Do you have to be a good servant to be saved?

Do you have to be a good servant to be saved?

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 37.1%
  • No

    Votes: 14 40.0%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 14.3%

  • Total voters
    35

Maria Billingsley

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Just one last thing, do you think you were saved during this time of "justible sin"?
You know, I was quenching the Holy Spirit. I felt guilty, continued in my sin of fornication while justifying it. So I have no idea other than, when the light bulb went on I knew I was hurting my Lord by my actions. And who wants to hurt Him!
Blessings
 
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Jonaitis

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What do you mean by works? Good deads? Prayer? Fasting?

LBCF Chapter 16: Good Works
Paragraph 1. Good works are only such as God has commanded in his Holy Word,1 and not such as without the warrant thereof are devised by men out of blind zeal, or upon any pretense of good intentions.2

1 Mic. 6:8; Heb. 13:21
2 Matt. 15:9; Isa. 29:13


Paragraph 2. These good works, done in obedience to God’s commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith;3 and by them believers manifest their thankfulness,4 strengthen their assurance,5 edify their brethren, adorn the profession of the gospel,6 stop the mouths of the adversaries, and glory God,7 whose workmanship they are, created in Christ Jesus thereunto,8 that having their fruit unto holiness they may have the end eternal life.9

3 James 2:18,22
4 Ps. 116:12,13
5 1 John 2:3,5; 2 Pet. 1:5-11
6 Matt. 5:16
7 1 Tim. 6:1; 1 Pet. 2:15; Phil. 1:11
8 Eph. 2:10
9 Rom 6:22


Paragraph 3. Their ability to do good works is not all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ;10 and that they may be enabled thereunto, besides the graces they have already received, there is necessary an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit, to work in them and to will and to do of his good pleasure;11 yet they are not bound to perform any duty, unless upon a special motion of the Spirit, but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them.12

10 John 15:4,5
11 2 Cor. 3:5; Phil. 2:13
12 Phil. 2:12; Heb. 6:11,12; Isa. 64:7


Paragraph 4. They who in their obedience attain to the greatest height which is possible in this life, are so far from being able to supererogate, and to do more than God requires, as that they fall short of much which in duty they are bound to do.13

13 Job 9:2, 3; Gal. 5:17; Luke 17:10

Paragraph 5. We cannot by our best works merit pardon of sin or eternal life at the hand of God, by reason of the great disproportion that is between them and the glory to come, and the infinite distance that is between us and God, whom by them we can neither profit nor satisfy for the debt of our former sins;14 but when we have done all we can, we have done but our duty, and are unprofitable servants; and because they are good they proceed from his Spirit,15 and as they are wrought by us they are defiled and mixed with so much weekness and imperfection, that they cannot endure the severity of God’s punishment.16

14 Rom. 3:20; Eph. 2:8,9; Rom. 4:6
15 Gal. 5:22,23
16 Isa. 64:6; Ps. 43:2


Paragraph 6. Yet notwithstanding the persons of believers being accepted through Christ, their good works also are accepted in him;17 not as thought they were in this life wholly unblamable and unreprovable in God’s sight, but that he, looking upon them in his Son, is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere, although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfection.18

17 Eph. 1:5; 1 Pet. 1:5
18 Matt. 25:21,23; Heb. 6:10


Paragraph 7. Works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may do things which God commands, and of good use both to themselves and to others;19 yet because they proceed not from a heart purified by faith,20 nor are done in a right manner according to the Word,21 nor to a right end, the glory of God,22 they are therfore sinful, and cannot please God, nor make a man meet to receive the grace from God,23 and yet their neglect for them is more sinful and displeasing to God.24

19 2 Kings 10:30; 1 Kings 21:27,29
20 Gen. 4:5; Heb. 11:4,6
21 1 Cor. 13:1
22 Matt. 6:2,5
23 Amos 5:21,22; Rom. 9:16; Titus 3:5
24 Job 21:14,15; Matt. 25:41-43
 
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zoidar

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You know, I was quenching the Holy Spirit. I felt guilty, continued in my sin of fornication while justifying it. So I have no idea other than, when the light bulb went on I knew I was hurting my Lord by my actions. And who wants to hurt Him!
Blessings

Hey, that sounds a lot like my story! Helps greatly to know that others been in the same situation. Maybe I can share my story later on a PM?
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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As long as it fits your theology, right?
My theology has little to do with it. Accurate exegesis is considering who said it, who were the listeners, what was the speaker's purpose, and how his listeners would have understood what He was saying.

The Scripture says that Jesus spoke in parables to the common people because that would be the only way they would understand His teaching. But when He spoke to and taught His disciples He gave the meaning of the parable and gave His teaching clearly to them.

So, it appears that He was not directing what He was saying to the disciples, but to the whole group of people who were listening to him, and there were ordinary people and religious leaders among them.

In both of these parables Jesus was alluding to the Jewish leaders.
 
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☦Marius☦

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Well this one is a common error.

The example doesn't actually state they were saved,''enlightened'' is not ''saved'' is it,and ''tasted'' is not ''received'' the eternal gift of salvation?

Are you saying one can know truth without God? Tasted is a reference to the Eucharist, something only Christians can receive and truly taste.

Its not works based salvation, that is what you are misunderstanding. Scripture teaches that both Faith AND works are required for salvation, because one cannot exist without the other. True Faith cannot exist without bearing good fruit, and also does not grow without good fruit, and works are useless without faith to sanctify them.

Salvation is like a flower that grows on the vine of Faith. Works are the water that nourishes that faith. Water by itself is of little value without something to nurture. A plant cannot live without water, and a flower cannot exist without a plant. It is that simple but anti Catholic paranoia has killed this teaching among modern protestant/evangelicals.
Paul never preached works salvation and was adamant salvation was an eternal free gift.
Do yourself a favour and return to being a baptist, the new IFB. It's your best shot at being saved.
I'll pass. There are more heresies within the Baptist theology then I could bare to be part of. There is a reason I left that Church in seminary. Not in the least that Baptists have to ignore certain parts of scripture or twist them to fit Billy Graham's vision for Christianity. I came to Orthodoxy because I saw Orthodox who actually bore spiritual fruit, fruit to a level I had never seen among Baptists.

Well I'm confident I am saved but let's compare our salvation plans.

If you were to die tonight how sure are you you'd go to heaven?
Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,

It is up to God to judge whether I will be saved or not. I am a poor servant, I really don't deserve unity with God. It is up to God to decide whether I have had enough faith in this modern age with my mental illness.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Hey, that sounds a lot like my story! Helps greatly to know that others been in the same situation. Maybe I can share my story later on a PM?
Sure.
Blessings
 
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Chris V++

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Scripture teaches that both Faith AND works are required for salvation, because one cannot exist without the other. .
How is this different from believing that true faith produces works, and works are an authentic sign of faith? Would you agree works are evidence of faith? Saying that works are 'required' adds a dimension that seems to contradict salvation as a 'gift' since requiring works implies we earn salvation.

As a baptist you must have been familiar with the notion of being 'born again.' Is there an EO equivalent to that? If so, how is that accomplished?

Tasted is a reference to the Eucharist, something only Christians can receive and truly taste.
This seems to imply EO are the only Christians, since the EO only recognize their own Eucharist as the valid sacrament , and the EO practice closed communion.
 
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☦Marius☦

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How is this different from believing that true faith produces works, and works are an authentic sign of faith? Would you agree works are evidence of faith? Saying that works are 'required' adds a dimension that seems to contradict salvation as a 'gift' since requiring works implies we earn salvation.

As a baptist you must have been familiar with the notion of being 'born again.' Is there an EO equivalent to that? If so, how is that accomplished?

This seems to imply EO are the only Christians, since the EO only recognize their own Eucharist as the valid sacrament , and the EO practice closed communion.

It isn't different. They are inseparable. Faith can die, easy as that.

Of course the EO has a concept of being born again, most of Protestantism is just a reworking of already existing concepts central to Christianity. We believe anything that is Biblical. Being born again is in faith, being Baptized, Chrismated, and walking Christ like in the Spiritual life having received the Holy Spirit.

As for the communion question, we see Communion as being the strength of Christians, the foundation of sanctification. But we leave it up to God to judge who is and who is not saved. It is an Orthodox saying,
"we know who has the Holy Spirit, we don't know who doesn't"
 
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zoidar

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So, it appears that He was not directing what He was saying to the disciples, but to the whole group of people who were listening to him, and there were ordinary people and religious leaders among them.

Looking at Matthew 24-25 I think it's hard to know exactly what was said to the apostles alone. Maybe it all was only for the ears of the apostles?

Matthew 24:3
As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately...

The Scripture says that Jesus spoke in parables to the common people because that would be the only way they would understand His teaching. But when He spoke to and taught His disciples He gave the meaning of the parable and gave His teaching clearly to them.

Jesus also uses parables to his disciples. Look at Matthew 13:36-52. I think the difference is that Jesus didn't describe the parables to the crowd as he did to the apostles.

In both of these parables Jesus was alluding to the Jewish leaders.

It's hard for me to believe that the Jewish leaders were given any talent at all...
 
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BNR32FAN

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Well I'm confident I am saved but let's compare our salvation plans.

If you were to die tonight how sure are you you'd go to heaven?

Since I have the hope of salvation and I have abided in Christ I’m positive I would go to heaven.
 
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Daniel C

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Are you saying one can know truth without God? Tasted is a reference to the Eucharist, something only Christians can receive and truly taste.

Its not works based salvation, that is what you are misunderstanding. Scripture teaches that both Faith AND works are required for salvation, because one cannot exist without the other. True Faith cannot exist without bearing good fruit, and also does not grow without good fruit, and works are useless without faith to sanctify them.

Salvation is like a flower that grows on the vine of Faith. Works are the water that nourishes that faith. Water by itself is of little value without something to nurture. A plant cannot live without water, and a flower cannot exist without a plant. It is that simple but anti Catholic paranoia has killed this teaching among modern protestant/evangelicals.

I'll pass. There are more heresies within the Baptist theology then I could bare to be part of. There is a reason I left that Church in seminary. Not in the least that Baptists have to ignore certain parts of scripture or twist them to fit Billy Graham's vision for Christianity. I came to Orthodoxy because I saw Orthodox who actually bore spiritual fruit, fruit to a level I had never seen among Baptists.


Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,

It is up to God to judge whether I will be saved or not. I am a poor servant, I really don't deserve unity with God. It is up to God to decide whether I have had enough faith in this modern age with my mental illness.

Well Hebrews doesn't talk about a Eucharist,so that is your churches interpretation. And Gods sovereignty should be respected and acknowledge but where does he say he will terrorize his own people with fear?

If your salvation is not faith alone or faith only than you are supplementing the salvation of faith with self righteous work/labour. I have never seen a compelling case that a person can be saved by the works of the flesh.

Salvation is a free Gift for those who believe in God. No one has ever been justified to God by their own merit,only faith. Canes work was rejected because it was his own work,not faith. The people of the OT were only forsaken by God for following false Gods,so faith justified them.

How is a christian Saved?
(Acts)
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.

29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

So I see the faith in Christ,I see nothing else.
 
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☦Marius☦

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Well Hebrews doesn't talk about a Eucharist,so that is your churches interpretation. And Gods sovereignty should be respected and acknowledge but where does he say he will terrorize his own people with fear?

If your salvation is not faith alone or faith only than you are supplementing the salvation of faith with self righteous work/labour. I have never seen a compelling case that a person can be saved by the works of the flesh.

Salvation is a free Gift for those who believe in God. No one has ever been justified to God by their own merit,only faith. Canes work was rejected because it was his own work,not faith. The people of the OT were only forsaken by God for following false Gods,so faith justified them.

How is a christian Saved?
(Acts)
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.

29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

So I see the faith in Christ,I see nothing else.
A very common misconception of English readers is that the word "believe" in scripture means a one time belief. But what happens when belief fails? When fruit is not produced and faith dies? You say it cannot happen, I say "believe" is an active every day command, as well as confessing Christ as Lord. Why do I say this? Because at times in my life I have openly rejected God after a time of true faith. Now you can try to twist it and say I was never saved to begin with, but as far as evangelical teaching goes I was there. I believe that if I had died at that time I would not have been saved. I was cut off from the Holy Spirit, and had no faith. Maybe you have never experienced this, but to every person who has - we know it is possible to lose your salvation.

Why would God force me into something I no longer want or am too worldly to pursue?
 
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Daniel C

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A very common misconception of English readers is that the word "believe" in scripture means a one time belief. But what happens when belief fails? When fruit is not produced and faith dies? You say it cannot happen, I say "believe" is an active every day command, as well as confessing Christ as Lord. Why do I say this? Because at times in my life I have openly rejected God after a time of true faith. Now you can try to twist it and say I was never saved to begin with, but as far as evangelical teaching goes I was there. I believe that if I had died at that time I would not have been saved. I was cut off from the Holy Spirit, and had no faith. Maybe you have never experienced this, but to every person who has - we know it is possible to lose your salvation.

Why would God force me into something I no longer want or am too worldly to pursue?

I think you are the one who is in error. Salvation is described as an eternal gift. What does eternal mean?

Faith does not fail for the saved. I keep posting scripture proving how salvation is a gift and a gift can't be taken back,earnt or loaned but you guys just ignore it:

(Roman)
''For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.''

If God tells me he will give me everlasting salvation for my faith and I do believe,then he takes back the gift and promise that would make God a liar,correct?

I think people are so scared because they aren't saved. I wish they were though that's why i'm trying to help.
 
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☦Marius☦

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I think you are the one who is in error. Salvation is described as an eternal gift. What does eternal mean?

Faith does not fail for the saved. I keep posting scripture proving how salvation is a gift and a gift can't be taken back,earnt or loaned but you guys just ignore it:

(Roman)
''For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.''

If God tells me he will give me everlasting salvation for my faith and I do believe,then he takes back the gift and promise that would make God a liar,correct?

I think people are so scared because they aren't saved. I wish they were though that's why i'm trying to help.

All those scripture I posted don't even partially make you think otherwise? What about free will?
 
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Daniel C

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All those scripture I posted don't even partially make you think otherwise? What about free will?


No because I heard all the points in the past and now I reject them.

The ''work'' God wants us to do is soul winning,alms and other self sacrificing acts. The works we do don't determine our salvation,we work to gain heavenly rewards.

Why would God want his sincere believing people to be kept in a constant state of doubt your whole life?which is what happens when you believe you need to save yourself to God through works. Also, you can't save anybody unless you are saved yourself and we are called by Jesus to preach and save people. A lot of churches just recruit into their denominations and don't save people,they are the main source of works salvation,not the Bible.

We use our free will to believe to begin with and then the spirit of God indwells us. After that point based on scripture I don't think a person can lose their salvation. At minimum Gods will is stronger and would not let his sheep go astray.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Also,what do you think you need to do to get to heaven?

Accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, love God, love others, refrain from sin, adhere to the guidance of the Holy Spirit in cooperation with Him, abide in Christ, and remain in my faith. Sure we will all fail at this from time to time but w must make an honest effort to repent and cooperate with God.
 
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Daniel C

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Accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, love God, love others, refrain from sin, adhere to the guidance of the Holy Spirit in cooperation with Him, abide in Christ, and remain in my faith. Sure we will all fail at this from time to time but w must make an honest effort to repent and cooperate with God.


Well the Bible says something very different on how to be saved. In the words of Jesus:

''For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.''

I don't see Jesus mentioning the stuff you listed.
 
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☦Marius☦

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No because I heard all the points in the past and now I reject them.

The ''work'' God wants us to do is soul winning,alms and other self sacrificing acts. The works we do don't determine our salvation,we work to gain heavenly rewards.

Why would God want his sincere believing people to be kept in a constant state of doubt your whole life?which is what happens when you believe you need to save yourself to God through works. Also, you can't save anybody unless you are saved yourself and we are called by Jesus to preach and save people. A lot of churches just recruit into their denominations and don't save people,they are the main source of works salvation,not the Bible.

We use our free will to believe to begin with and then the spirit of God indwells us. After that point based on scripture I don't think a person can lose their salvation. At minimum Gods will is stronger and would not let his sheep go astray.

Why would God want us to worry? Where in the Bible do you see a God that doesn't inspire fear in the hearts of sinners. Christ didn't say "have faith and don't worry", he said "go and be perfect". We are trying to prepare for the kingdom, to restore the fallen image of man. Faith is communion, communion restores holiness. Lack of holiness and Communion with God are not compatible. One must be at least striving to repent.
 
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Why would God want us to worry? Where in the Bible do you see a God that doesn't inspire fear in the hearts of sinners. Christ didn't say "have faith and don't worry", he said "go and be perfect". We are trying to prepare for the kingdom, to restore the fallen image of man. Faith is communion, communion restores holiness. Lack of holiness and Communion with God are not compatible. One must be at least striving to repent.


What is your understanding about repenting,from a Biblical perspective?
 
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