Do you have to be a good servant to be saved?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You made a claim about it being written that a saved person can renounce their salvation,now challenged you can't provide it.

That's not very honest of you.

Or, instead of making a needless claim, you could do like the Bereans and SEARCH Scripture for yourself... Yahuweh Willing, and ask Him to Reveal His Meaning to you as He does reveal His meaning to little children, according to Jesus the Messiah.

 

[☦Marius☦]

I disagree to ''grieve the Holy Spirit'' can lose salvation. That is your interpretation and wording.

''Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.''

So this verse about bearing no fruit has no mention about salvation loss,only disappoint about lack of productivity.


''If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.''

To ''abide'' in Christ is to dwell or believe in Christ. Of course non-believers are condemned,again not a loss of salvation but referring to the unsaved who are not abiding in Christ.

17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

In Pauls letter the people who were ''broken off'' did so because of the lack of faith. It was never there to begin with-they probably trusted in self-works for salvation.

11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Denying Christ in this context is rejecting him as Savior=unsaved. The genuine believers who actually see Christ as their savior call out to him in faith and are saved,eternally.

I used to have this level of mental gymnastics back when I was Baptist. Once you let it go and read the text as is, especially in greek- its obvious what is meant.

 

[☦Marius☦]

I'm sorry but none of these verses you quoted actually state a person who is born again can actually lose their salvation.

We see in the Bible about the Holy Spirit entering and indwelling into saved people,causing a regeneration or rebirth but there's no talk about the spirit exit after a person has accepted Christ,causing a ''degeneration'' of some sort. Why is that?

I'm not that good at dissecting posts so if you want a particular verse addressed put forward a couple that best supports your belief and i'll try to deal with that.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

 

[Daniel C]

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Well this one is a common error.

The example doesn't actually state they were saved,''enlightened'' is not ''saved'' is it,and ''tasted'' is not ''received'' the eternal gift of salvation?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Well this one is a common error.

The example doesn't actually state they were saved,''enlightened'' is not ''saved'' is it,and ''tasted'' is not ''received'' the eternal gift of salvation?

Another common error.
Probably more common.
Thinking "enlightened" and "tasting the heavenlies" is possible for anyone in the flesh.

 

[Daniel C]

I used to have this level of mental gymnastics back when I was Baptist. Once you let it go and read the text as is, especially in greek- its obvious what is meant.

Paul never preached works salvation and was adamant salvation was an eternal free gift.

Do yourself a favour and return to being a baptist, the new IFB. It's your best shot at being saved.

 

[Daniel C]

Another common error.
Probably more common.
Thinking "enlightened" and "tasting the heavenlies" is possible for anyone in the flesh.

You don't use scripture, these are just words you're saying and to be honest sir I'm not interested in your opinion I'm looking for Gods word from the Bible. If you can marry the two up together,great.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You don't use scripture, these are just words you're saying and to be honest sir I'm not interested in your opinion I'm looking for Gods word from the Bible.

To say that I don't use Scripture shows your lack of knowledge, as I do rely totally on what God Reveals in Scripture Always.
No opinions are lasting , only God's.
If you are looking for God's Word (/Truth), good, keep looking, and you will find it --- that is NOT MY OPINION , but rather God's Promise. (in HIS WORD)

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Servants of God, unbelievers? How is an unbeliever a servant of God?

You know Jesus shared these two stories with his disciples. If he was sharing them with the crowd it would make more sense that servants also could mean unbelievers.

When Jesus is referring to servants in His parable, he was talking about normal secular servants employed by a master. He was talking to Jews, not Christian believers, and He was explaining how the Jew had treated all the prophets before Him and how they were going to treat Him.

Ahh... accurate exegesis, thou art a jewel!

 

[Daniel C]

To say that I don't use Scripture shows your lack of knowledge, as I do rely totally on what God Reveals in Scripture Always.
No opinions are lasting , only God's.
If you are looking for God's Word (/Truth), good, keep looking, and you will find it --- that is NOT MY OPINION , but rather God's Promise. (in HIS WORD)

You don't quote scripture as God intended.

Even Satan recited his own twisted version of scripture in an attempt to corrupt the lord Jesus.

Why don't you go back to the OP and address that directly and show us your knowledge.

 

[zoidar]

Ahh... accurate exegesis, thou art a jewel!

As long as it fits your theology, right?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

If that is true I wasn't saved for a year or so... I don't know... maybe I wasn't ...

Well to put a more personal touch on this, I too was converted in the 80's then fell back into what I called at that time justifiable sin meaning,I had the once saved always saved mind set. As I grew older,I had a major conviction moment and FINALLY realized that I was being a hypocrite. From that day forward, I did not "quench" the Holy Spirit when He moved me in the direction of righteousness. I am a more fulfilled person now with less bondage through sin.
Blessings

 

[zoidar]

Well to put a more personal touch on this, I too was converted in the 80's then fell back into what I called at that time justifiable sin meaning,I had the once saved always saved mind set. As I grew older,I had a major conviction moment and FINALLY realized that I was being a hypocrite. From that day forward, I did not "quench" the Holy Spirit when He moved me in the direction of righteousness. I am a more fulfilled person now with less bondage through sin.
Blessings

Thanks for sharing! God bless!
/P

 

[BNR32FAN]

Your opening statement is incomplete:

''For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.''

If God gives me a gift and says I can keep it forever only two thing can happen after the transaction-

1) God reclaims the gift he said I could keep forever,so he lied.

2) The gift is honoured and salvation is eternal,God told the truth.

Which one is it?

You haven’t received salvation yet. There is a reason it’s called the new covenant. If you break the requirements of the covenant it is null and void.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes of course. But I meant when Jesus says we are to visit those in jail etc. he speaks specifically about visiting Christians in jail. If you give food to starving Christians you give food to Christ, since Christ is the head of the body of Christians, believers.

Of course we are to give all people food, but especially are we to help our sisters and brothers in Christ. That's what I meant concerning Matthew 25:31-46.

No I believe He is referring to loving everyone. He did say love your enemy.


“"You have heard that it was said, ' AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. "You have heard that it was said, ' YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-48‬ ‭NASB‬‬

By doing this we can be a light to those who are still in darkness.

 

[Daniel C]

You haven’t received salvation yet. There is a reason it’s called the new covenant. If you break the requirements of the covenant it is null and void.

Well I'm confident I am saved but let's compare our salvation plans.

If you were to die tonight how sure are you you'd go to heaven?

 

[zoidar]

No I believe He is referring to loving everyone. He did say love your enemy.


“"You have heard that it was said, ' AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. "You have heard that it was said, ' YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-48‬ ‭NASB‬‬

By doing this we can be a light to those who are still in darkness.

I have always taken it as you describe. Just quite recently I been thinking that it might be especially about helping Christians. But of course there are the verses in Matthew 5 you are referring to. Thanks, just wanted to know how you saw it. God bless!

 

[Jonaitis]

Contradiction

It isn't.

It is by faith in Christ we are saved, but that faith is followed by works.

 

[zoidar]

Well to put a more personal touch on this, I too was converted in the 80's then fell back into what I called at that time justifiable sin meaning,I had the once saved always saved mind set. As I grew older,I had a major conviction moment and FINALLY realized that I was being a hypocrite. From that day forward, I did not "quench" the Holy Spirit when He moved me in the direction of righteousness. I am a more fulfilled person now with less bondage through sin.
Blessings

Just one last thing, do you think you were saved during this time of "justible sin"?

 

[Not David]

It isn't.

It is by faith in Christ we are saved, but that faith is followed by works.

What do you mean by works? Good deads? Prayer? Fasting?