And God being omniscient and omnipresent knew that He had created man as being incapable of living without sin and chose for those whom He did not elect to perish in the lake of fire. Hence He predestined them to the lake of fire knowing there was no way for them to be saved since they are incapable of accepting Christ unless He enables them. So again according to Calvinism God is ultimately responsible for everyone who will not repent and will burn in the lake of fire.
God did not interfere with Adam's free will when he ate that fruit.
God allows the condemned to fill up their condemnation, until He takes them out of the way. This is why He said to Pharaoh: "For this purpose have I raised you up...."
I can clearly see that you have a problem with the doctrine of election because you want to be in control. It doesn't work that way though. God is still the 800 pound gorilla in the room that does what He wants.
The evidence of your rebellion is that you cling tenaciously to needing to blame God for men condemning themselves on account of their disobedience. None want God. None will come to God; (Romans 3) so God did something to correct the fact that if He didn't; the whole act of creating would be pointless. It would have all been lost if He hadn't come up with this plan to redeem a people for Himself. If God could not redeem the universe He created; He would have not made a universe period.
You know there is no redemption plan for angels right? Does it anger you also that Satan doesn't get a second chance?
You said it yourself that no one can trust in Christ unless they are elected by God. This completely contradicts
Romans 11:17-23.
Now we've already covered Romans 11 on this thread.
Let me ask you, who does the grafting into the olive tree?
Let me ask you this? What is the olive tree?
How is a person grafted into the olive tree if they are not elected by God?
What is the olive tree?
According to you they cannot be grafted into the olive tree if they are not elected because they cannot believe in Christ unless they are elected by God.
What does the olive tree represent?
And please don’t try to dodge this by referring to a superficial belief this time.
What does the olive tree represent?
Both Paul in
Romans 11 and I are referring to true belief in Christ that brings salvation not a mere acknowledgment of Jesus’ existence. Not only does Paul say that these branches are grafted in by God but he also says they are broken off by God.
What is the olive tree? Once you answer that question; these passages can be reconciled to the doctrine of election. But you apparently don't know what the olive tree represents.
So now, according to you, God grafts in branches that do not truly believe.
I give you a hint!
Are only the elect sitting in "church"; (Or Old Testament congregation of Israel)?
The olive tree is the corporate manifestation of the proclamation of what God has revealed in the written word on earth. "Israel" and "the church" are actually the same group of people. There are elect of Israel and there are non-elect of Israel. There are elect of the church and there are non-elect of the church. The non-elect of either group are unbelievers. They may say they believe; but they do not want God on God's terms. They want God on their terms.
What, did they fool God for a moment?
Matthew 7:21 these people tried to fool Jesus and what was His reply? I NEVER KNEW YOU.
Perfect example of someone in the church who really wasn't redeemed. Note: they thought they were. They even proclaim to Jesus: "Look at what we did in Your name!" And His response is that they are workers of iniquity!
That is the scariest verse in the Bible because those who believe they are redeemed and aren't are obviously self deceived. Yet than again God declares:
2 Thessalonians 2:
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
God did that!
Jesus even warned the 7 churches in Revolution 2-3 that if they did not repent and come back to their first love He would spit them out of His mouth. How is that election?
The proof of their being elect or not being elect is whether or not they obey.
How is their salvation dependent upon their actions if they cannot believe unless they are elected and they cannot fail to believe if they are not elected? According to you THEY HAVE NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER. IT IS ONLY GOD’S CHOICE.
It's God's choice because humanity will only make the wrong choice.
If you believe one's salvation is dependent on their actions, you have a works gospel. The manifestation of obedience is a outcropping of God's Spirit working sanctification out in them; not a pre-requisite to obtaining
(OR MAINTAiNING) salvation.
So
John 3:16 should’ve actually said For God so loved some people in the world that He sent His only begotten Son and whosoever God chooses to believe in Him shall never perish but have eternal life.
"For God so loved the world..." Do you know what that Greek word "world" is? It's the word "cosmos". For God so loved the cosmos.... (For God so loved the universe....) "that whosoever believes...." The love for the cosmos is demonstrated in regards to humanity by the whosoever believes. The whosoever that believe are the elect.
Now part of the atonement entailed releasing the created world from the curse that human disobedience brought upon it. This is why "God so loved the cosmos". We aren't the only life in this universe our sin has effected.
"A decree went out from Augustus Caesar that all the world be taxed." Do you know what that Greek word "world" is? That word means inhabitance. All the inhabitance of a particular area were to be taxed.
Now the writers of the New Testament via inspiration of the Holy Spirit could have used this word "inhabitance" in John 3:16 if God wished to convey "universal atonement". He didn't do that though.
“Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.”
Yep, there are elect from every kindred tribe tongue and nation. God is not a respecter of persons. He does not see the Jews any more favorably than He sees any other nation. There is no land / and or any other promise God still owes to Jews. If a Jew is to come into the Kingdom; he will come via the preaching of the gospel and that it! Modern Israel is not fulfillment of prophecy; but that is a subject for another thread.
That is why Peter said that; which was in response to the revelation upon Peter that there is no more distinction between Jew and gentile. God has made of the two one man by the atonement Christ secured.
The word welcome means accepted or approved, not chosen or appointed.
The are accepted and approved, because they were atoned for. And they were chosen to be atoned for from the foundations of the world.
I know you don't like that; but that's what the Scriptures say.
“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right (power, authority) to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,”
John 1:12 NASB
"Which were born,
not of blood, (genetic descendent of Israel)
nor of the will of the flesh, (what they could muster up of their own ability to believe)
nor of the will of man, (a decree by a human authority - i.e. example; "water baptism saves you") but of God.
We have been given the right, the power, the authority to become children of God. We have not been appointed and predestined to be children of God.
Argue with Ephesians 1 over that:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as
He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
The appointment and predestination only refers to those who are written in the book of life. Anyone can be written in if they choose to believe and abide in Christ. The book of life was written according to His foreknowledge of who would repent and abide in Christ.
Except the book of life was written from the foundation of the world. No where in the Scripture does it ever say anything about someone's name being added to the book of life.
Revelation 17:8
....and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in
the book of life from the foundation of the world,
There is one reference to "blot name out of" the book of life. The word "blot" means to "smear". "Out" there means "come from the source of". The book of life speaks of not just spiritual life but physical life. So, is one "smeared from" physical life because of their inability to contend with persecution or such type thing? Don't know? Did this type of person commit suicide? Don't know?
Scripture says there is more than one book. (Revelation 20:12) Is there more than one type of "book of life"? I don't know that either.
Calvin’s idea of election is a disgraceful outlook on God’s character.
Only in your opinion. I think God's plan was pure genius!
We are told to love our enemies and to pray for them. Is God a hypocrite? Does He require us to be more Holy and compassionate than He is that He would not give everyone an equal chance for salvation? That He would love some and not others?
Scripture is very clear. There are people God hates.
It's clear you count me as an enemy; are you praying about that?
“"You have heard that it was said, ' YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
Is this a request that I pray for you?
