Submission & Headship

[bèlla]

For me, it was the expectation that I was the leader in my marriage, and I couldn't fulfill that role as that is not who I am.

So, I can see what you're saying above.

This was so transparent I struggled between which reply I should address first. I believe some men desire that position and the authority and responsibility that accompanies it.

But I don’t believe that’s true for all. Nor is it consistent with the people I’m encountering as a single. I suspect that is the exceptional approach; not the rule. And its being heralded as a standard for men. This is wrong.

 

[bèlla]

My husband is king of the castle because I said he could be..

Now you know that made me swoon! ~lol

Can you share what it means to live that way?

 

[D.A. Wright]

I think the consideration that the Lord will one day require an accounting of how we have administered this issue according to the light we've been given has escaped many. In modern western society, there prevails a tendency to "wing it" regarding family structure. My wife and I had to hash this thing out many, many years ago and it was no picnic (with the difficulty being most of my own doing). She is a very willful person, and yet she respects the responsibility I have toward God in being the house-band. A very, very patient and gentle hand is required to make a success, in most, if not all cases. God is good and we have long seen practically eye-to-eye on the matter.

 

[nanookadenord]

I appreciate your honesty. Its refreshing. I don’t you’re alone in that on either side. I suspect men aren’t given the grace to say what you have without a negative response.

Thank you!

If I am one thing, it's that I am honest to a fault. You are correct, I have been told by many that I am sinning by not being a leader. That I am sinning by not doing it God's way.

I have even been told that I am not a man. So, yes, negative responses are the norm.

 

[nanookadenord]

This was so transparent I struggled between which reply I should address first. I believe some men desire that position and the authority and responsibility that accompanies it.

But I don’t believe that’s true for all. Nor is it consistent with the people I’m encountering as a single. I suspect that is the exceptional approach; not the rule. And its being heralded as a standard for men. This is wrong.

I wholeheartedly agree with you!

My heart is always on my sleeve! It is one of the reasons my girlfriend fell in love with me. She knows that I am an honest person. She knows she can rely on me to be honest with her at every turn. It is just who I am and to be anything else is foreign to me. Just like trying to be a leader. It is foreign to me and not who God made me to be.

It is why I wouldn't make a good supervisor, even though I have more experience as an EMT than anyone else in the company I work for by many years in most cases and they have continually asked me to be one, I turn them down each time. I have no want or need to be a leader. I am fine as a grunt!

 

[Endeavourer]

What does .... headship mean to you?

If a doctrinal cornerstone word is not in the Bible, then I am very cautious to assume that the doctrine is actually Biblical, and that all of men's constructs around the word are not vain doctrines.

"Headship" is one of those words not in the Bible although volumes have been written about it.

The verse 'headship' is built on is 1 Cor 11:3:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

I'd be very interested to hear why this verse assumes a relationship authority order from a well spoken headship proponent such as yourself, and if it does so, how does this verse describe a woman's relationship to Christ in a way that fits with the rest of Scripture's counsel?

 

[~Zao~]

I wholeheartedly agree with you!

My heart is always on my sleeve! It is one of the reasons my girlfriend fell in love with me. She knows that I am an honest person. She knows she can rely on me to be honest with her at every turn. It is just who I am and to be anything else is foreign to me. Just like trying to be a leader. It is foreign to me and not who God made me to be.

It is why I wouldn't make a good supervisor, even though I have more experience as an EMT than anyone else in the company I work for by many years in most cases and they have continually asked me to be one, I turn them down each time. I have no want or need to be a leader. I am fine as a grunt!

That really goes for people in a very general sense. God knows what He is doing in each case and people can agree to others people’s proding or not. But Christ says leaders are servants so whatcha gonna do?

 

[nanookadenord]

But Christ says leaders are servants so whatcha gonna do?

Is this an actual question?

 

[~Zao~]

Is this an actual question?

Rhetorical. Christ refused to be made king so I think you are following a very good path.

 

[nanookadenord]

Rhetorical. Christ refused to be made king so I think you are following a very good path.

Okay, thank you!

 

[mama2one]

we're a traditional family with him working & me a sahm

we do lots of family time & share helping with homework
we're both on same page with parenting

he's a quiet, patient leader of our family

God prepared us to be parents while we waited yrs to adopt
exactly where God wants us to be raising our daughter

 

[Hazelelponi]

Now you know that made me swoon! ~lol

Can you share what it means to live that way?

lol..

I don't work, although working outside the home isnt an issue for him, I could if I could, but I'm disabled and that's enough on my plate so I don't work.

He makes the final decision on any major decision we can't agree on, and we agreed to that before we got married.

As you know in life we make decisions daily, and some of those decisions are more difficult than others and we won't always agree on everything, so he gets the tie breaking vote as it were, whenever we disagree.

I decided that if it's going to be the wrong decision, I'd rather he carry that weight. I carry enough and he can carry that load. It's what he was made for, and I think far better suited to that than me..

And so we had this conversation before we ever got married and both agreed to it. And he really is better suited to this stress. He listens to me, to my input and to my reasoning, and I listen to his and all he thinks and feels on everything major.. and then we either find a compromise - which we always seek (we've only actually disagreed on something three times since we married, since we normally do come to agreement on most things) - or he gets the final decision.

Other than that, everything daily around the house is on me and he goes to work.. I'm better with money so I deal with all that end. I make sure the bills are paid and all our needs met from our income, and then I give him extra for his pocket to spend or save how he chooses, and I have extra for mine... I make sure the amount is equal.

I do all the household chores, he mows the lawn and takes out trash on trash day.

I do the cooking and baking, and he comes home for his lunch break and eats a home cooked meal daily, except for the one day a week when he takes me out to dinner...

if I'm in too much pain to cook - which does occasionally happen, we have microwaved food.. lol... it's all he can cook.. haha

We are both happy. We meet one another's needs, and enjoy one another's company.

It's a very traditional marriage I suppose, but it would work even if I worked. He would just pick up more around the house I'm sure, and I don't see him having an issue with it if that were the case..

He really just has the patience of Job and rolls however life goes with ease..

 

[bèlla]

I'd be very interested to hear why this verse assumes a relationship authority order from a well spoken headship proponent such as yourself, and if it does so, how does this verse describe a woman's relationship to Christ in a way that fits with the rest of Scripture's counsel?

The purpose of this thread isn't to promote either. I hoped you'd respond and planned to send a note if you didn't asking for your input. It is honestly an outgrowth of something that was on my heart yesterday and part of the reason why I felt it was better I didn't comment on your thread in the manner I intended.

And if you see the messages I've replied to thus far and OP the intention is clear. Love and grace are at the heart of it.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Rhetorical. Christ refused to be made king so I think you are following a very good path.

I think you misunderstand Christ. Christ didn't need to be made a King by anyone or thing, HE simply IS a King.

A true King doesn't need told what they are, they know it and wear the mantle with ease and comfort, even when the mantle is wool and linen.

 

[bèlla]

True submission actually puts more responsibility and emphasis on the one being submitted to that the one doing the submitting.

I agree. Its a great responsibility.

Starts with God's standard.

For the longest time that was my only perspective. I gauged the subject wholly based on my love for the Lord and desire to obey His will.

But that was a factor of my person before I came to Christ. I’m wired with a preference for deference to a man with good character and a capacity to lead. You could posit its an influence of my upbringing. But my siblings and relatives don’t behave as I do. I’m an extreme of the concept. And few would undertake the things I have for my partner just because.

Rest assured, I’m meant to marry. That has been impressed more than once. ;-)

But I suspect this attribute is prevalent in some and less so in others. And the majority will grow in grace and proficiency through their union. They won’t enter with a mindset clearly formed and ready to implement its meaning from the start.

I fear we're treating them like they should and expecting them to behave in ways that are foreign to most and nonexistent in others. Sanctification is a process.

It is really as simple as that. With that criteria Christian wives should be happy to submit. But in reality, just as men have corrupted it, wives are not always supportive of husbands doing the right thing. I have seen it first hand.

Women don't naturally submit to anyone's authority as a rule. Learning to yield to God is a lifelong pursuit. We always have areas of our person we haven't yielded to Him. This is one where I excel and would readily do irrespective of belief.

I've read more books on this subject than I can count. They resonate with me because of my constitution and faith. And I think wiring is being grossly overlooked on this topic. We all have places of strength and weakness.

But to propose that weakness is bad in this instance is errant in my mind.

 

[~Zao~]

I think you misunderstand Christ. Christ didn't need to be made a King by anyone or thing, HE simply IS a King.

A true King doesn't need told what they are, they know it and wear the mantle with ease and comfort, even when the mantle is wool and linen.

Kings were admitted by God because they rejected His rule. Please stay scriptural.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Kings were admitted by God because they rejected His rule. Please stay scriptural.

huh?

Are you saying the Christ isn't a King?

 

[~Zao~]

huh?

Are you saying the Christ isn't a King?

Christ is the final outcome of His allowance to mankind’s disobedience.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Christ is the final outcome of His allowance to mankind’s disobedience.

What religion are you?

 

[~Zao~]

What religion are you?

Christian ... what are you Baal?