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com7fy8

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If I married a lady who trusts that God wants her to be submissive to me, one of the first things I might tell her to do is not be my puppet :)

I remember that movie in which a guy gets a woman from I think an Arab cultural place, and he knows she has been taught to do whatsoever he says he desires. He says, something like, I want you to disagree with me and challenge me. And she says, no I will not!!
 
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bèlla

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I am not superman and I cannot do it all or stay awake for four days straight. Something would have to give and it would probably be me mentally.

I think its necessary for us to recognize our limitations and work with them. Six-hours of sleep is a good night. I usually get five and seven only happens when I'm sick. My body doesn't need a lot of rest and I'm a high energy person. I'm up by 4:00 AM or earlier on many occasions.

I like pressure and do amazing things when I'm in a zone. But that's my default. No one's holding a gun to my head and saying go. To chide someone to do more if they lack the aptitude or willingness to do so is pointless. That comes from within. You can't motivate anyone to do anything he wasn't contemplating on his own. The seed is born on the inside. And at some point he must water it himself.
 
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bèlla

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If I married a lady who trusts that God wants her to be submissive to me, one of the first things I might tell her to do is not be my puppet :)

What would you do if her constitution is geared to agreement and trust? What if her trust in God compelled her to follow you and abide by your decisions? Would you try to change her into something she's not? :)
 
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bèlla

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My pleasure! Your posts certainly enrich my experience on this forum.

Now I'm blushing! ;-)

Ah! So this just clarified your position for me cleared up some of my confusion with your intentions vis a vis the clear intellect and dignity of your will shown in your other posts.

I'm glad to hear that. This has been coming on for a while. I've noticed an absence of certain traits in the Christian men I encountered. In church and on the Internet. I couldn't make sense of it and assumed my lack of familiarity was the issue. But it wasn't.

That was clarified on a thread earlier in the week. Once I responded to yours the answer presented itself. His message resonated because it confirmed what I felt. I learn little from books like his. I read them to gauge the Christian perspective. But the nucleus of what they're suggesting are ideals and behaviors I already embody.

Then the alarm went off and I couldn't reply to you. Because I saw the problem. I needed time to process my thoughts. The dichotomy was clear.

If that is the norm and the way we're supposed to behave. Why was I struggling to find men who embodied those principles? Or kindred souls like myself? And I said it on your thread. I felt like a stranger in a strange land.

But I realized I was operating from a perspective that wasn't commonplace in spite of the books saying otherwise. When I reflected on my previous acquaintances the same was true. There were a few like myself but we were the exception; not the rule.

There are those like yourself who can walk this out. And others who struggle to do so in light of the good fruit. They have other things within them that make it difficult. Their pace is slower and may include lessons we don't experience. But they're meant to help them grow in faith and trust. As are ours.

So, you are personally convicted to follow the "submission" model, but your expectations of of "submission" are vastly different than the "submission" experienced, and even demanded, by many of the submission crowd in this debate.

This is true. I yield from a place of strength. But I can't follow a man who leads from a position of pride and insecurity. He will mishandle me in deference to his fear and ego.

As you have been a witness, discussions of submission often turn very ugly on this board, with a cavalcade of men chiming in to demand the woman's obeisance as their Biblical entitlement, along with 51% (effectively 100%) of a say in all of the decisions in the home. I always REALLY appreciate all the men who join in to combat their unBiblical stampede.

That's probably why this thread didn't make the front page. ;-)

Often when abused women subjugated under that false doctrine hear "submission", they are hearing coerced, enforced submission that a husband is now entitled to not only receive, but enforce!

They are operating from a proud and angry spirit. That is not conducive to the loving guidance the Lord speaks of. Self-control is a must for leaders. I avoid men who can't control themselves. It never ends well.

Your rendering of the concept is in line with Paul's writings. It is a gift you give to your husband, as unto the Lord, but you will see that in a beautiful relationship with a believer that offers the fruits of the Spirit, your husband will not want to gain at your expense and will esteem others better than self, so the outcome is that you are both submitting to each other in function (Eph 5:21). This is not to say that you don't acquiesce to areas of his strength (and as well, he to yours), but you do so because you choose to trust his leadership in that area. Or even choose to trust his leadership in many areas.

If you were standing before me I'd give you a big hug. This is the Lord's doing and our conversation was meant to be. He always throws in tell-tale words to let me know its Him. Like acquiesce. That's one I've used a lot in the past. ;-)

This is a wonderful testament of His willingness to show us He sees and hears our hearts. I understand everything you said and agree. I don't believe He'd put this on your heart without a reason.

We believe that behaviors are easier to change than feelings, so we honor each other's feelings with changes in our behaviors. This enables our romantic love to continue growing and deepening.

They are. Feelings require a lot of work on the inside. But with time and constancy they'll shift.

Wrt the L&R book, Eggerich's paradigm will not develop and grow romantic love in a marriage. That's another topic but the marital mechanics he describes are so vastly different than those we follow in our marriage. If we followed his mechanics we would certainly not be in honeymoonish, romantic swooning love with each other. I don't know of any L&R marriages that are. That would be a longer post, but there are many reasons why that is so.

Maybe that's a thread you could start. I've read his books and many others. I'd be happy to contribute and hear your perspective on its merits and challenges.

We all have our different callings. Suffering 25 years of abuse due to twisted perceptions of doctrines injured my spirit. Now that I'm strong again, I feel a irresistible calling to minister to other believers who are entombed in a covenant of death under the same doctrines.

This is an offering. My calling is fashion design. But given my makeup and experiences I felt it was a service to God and a way to encourage others and minister to them through my relationship. That is my goal.

I have written my thoughts with respect to my understanding of the first half of 1 Cor 11. My study in that area involved searching out whether women are to wear hats to church, as my denomination at the time required women to do.

I wore a head covering for a time. The Lord had me do it. Some people were uncomfortable. Most didn't care. One woman came to me and said I should take it off. But another told me to stand firm with the Lord's instruction.

I was waiting for a shipment with a few items they forgot to send in my order. It included a couple of scarves. They resent the whole thing. When I told them they made a mistake they said don't worry. Keep it all. I gave the extras away. I didn't understand what He was doing then but I grasp it now.

Thanks! I've been blessed by your posts as well. I always enjoy your participation in discussions.

Likewise. Thank you again! :)
 
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Endeavourer

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Something within me longs for Him and His presence had a profound impact. I don’t think I grasp its fullness yet. But I know my heart cedes to His. I don’t want to wrestle or to disobey. Obedience gives me peace.

Obedience to the Lord does give one peace. Unconditional obedience, even. Amen!!

Yet, on the topic of this post, a human will never live up to the unfailing mercy and love of the Lord, so granting such unconditional obedience to your husband will eventually yield a different effect.

When you consider that in light of 1 Corinthians 11:3, 1 Peter 3:1-2, Ephesians 5:22, and Proverbs 12:4, 18:22, and 31:10-12.

I don’t see a yoke.

LaBella, ideally it would not be a yoke. But humans fall short. They are not made to accept or receive worship. Unconditional love and obedience towards another is not far from a state of worship. What happens to any of us mere mortals who start accepting worship is a great study... the evolution of their character or their end is never good.

I delight in the manifestation of the principle He put forth in the Lord’s prayer:

Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Not mine. Not his. But God’s working through the union and sanctifying each for His glory.

Yes, delight in our spouse and in our union and in our Lord is wonderful and healthy. Marriage is a type of Christ's relationship with his bride; my husband often remarks on some aspect about our relationship that reminds him of one more way that our relationship typifies the relationship between Christ and the church.

The emotional and spiritual intimacy my husband and I share are in a similar vein to each of our personal relationships with Christ. We are one with each other, and we are one with Christ. Synergisticly, wonderfully so.

And because I love Him dearly. I can’t help but feel the same for my companion. The divinity in me testifies to his. Serving Him as unto the Lord is a source of joy and peace.

Yes, ideally very much so!! My husband and I delight in serving each other and what we receive in our marriage is a source of joy and peace. However, if one of you brings the fruits of darkness into the union then this ideal becomes painful and to the extent you still try to serve it, it even becomes destructive to yourself. This only works between two who become one in the fruits of the Spirit. Fruits of darkness will never yield joy and peace.

But when I answered your question something troubled me. It wasn’t the book in itself. I enjoyed it. What bothered me was why I did. His message resonates because its easy for me. I believed that anyway.

And the more I pondered it the more I felt that was telling. I have been in the company of many women. Christian and otherwise. I know that disposition isn’t common.

I began to wonder if both were laboring under expectations that were unfair and were truthfully a hardship. I questioned if we were meant to learn these things along the way. I feared they’d taken rare attributes and made them a standard. And that saddened me.

So the L&R book, in my estimation, foments fruits of darkness on the part of the husband as if they are instead Godly. It encourages the husband's entitlement of her esteem rather than teaching him to "esteem other better than self". It teaches him to enforce her submission by calling her out with "I didn't feel respected when you ___ just now." And it burdens the woman into unconditional duty submission.

Further, it robs the woman of her sexual being and her sexual agency. It portrays sex as "HIS" release and her sacrifice of just a few minutes. This is NOT God's view of sex or why He created it!! L&R gives little (if any) space to discuss a woman's sexuality and not once mentions her sexual pleasure or her sexual needs. I'd hate to read his rewrite of Song of Solomon.

Further, it encourages women to "minister" to their husband sexually even if they don't feel like it as a way to respect him and as their duty. This is terrible advice and will create a sexual aversion. I personally know a couple who has enacted this advice for over a decade and the woman is struggling to grit her teeth long enough to endure their scheduled nights but she feels she has to because the punishment of not doing so (her husband's angry entitlement) is greater than the debasement of doing so.

This thread is the result of those thoughts. I hope through the comments we’ll recognize our diversity and see the danger of trying to fit others into boxes God did not intend.

Only the Holy Spirit can reshape us. He uses others and situations to bring it about. I choose to work in harmony with my partner for its unfolding. But I’m uniquely fashioned to do so without complaint.

The absence of the same isn’t a cause of shame or disgust. There are many things which bring us to our current state. Only the Lord knows how to utilize them for our betterment and theirs. I trust Him implicitly. But my perspective isn’t the only one. :)

Great stuff, Bella!! Thank you so much for the discussion.
 
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bèlla

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Obedience to the Lord does give one peace. Unconditional obedience, even. Amen!!

It does. He is deepening my faith and trust.

Yet, on the topic of this post, a human will never live up to the unfailing mercy and love of the Lord, so granting such unconditional obedience to your husband will eventually yield a different effect.

That is a heavier topic which addresses sufferance, mystical union, and the greater thing He’s moving me towards. This is a matter of love and will. They’re at the heart of all I do.

I don’t require perfection in my partner and the fruits may be lacking on occasion and underdeveloped in some areas and less so in most.

Nevertheless, he is a conduit and the sandpaper I require to smooth the rough places. He provides the challenges I need which stretch and make me malleable in places where I’m rigid and fixed.

I don’t expect him to be infallible like God. Where is the challenge of loving someone perfect who always wants our best? Flesh brings obstacles and difficulties that test and refine my person.

LaBella, ideally it would not be a yoke. But humans fall short. They are not made to accept or receive worship. Unconditional love and obedience towards another is not far from a state of worship. What happens to any of us mere mortals who start accepting worship is a great study... the evolution of their character or their end is never good.

It is impossible for me to be perfectly obedient. I will fail and err many times. His grace and patience will help me improve and make better decisions in the future. I have no interest in control, games, or manipulation. I can accept correction.

I don’t worship my companion. But I do express my regard and gratitude for his presence in many ways and always in prayer. I have learned the importance of thank you and the gravity of little moments I recall that acknowledge his presence and contribution.

Appreciation goes a long way in keeping the peace and demonstrating in the simplest ways: I see you. You’ve made a difference. I thank God for you.

I take those moments and create a digital spread or place them in a physical scrapbook. The digital spreads are compiled in a book as well. When challenges arise or we find ourselves in a valley where there’s no way out we’ll remember happier times. And because I’ve captured them we can relive those moments together and draw strength from them.

I am an asset to him in every sense of the word. Not in theory or merely because I believe. I have intentionally worked towards my betterment as a woman and future spouse. I never stop. When he asks how I've spent my life up until his arrival. I want to have something to show that makes him proud.

Yes, delight in our spouse and in our union and in our Lord is wonderful and healthy. Marriage is a type of Christ's relationship with his bride; my husband often remarks on some aspect about our relationship that reminds him of one more way that our relationship typifies the relationship between Christ and the church.

Ideally, you bring one another closer to God. But that is not contingent on perfection. Or fruit. It is an outgrowth of my faith and trust.

I experienced much growth while laboring for an atheist. My submission to God enabled me to love and care for him in ways that exceeded my capacity. The minor afflictions have strengthened my mettle. I am bettered because of them.

The emotional and spiritual intimacy my husband and I share are in a similar vein to each of our personal relationships with Christ. We are one with each other, and we are one with Christ. Synergisticly, wonderfully so.

That is a wonderful image. I would like to meet someone who seeks the same. One who grasps my surrender in its proper context. I asked to remain single but He said no. I accept His will and trust its for the best.

However, if one of you brings the fruits of darkness into the union then this ideal becomes painful and to the extent you still try to serve it, it even becomes destructive to yourself. This only works between two who become one in the fruits of the Spirit. Fruits of darkness will never yield joy and peace.

I expect there will be places of growth in us each. But I’ve endured much for His sake and He’s kept me. I don’t fix my thoughts on impossibilities. I look at Him and consider what He desires to bring from the union.

Thank you for including your thoughts on the book.

So the L&R book, in my estimation, foments fruits of darkness on the part of theIt encourages the husband's entitlement of her esteem rather than teaching him to "esteem other better than self".

Respect and admiration are benevolent gifts I bestow. Both require me to move outside myself and see him through different lenses. Contemplating God’s perspective and his positive attributes makes a difference. It is hard to admire someone if you’re constantly turning their failings in your head and giving voice to them.

It teaches him to enforce her submission by calling her out with "I didn't feel respected when you ___ just now." And it burdens the woman into unconditional duty submission.

Oftentimes we don’t realize we’ve offended someone. If my behavior is having a negative effect I want to know. We can’t accurately gauge the impact our words and deeds will have without feedback.

Further, it robs the woman of her sexual being and her sexual agency. It portrays sex as "HIS" release and her sacrifice of just a few minutes.

I think physical intimacy involves give and take. I derive pleasure from knowing his needs are met and there are moments when serving him is my focus. His desire, need, and release satisfy something in me. Knowing he is sated from my efforts is equally pleasing.

This is NOT God's view of sex or why He created it!! L&R gives little (if any) space to discuss a woman's sexuality and not once mentions her sexual pleasure or her sexual needs. I'd hate to read his rewrite of Song of Solomon.

Sometimes that goes unmet. Sometimes the denial is the point. Sometimes its meant to bring me to another state. Sometimes the angst pleases both.

Further, it encourages women to "minister" to their husband sexually even if they don't feel like it as a way to respect him and as their duty.

I see this from a perspective of service. And there’s always a measure of compromise. But its made easier if you are on the same page. I think that’s an important ministry. Much like he ministers to my passion for handbags and the other delights I prefer.

Women perform tasks they don’t enjoy every day. The issue isn’t sex. Its the payoff. Some esteem that higher than their companion. I had workplace demands. But I met them with the right spirit. Should I give my husband less? Not a chance!

This is terrible advice and will create a sexual aversion.

I can see how that may be true for some. But surrendering my body is a must. We’re removing another brick in the wall until our nakedness (figuratively and literally so) has been accomplished. I won’t impede it.

Thank you for sharing! :)
 
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bèlla

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As for how I submit to the Lord, I consider myself "on call". If he calls, I need to do what he needs me to do. And when he's not telling me to do X or talk to Y, I need to be growing.

That’s a great analogy! I love your mindset. We could learn a lot from your example. :)
 
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Dave-W

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Dave, this is a personal question and perhaps off topic, but I'm curious as to why you stay in a congregation (or even a denomination) that scorns your wife.
Personal, yes.
Off topic? We will let the OP decide on that. IMO it is not off topic.

I stayed in that congregation probably way longer than I should have. I had bought into their agenda and viewpoint for the most part. I did not agree with their assessment of my wife and I did my level best to shield her from their judgements. I did not leave until a few things converged to move me out. First the network of congregations started unraveling. Second, my job ended and I needed to move out of the area to find another job in my field. And third, I finally started sensing a pull from God to move back to my home town 150 miles away.

I can be a bit dense at times when such things are concerned.
being scorned by both the leaders and the congregants in the assembly doesn't sound like a situation that ministers to your wife.
Indeed. What I found out AFTER I left was the eldership was divided over me. My home group leader often sat in on elder meetings and he told me that half ov them wanted to promote me to home group leader and deacon; the other half wanted to kick me out of the congregation altogether. But since they needed all to be of the sme opinion, neither happened.

They had a set up such that they could neither condemn or minister to her directly. (men could not talk to women except their own family members)
 
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Dave-W

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My inner Martha Stewart is smiling
That jail bird?
upload_2019-9-6_7-11-23.jpeg
 
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Dave-W

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As far as submission goes, I would say that an important aspect is that it is a voluntarily accepted role.
One of the problems I had with the congregation in college (and after) was their teaching on a lot of topics were absolutely dead on accurate, but they way they applied them got really wacked out.

They taught that all spiritual authority was on the basis of "a voluntarily accepted role." That means it is from the bottom up.

But whether it was from congregational leadership to congregants, husband to wife, or parent to child, it was expected to be IMPOSED from the top down. Part of the reason some wanted me gone is I reminded them of how they taught things one way but did them another way. The leaders that wanted to promote me liked the way I embraced what they taught.
 
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com7fy8

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If I married a lady who trusts that God wants her to be submissive to me, one of the first things I might tell her to do is not be my puppet :)

What would you do if her constitution is geared to agreement and trust? What if her trust in God compelled her to follow you and abide by your decisions? Would you try to change her into something she's not? :)
If God is having her submit to me, I need to pray and make sure God is guiding how I share with her and guide her.

There is delegation, though > if she is capable of doing what God guides her to do, I need to free her to handle things . . . details which I do not have time to know and talk about with her.

And I believe God will use her to give me feedback to help me know what to do and how to guide her. It would not be in every detail, I think, like micro-managing.

I now think of how Peter did not choose the deacons > Acts 7 > but he trusted the people to be able to know who was qualified. So, yes they obeyed him, and he delegated responsibility to them.

So, being the head with another person can be different than being the head of a body :)

I trust >

"submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21)

To me, this means we are mutually submissive. But if God wants me to be her head, then I do have responsibility over her and she is submissive to me, but at the same time I am submissive to her, but as her head. It might be like how the head of a human body is dependent on the body and submissive to the body's needs and feelings and limitations and abilities.

The head and the body need one another, and can not make it without each other.

And though Jesus is our Head, we make requests, and He is submissive to us by giving us His attention and honoring our requests . . . I consider.

Our relating is "in the fear of God". To me, this includes how we are relating with our attention to God in us and how He has us relating and making choices. So, I need to be directing her the way God in her has already decided He wants to direct her, so that my direction is a coincidence and witness to what she is doing with God :)

My direction can be confirmation, then.

So, we both need to be prayerful, so we are in agreement. And for me, I would say, then, I need to trust God to guide me, so how He guides her will match. And so, what if there is disagreement? If she is willing to submit to me, in a disagreement, possibly I am going to get worried about how I could be the one who is wrong . . . since she is being humble :) Or, may be she is wrong and therefore is submitting grudgingly, and this would not be right. So, I need to find out why she is going along with me during disagreement . . . who is really right. So, we might need to not move until we are in agreement.
 
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That jail bird?

Martha is a shrewd business woman. She took every day practices and turned them into a thriving business that ushered in a wave of interest in homemaking and domestic pursuits. Which inspired millions of women.

You can see the scope of her influence on Pinterest and Instagram. I learned a lot from her and doubt my future spouse will complain. ;-)
 
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bèlla

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If God is having her submit to me, I need to pray and make sure God is guiding how I share with her and guide her.

I agree. I think its important we shy away from impressing our preferences on the person’s character outside of God’s prompting or issues that require address. That veers into the Stepford Wife which many resent.

And I believe God will use her to give me feedback to help me know what to do and how to guide her. It would not be in every detail, I think, like micro-managing.

I concur and think this is managed in light of your personalities and outlook. I don’t like micro-management. But some couples want that in their relationship.

I work best with someone who articulates his wishes and leaves their management up to me or one who desires anticipatory service and entrusts its fulfillment to me without input from him.

To me, this means we are mutually submissive. But if God wants me to be her head, then I do have responsibility over her and she is submissive to me, but at the same time I am submissive to her, but as her head.

Precisely. The difference in function don’t diminish either’s submission.

So, I need to be directing her the way God in her has already decided He wants to direct her, so that my direction is a coincidence and witness to what she is doing with God :)

Spot on. That’s why I consider a prospect in light of my purpose. God wouldn’t lead me to someone who’d want me to abandon it. He should be in harmony with the Lord’s direction.

So, I need to find out why she is going along with me during disagreement . . . who is really right. So, we might need to not move until we are in agreement.

I think your emphasis on agreement is ideal. Sometimes we need to seek the answer in prayer a little longer. If neither are certain a delay may be best. It takes a humble leader to admit this. :)
 
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com7fy8

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I concur and think this is managed in light of your personalities and outlook. I don’t like micro-management. But some couples want that in their relationship.
Well, Jesus is our Head; so I can see He wants to guide every detail of what we do, like how a human head is so micromanaging of what its body does. Plus, Jesus is our Groom who desires to be with us and share with us, all the time > "I am with you always", He says in Matthew 28:20. So I can see Jesus wants to be involved in every thing of our practical lives, personally guiding us in every detail > because this has us in constant and personal and sensitive sharing in love with Jesus our Groom. And it is written >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

From this, I get how God our Heavenly Father does please to personally guide all we do, in His peace. Our Creator's peace, by the way, shares His own creativity with us, for how to share in love with one another. So, being submissive to how God's peace rules us is included in "submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21) We discover, as we go and grow, then, what God has us doing with each other.

So, I see how God wants to micromanage . . . partly so we stay with Him and sweetly and sensitively share with and enjoy Him in His quiet and caring love.

And so this could work for a couple > we want to fuss about and micromanage everything with each other . . . so we can be with each other :) We might do dishes with each other, in each other's arms and her in my armpit, while our free hands do the dishes with each other. Because God's love is not like a welfare system, where you accept help only with what you can not do for yourself and you give only what somebody needs. You do things to be together.

But we need to be able to love by faith, not only by sight and touch and talking with each other. We love Jesus > "Though now you do not see Him" (1 Peter 1:8).
 
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bèlla

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From this, I get how God our Heavenly Father does please to personally guide all we do, in His peace.

I once read about someone who spent her morning communing with the Lord and receiving His instruction for the day. I did a modified approach for prayer and tried it on its own. It was an interesting experience.

Because God's love is not like a welfare system, where you accept help only with what you can not do for yourself and you give only what somebody needs. You do things to be together.

I would feel smothered. Oftentimes when I’m tidying I’m conversing with the Lord or mulling on different topics. I need space in our togetherness so that each can give time to inner ministrations and periods of quiet.
 
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com7fy8

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I need space in our togetherness so that each can give time to inner ministrations and periods of quiet.
Paul does say they need time to be in prayer and fasting > 1 Corinthians 7:5.
 
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bèlla

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Paul does say they need time to be in prayer and fasting > 1 Corinthians 7:5.

I am equally extroverted and contemplative. I value quality over quantity in relation to my connections. And we’ll inevitably have individual pursuits or meet friends outside the other’s company. I need that balance.

But there are couples who spend most of their time together. I don’t believe the Lord desires that from me. And He isn’t leading me to go here and there to serve. I’ve done that.

I feel led towards a different kind of intimacy. Small gatherings in my home and charitable or cultural events that don’t have a large Christian presence. He’s sending me where I’m needed most.
 
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com7fy8

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Paul says a couple should at times be free from each other so they can fast and pray > 1 Corinthians 7:5.

I looked up the part about being able to "give themselves" to prayer and fasting. And it means, in the Greek . . . or can mean > to be at leisure, or to take a recess. This can mean to be free from each other, I see, so we can be fully with God and God fully has His way with us. We get away from one another, so we are unhindered by each other; and we understand each of us is to be free until God brings us back to each other.

And our time alone with God will effect how we will be with each other. Be ready to discover how this will be :) Because we are growing in Jesus, not staying the same; so we need not to hold on to anything we have already been hoping for and expecting, possibly, since God will change us and mature us in what we can want and appreciate and what we value the most.

It could be like this, in the case where a couple splits up but they are Christian. Paul says we do not have the option to get a divorce > 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 < they must remain unmarried or be reconciled.

How this can work is they break up, but now they are on time out so they can pray and each can be corrected by God so each one now is being personally guided in God's peace. And, once God has each of them in His way of His love, then is when His peace can bring them back with one another . . . once they each have received correction and God's adjustments and tuning.
 
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