Commandments Question

[Vicky gould]

I answered them in two different ways. See Post #161, and Post #172 please.
The post # is located at the top right of each person's post in white lettering (on a blue background).

Your the one who suggested a third covenant in your previous post. I have been advocating the fact that there are only two major covenants (i.e. the Old Testament, and the New Testament).



Look. I am not into rewriting what the Word of God plainly says. If you believe "drink it new" means fulfilment, then you need to prove that with Scripture and not just because you say so or because somebody else says so.



Also, no verse that I know of says the wedding supper of the Lamb will start a New Covenant. Scripture says a covenant is dedicated in blood.

"Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood."
(Hebrews 9:18).

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"
(Hebrews 9:14).


Now about your covenants that are still in effect for unbelievers not the Redeemed. The Old Testament Law has never been fulfilled for unbelievers. That covenant, for unbelievers only, will be fulfilled ay the GWTJ and the goats are tossed into the LOF.

[/QUOTE]

No I suggest a third covenant in response to your claim not all of the N.T. Being fulfilled. You try to clip on a couple of prophecies claiming they are now laws. If so just tell me. I haven’t asked this by what biblical authority do you drop the portions of the Law you claim were dropped I.e. ceremonial? There must be biblical teaching for such a call as this? Surely the Lord would have made it known to Israel through a prophet or somehow. Please open my understanding Lord as I want to please you and do what your call on my life. Thank you Lord and please have your Holy Spirit lead us in these messages as we are sitting in the chair of teachers and know how seriously you take anyone who teaches. Thank you Lord and please bless and protect all of us who seek know, your Son, your word and your ways.
S

 

[klutedavid]

I believe the AMP translation helps to clarify what is actually being said in Romans 5:20.

"But the Law came to increase and expand [the awareness of] the trespass [by defining and unmasking sin]. But where sin increased, [God’s remarkable, gracious gift of] grace [His unmerited favor] has surpassed it and increased all the more," (Romans 5:20 AMP).

Your translation actually destroys the entire reason for the law. God gave the law to Israel so that their trespass would be multiplied. Their rebellion would be absolute and this was proven when these self righteous, legal fanatics murdered the law giver.

The law had really only one purpose and that was to exaggerate that rebellion against God which is what it did.

I am at a loss as to why anyone would accept the AMP version on Romans 5:20.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Pre-Kingdom, post Kingdom

I don't see it that way. Nowhere does the Bible define the Old Covenant as Pre-Kingdom and the New Covenant as Post-Kingdom. Jesus was making changes to the Old Law during His earthly ministry. He was giving us New Testament Kingdom teachings before the New Testament or New Covenant went into effect officially with His death upon the cross.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No I suggest a third covenant in response to your claim not all of the N.T. Being fulfilled. You try to clip on a couple of prophecies claiming they are now laws. If so just tell me. I haven’t asked this by what biblical authority do you drop the portions of the Law you claim were dropped I.e. ceremonial? There must be biblical teaching for such a call as this? Surely the Lord would have made it known to Israel through a prophet or somehow. Please open my understanding Lord as I want to please you and do what your call on my life. Thank you Lord and please have your Holy Spirit lead us in these messages as we are sitting in the chair of teachers and know how seriously you take anyone who teaches. Thank you Lord and please bless and protect all of us who seek know, your Son, your word and your ways.

Not interested in a discussion on this with you because your beliefs or claims are too far out there and you have not presented any verses or passages to support them.

 

[timothyu]

The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more...

Which is what I said...'I don't know about that, but the will of God makes the will of man stand out by comparison under the light of scrutiny. As a result we are left to chose for ourselves which is the more passive and productive as a way of life and governance. (self serving or servitude)'

 

[timothyu]

He was giving us New Testament Kingdom teachings before the New Testament or New Covenant went into effect officially with His death upon the cross.

Yes just as God gave us His will, the foundation of the Kingdom, ever since the Garden, His will over that of man. The Kingdom was Jesus' good news and He said it was why He was sent. He said it is finished on the cross when His total acceptance of the will of the Father over rode any will of His own, and the Kingdom came to fruition.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your translation actually destroys the entire reason for the law. God gave the law to Israel so that their trespass would be multiplied. Their rebellion would be absolute and this was proven when these self righteous, legal fanatics murdered the law giver.

The law had really only one purpose and that was to exaggerate that rebellion against God which is what it did.

I am at a loss as to why anyone would accept the AMP version on Romans 5:20.

I believe the problem with the interpretation you present is that it places GOD into a position of influencing others to sin (and that is not possible). GOD did not bring forth the written Law so that men could sin more (if that is what you are suggesting). That would make GOD the author of evil (if such a thing were so). Why would GOD want men to sin more? That does not compute. GOD is holy and just.

Did men during the time of the global flood need a written Law in order to sin more? No. They were plenty wicked enough all on their own without any written Law.

The Law merely exposed the offense so as to abound all the more openly for all to see. But where sin appeared to abound openly in light of the reflection of the Old Law, grace abounded all the more in the fact that the Gentiles were included into God's program of salvation and it would be the kind of grace that would last for all eternity for them. So where the offense appeared to abound by the Law (in the fact that it reveals sin that was always present in the evilness of mankind), grace did much more abound in the fact that salvation went beyond the Jews.

 

[Vicky gould]

Okay. You are out there in left field again, and you are not offering any Scriptural backing for your conclusions. I am moving on from our conversation unless you sufficiently explain the beliefs you propose with the Bible.

Good evening to you in the Lord.

I am so sorry I thought we were discussing the beginning of the Lord’s death as the Passover Lamb? Was the death of the Lord as the Passover Lamb given in the Garden and then with increasing clarity that John the immerser proclamation of the Christ ‘behold the Lamb..’ lucky guess by John or possibly an increasing revelation of who the Passover Lamb of God would be until that great prophecy of the Garden had come in the flesh. I am out in left field but I still believe it was through increasingly clarity. Please don’t give up you are so close to answer the needed answers. Just answer:

OC fulfilled or not. How fulfilled

NC. Partially fulfilled still waiting for what to fulfilled?

No other covenant waiting to be fulfilled despite Lord’s claim
He will not drink until it is fulfilled in heaven.

I am not even asking for the biblical teaching about parts of the Law no longer being part of the Mosaic Covenant

If you are leaving I pray the Lord give both of us the clarity on these things we need as they hinge both eternal life or eternal punishment. Thank you Lord for your people, especially those we disagree with. In your Holy Name we ask your faithfulness and mercy now and always. Amen

 

[Vicky gould]

Yes just as God gave us His will, the foundation of the Kingdom, ever since the Garden, His will over that of man. The Kingdom was Jesus' good news and He said it was why He was sent. He said it is finished on the cross when His total acceptance of the will of the Father over rode any will of His own, and the Kingdom came to fruition.

I believe the claim is ‘The Good News of Jesus Christ.’ Okay this is an interesting claim because the Lord claimed His kingdom was already present in the hearts of His kingdom. Please tell where in the world His kingdom has come I am really wanting to see it. 60 plus years and I have managed not to see it. He submitted to the Father’s Will His entire life and continues to do so waiting for the Father to send Him back.
He was sent because God so loved the world His Son would die for all the sin of all who believe that my brother is the Good News of Jesus Christ!

 

[Vicky gould]

Yes just as God gave us His will, the foundation of the Kingdom, ever since the Garden, His will over that of man. The Kingdom was Jesus' good news and He said it was why He was sent. He said it is finished on the cross when His total acceptance of the will of the Father over rode any will of His own, and the Kingdom came to fruition.

Wasn’t His will shown in the death of the Lamb From before the foundation of the world were set in place. God never intended for man to go to the LOF he created it for Satan and his fallen angels. Men only enter it because they refused the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world and now have to pay on their own wage of sin, death.

 

[timothyu]

I believe the claim is ‘The Good News of Jesus Christ.

What does this say?

Matthew 24: 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 1: 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 4: 23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom...

etc

 

[Vicky gould]

Which is what I said...'I don't know about that, but the will of God makes the will of man stand out by comparison under the light of scrutiny. As a result we are left to chose for ourselves which is the more passive and productive as a way of life and governance. (self serving or servitude)'

Apples and oranges . How can you not know and not research it? Do you not know that if we misuse the Law it is sin? That should give every believer pause to seek the truth as the bereans by testing all things. The Lord will not say to any of us, ‘it’s okay you didn’t know this particular teaching.

Why does Paul ask by what is bragging stopped Law or Grace ? Thanks

 

[timothyu]

Wasn’t His will shown

His will is we do the opposite of man who's will is self serving. Has been since the Garden yet man all along has done it their way instead.

 

[Vicky gould]

What does this say?

Matthew 24: 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 1: 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 4: 23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom...

etc

Nailed that, almost, the Lord in each instance is the Good News

 

[timothyu]

Do you not know that if we misuse the Law it is sin?

Sin is simply putting our will ahead of God's. It was the original sin. The Law was one form of His will. So misusing the law as you put it, is simply putting our will ahead of His.

 

[timothyu]

The Lord will not say to any of us, ‘it’s okay you didn’t know this particular teaching.

That is what He said to Adam and Eve before they ate the apple. After they knew good and evil they were no longer free of judgement like the rest of creation still is for doing good and evil, as they haven't a clue which is which nor care..

 

[timothyu]

Nailed that, almost, the Lord in each instance is the Good News

Even though it says plainly that the Kingdom is.

 

[Vicky gould]

Even though it says plainly that the Kingdom is.

Think I will step back and let the angels take this one since they were sent by God and I have only been reading His Word.

The word Gospel is the Greek word euaggelion it means good news. But the angel said to them, Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord, (Luke 2:10-11). When the angels announced the birth of Jesus they called Him, a Savior. A Savior is one who rescues people, like a fireman who rescues someone from a burning building. The name Jesus means, God saves.

 

[timothyu]

The word Gospel is the Greek word euaggelion it means good news. But the angel said to them, Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord, (Luke 2:10-11). When the angels announced the birth of Jesus they called Him, a Savior. A Savior is one who rescues people, like a fireman who rescues someone from a burning building. The name Jesus means, God saves.

Yes Jesus brought the goods news of the Kingdom. His own words verify it even if you would like to have it fit some other doctrine. It is the only Gospel/good news from God. No Kingdom, no need for a King or resurrection.

His entire ministry was about the Kingdom and how the foundation of which was God's will (giving examples of His will) was contrary to the self serving will of man which is the foundation of the world we have built here in our own image. He brought us a counter culture and gave us a choice as to which we would chose. Repent/changed, or reap your only reward which is what you have gained here..Everything He did at the will of the Father was to bring the Kingdom into being.He was our Saviour fro bringing the Kingdom to fruition and the Kingdom was a saviour from the original penalty of death.

 

[Vicky gould]

That is what He said to Adam and Eve before they ate the apple. After they knew good and evil they were no longer free of judgement like the rest of creation still is for doing good and evil, as they haven't a clue which is which nor care..

As matter of fact Adam is the only one we are sure heard the first, and only Law do not eat. Never spoken by the Lord to E

That is what He said to Adam and eating the apple. After they knew good and evil they were no longer free of judgement like the rest of creation still is for doing good and evil, as they haven't a clue which is which nor care..

sorry never identified as an apple. Fanciful deduction by men came up with that one.As matter of fact Adam is the only one we are sure heard the first, and only Law do not eat. Never spoken by the Lord to Eve. After Eve and Adam sought to cover their own sin the Lord showed them the rudimentary form of the Lamb slain from the beginning of the world and covered them with the Innocent slain for the Guilty.

You can claim that this is an unidentified animal but lets look at the events of our two parents committing sin and not giving a damn.

Adam and Eve knew where they must over the sacrifice, when to offer the appointed time and what they were supposed to bring brought by Abel and rejected by Cain.