s not only The Fathers “will” (desire) that everyone who looks on the Son and believes shall have eternal life but it is also his “will” (desire) that all men repent and be saved and come to the knowledge of truth and that none should perish. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 2 Peter 3:9.

Those who believe in Him unto salvation have already repented and have come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is Christ warning a head of time in visions. That is what the book of Revelation is about,so adreesing different churches for their different behavior.

No a saved person cannot lose their salvation once they are born again. They are sealed until the day of redemption,the punishment received is worldly punishment if we sin,not salvation loss.

Really?

When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.


Galatians 5:19-21


Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.


Matthew 3:10


Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.


Revelation 21:27


Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.


Ephesians 5:3-6

Jesus replied, “The Son of Man is the farmer who plants the good seed. The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the Kingdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one. The enemy who planted the weeds among the wheat is the devil. The harvest is the end of the world, and the harvesters are the angels. “Just as the weeds are sorted out and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the world. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!


Matthew 13:37-43


A faithful, sensible servant is one to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his other household servants and feeding them. If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. I tell you the truth, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. But what if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 24:45-51


All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children. “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.


Revelation 21:7-8

 

[BNR32FAN]

Those who believe in Him unto salvation have already repented and have come to the knowledge of the truth.

You missed the point. My point is that the word “will” does not always mean something which God has decreed to be true but can also mean what God desires to be true. All men will not repent and be saved despite God’s “will” (desire) for them to do so. In the same manner not all who believe will be saved despite God’s “will” (desire) for them to do so.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Christ taught this:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.''


And most of the Churches teach mankind needs to add their own work or merit to be saved. I do not see that in Christs statement.

believe

G4100


Lemma:

πιστεύω


Transliteration:

pisteúō


Pronounce:

pist-yoo'-o


Part of Speech:

Verb


Language:

greek


Description:

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in a) of the thing believed

1) to credit, have confidence b) in a moral or religious reference

1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul

2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith

3) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith

2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity a) to be intrusted with a thing


believers

G4103


Lemma:

πιστός


Transliteration:

pistós


Pronounce:

pis-tos'


Part of Speech:

Adjective


Language:

greek


Description:

1) trusty, faithful a) of persons who show themselves faithful in the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties b) one who kept his plighted faith, worthy of trust c) that can be relied on

2) easily persuaded a) believing, confiding, trusting b) in the NT one who trusts in God's promises

1) one who is convinced that Jesus has been raised from the dead

2) one who has become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah and author of salvation

faith

G4102


Lemma:

πίστις


Transliteration:

pístis


Pronounce:

pis'-tis


Part of Speech:

Noun Feminine


Language:

greek


Description:

1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it a) relating to God

1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ b) relating to Christ

1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God c) the religious beliefs of Christians d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

2) fidelity, faithfulness a) the character of one who can be relied on

 

[Root of Jesse]

Quote the actually scripture so we can examine it properly. Thanks.

Can't find it, huh? Matthew 25, the entire chapter. All about doing good works for the sake of doing good works, because you know the will of your Master. (Not doing them to please your master-works salvation)

 

[Daniel C]

Really?

When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.


Galatians 5:19-21


Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.


Matthew 3:10


Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.


Revelation 21:27


Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.


Ephesians 5:3-6

Jesus replied, “The Son of Man is the farmer who plants the good seed. The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the Kingdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one. The enemy who planted the weeds among the wheat is the devil. The harvest is the end of the world, and the harvesters are the angels. “Just as the weeds are sorted out and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the world. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!


Matthew 13:37-43


A faithful, sensible servant is one to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his other household servants and feeding them. If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. I tell you the truth, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. But what if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 24:45-51


All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children. “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.


Revelation 21:7-8

You are misplacing the order of these ''sin lists'' that condemn people.

The authors are warning the unsaved workers of iniquity will not be saved. It does not say a person is saved and then losses their salvation.

Ephesians 5:1-7

''Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
nor this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Be not ye therefore partakers with them.''

You see,nothing about salvation loss and a distinction made between the heathen and Christians. A not what to do to be saved. Nothing about losing salvation.

All the ''sin lists'' are for this purpose. They are prerequisites for the unsaved to find salvation not routines for the saved.

If you choose your plan over Gods,you will not be saved.

 

[Daniel C]

Can't find it, huh? Matthew 25, the entire chapter. All about doing good works for the sake of doing good works, because you know the will of your Master. (Not doing them to please your master-works salvation)

Of course I could. The reason I asked is because you blended your commentary and scripture together as if the two are the same and I know they're not.

I was being polite by not accusing you and just asking you to present your position.

Matthew chapter 25 is all parables and should be treated as such. Used for teaching or learning purposes but not base doctrines off.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You are misplacing the order of these ''sin lists'' that condemn people.

The authors are warning the unsaved workers of iniquity will not be saved. It does not say a person is saved and then losses their salvation.

Ephesians 5:1-7

''Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
nor this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Be not ye therefore partakers with them.''

You see,nothing about salvation loss and a distinction made between the heathen and Christians. A not what to do to be saved. Nothing about losing salvation.

All the ''sin lists'' are for this purpose. They are prerequisites for the unsaved to find salvation not routines for the saved.

If you choose your plan over Gods,you will not be saved.

“And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among YOU, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:2-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Daniel C]

“And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among YOU, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:2-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Ok you say you're not following a works salvation so try this challenge:

Don't go to church,Don't read your Bible,Don't pray,Don't do any religious activities. Do this for two weeks and see what happens.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The authors are warning the unsaved workers of iniquity will not be saved.

The letter is written to those who are saved.

“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭NASB‬‬

What is Paul talking about in Ephesians 5? Well let’s look at the end of Ephesians 4 and see how he proceeds into chapter 5.

“Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another. BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:25-32‬ ‭NASB

Notice Paul begins chapter 5 with the word “Therefore” indicating that he is continuing the message from chapter 4.

“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Paul says in chapter 4 DO NOT GRIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT. Now do the “unsaved workers of inequity” possess the Holy Spirit? No they do not. There is no indication anywhere in chapter 4 or 5 that Paul has changed the audience he is addressing. So I’m sorry but your wrong Paul is undoubtedly addressing believers who possess the Holy Spirit. The same people he has been addressing throughout the entire epistle.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ok you say you're not following a works salvation so try this challenge:

Don't go to church,Don't read your Bible,Don't pray,Don't do any religious activities. Do this for two weeks and see what happens.

No I won’t do that because it won’t change a thing. You want me to stop serving God in order to prove a point to you but you can’t even accept what the scriptures say when they’re presented right before you. So no I won’t forsake our Heavenly Father to appease you.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ok you say you're not following a works salvation so try this challenge:

Don't go to church,Don't read your Bible,Don't pray,Don't do any religious activities. Do this for two weeks and see what happens.

Let’s go back to my post you ignored when I asked “so you believe in faith alone?” Let’s say I truly believe that Jesus Christ has paid for all my sins and I decide to go out and begin going to churches of different denominations and killing everyone I see at each place. Then when the police arrive I begin killing them to and in the process I get shot and die. Am I saved? If not, why?

 

[Daniel C]

No I won’t do that because it won’t change a thing. You want me to stop serving God in order to prove a point to you but you can’t even accept what the scriptures say when they’re presented right before you. So no I won’t forsake our Heavenly Father to appease you.

If abstaining from these things won't change a thing why do you do them in the first place?

You also say you won't ''forsake the heavenly father'', so you admit by removing your works you will lose salvation?

 

[Daniel C]

Let’s go back to my post you ignored when I asked “so you believe in faith alone?” Let’s say I truly believe that Jesus Christ has paid for all my sins and I decide to go out and begin going to churches of different denominations and killing everyone I see at each place. Then when the police arrive I begin killing them to and in the process I get shot and die. Am I saved? If not, why?

A person who has received the free eternal gift of salvation after being born again can never lose their salvation.

They can be scourge by God in this life but they cannot lose salvation.

Hebrews 12:6
''For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.''