JOSEPHUS, OLIVET DISCOURSE AND BOOK OF REVELATION

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think because John was very familiar with Herod's temple, he would have probably known the dimension of it since it was a center of pride for the Jewish people. So imo it would not have made sense for John to be given a reed and told to measure the temple. I think that is an indicator that it was not Herod's temple.

It is not the Temple but the Sanctuary of the Temple containing the Holy and Most Holy Place.
Those worshiping in it must be Priests. Haven't really looked hard at that.'
But Temple is never once mentioned in Revelation

The court outside of the Holy Place would have had the Altar of Sacrifice/Burnt Offerings and was tended to by the Priests for the people's offerings.
I have a rather unique view that the "Sacrifice" mentioned in Ezekiel could be a reference to that Altar. Just throwing that out there.

The Court in Revelation 11:2

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>[water lavar/Altar of Sacrifice], without of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side<1854>, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the nations and the holy City they shall be treading/pathsousin <3961> (5692) forty two months
=========================
Zephaniah 1:7 Be silent in the presence of my Lord Yahweh; For the day of Yahweh is at hand, For Yahweh has prepared a sacrifice; He has invited His guests.
8 “And it shall be in the day of Yahweh's sacrifice, I will punish the princes and the king’s children, And all such as are clothed with foreign apparel.

Ezekiel 39:17 " And thou son of adam, thus He says my Lord Yahweh, say thou! to bird of every wing, and to all of beast of the field: 'be assembled ye! and come ye! togethe ye from round about on Sacrifice of Me which I Sacrificing for ye, a great Sacrifice on Mountains of Israel, and ye eat flesh and ye drink blood. 18 Flesh of mighty-ones ye shall eat, and blood of princes of the Land ye shall drink.....

Hosea 8:13 For the sacrifices of My offerings they sacrifice flesh and eat it, But the LORD does not accept them.
Now He will remember their iniquity and punish their sins.They shall return to Egypt.
=======================
They were sent to Egypt in 70ad

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Concerning the Temple, our LORD had foretold, particularly, that, notwithstanding their wonderful dimensions, there should "not be left one stone upon another that should not be thrown down ;" and, accordingly, it is recorded, in the Talmud, and by Maimonides, that Terentius Rufus, captain of the army of Titus, absolutely ploughed up the foundations of the Temple with a ploughshare. Now, also, was literally fulfilled that prophecy of Micah- "Therefore shall Zion, for your sakes (i. e. for your wickedness,) be ploughed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the LORD's house as the high places of the forest." (Micah iii. 12)///

There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection. Titus now gave orders that those Jews only who resisted should be slain ; but the soldiers, equally void of pity and remorse, slew even the sick and the aged. The robbers and seditious were all punished with death : the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome. After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves, or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ; whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale.

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

the temple of God] The word used is not that for the whole “Temple-precinct,” but the “Temple” in the narrowest sense—what in the O. T. is called “the house” or “the palace.”

the altar] Being distinguished from the Temple, we should naturally think of the Altar of Burnt-offering which stood outside it: besides that this was, and the Altar of Incense was not, large enough to be measured by something longer than a foot-rule. But we saw on Revelation 6:9 that the Heavenly Temple apparently has no Altar of Burnt-offering distinct from the Altar of Incense: so the question only becomes important if we suppose the earthly Temple to be meant.

Is it then the heavenly or the earthly Temple that St John is bidden to measure? Probably the latter. Without pressing the argument from Revelation 10:9, that the seer is now on earth, it is hardly likely that, whereas in Ezekiel, Zechariah, and inf. Revelation 21:15 the measurement, not of the Temple only but of the Holy City, is the work of angels, it should here be ascribed to a man. But what is more decisive is, that the whole of this chapter describes God’s rebukes and correcting judgements on the city, the fate of which is connected with that of the Temple here named. This proves that it is the earthly city of God that is meant—and therefore probably the literal Jerusalem: for the Christian Church, imperfectly as it realises its divine ideal, does not appear to be dissociated from it in Scriptural typology or prophecy: “Jerusalem which is above … is the Mother of us all,” even now, and even now “our citizenship is in Heaven.”

and them that worship therein] Lit. in it, not “in them,” i.e. in the Temple, the mention of “the Altar” being parenthetical. But neither the Temple (in the narrower sense) nor the Altar was ordinarily a place of spiritual “worship,” but only of the ritual “service of God.” Therefore the meaning of the Temple and Altar must be to some extent spiritualised: even if the prophecy be concerned with God’s judgements on Jerusalem and the Jewish people, we are not to understand that the actual Temple was to be spared (for we know it was not): but, most probably, that the true Israelites would not be cut off from communion with God, even when their city and the earthly splendours of their Temple were destroyed. Ezekiel 11:16 will thus illustrate the sense of the passage, though there does not appear to be a conscious reference to it.

===========================

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 1. - And there was given me a reed like unto a rod. We are not told by whom the reed is given, but in Revelation 21. the angel has the reed, and so also in Ezekiel 40, upon which the incident seems founded (see Ezekiel 40; and cf. the reference to the outer court in ver. 17). The reed is "like a rod;" that is, like to a staff. It is for a measuring line, as in Zechariah 2:1. And the angel stood, saying. Omit all except "saying," as in the Revised Version. Λέγων is used absolutely, not as qualifying κάλαμος, "reed," as Andreas (cf. Revelation 4:1; Revelation 14:7; Revelation 19:6). Rise, and measure the temple of God; rather, rouse and measure, etc. The imperative verb does not imply anything as to the previous position of St. John.

"The temple" is ναός, the shrine or dwelling place of God (as in ver. 19; also Revelation 3:12; Revelation 7:15), the inner temple, as distinguished from the outer court next mentioned. It scarcely seems possible to doubt that the temple is here figuratively used of the faithful portion of the Church of Christ. The word is plainly thus used in Revelation 3:12 and Revelation 7:15; and is frequently found with this signification in St. Paul's writings, which were probably known to St. John.
Dusterdieck and others think that St. John refers literally to the temple at Jerusalem, and to the earthly Jerusalem. But, if so, this portion of the Apocalypse stands self condemned as a prediction which was falsified within a year or two of its enunciation; for in ver. 13 it is expressly stated that the tenth part of the city fell. And nowhere else in the book do Jerusalem and the temple signify the earthly places.

The object of the measurement is generally thought to be to set apart or mark off that which is measured from that which is felt without; but opinions vary as to why the temple is thus set apart, some thinking that it is the literal temple which is given over to destruction, others believing that the measuring is a token of the preservation of the Church of God. But may not the command have been given to St. John in order to direct his attention to the size of the Church of God? This is the common meaning of the expression throughout the Bible; it is so in Zechariah 2:1-5, a passage upon which this is possibly founded; and it is so in Revelation 21:15. Moreover, there seems a good explanation of the reason why such an incident, thus explained, should occur here. The six trumpets have spoken of the large portions of mankind against whom they were directed; the sixth has declared that men did nevertheless not repent. The seventh trumpet is about to announce yet more terrible woe for the worldly; and, previous to this, a brief but vivid description is given of the oppression to be suffered by the Church - a description inserted here in order to lead up to, and demonstrate the absolute necessity for, the terrible final judgment.

Among the ungodly are even some who are nominally members of the Church, who are typified by the outer court. No one could be more conscious that only a portion of the Church - "the elect" - was to be saved than the writer of the Epistles to the seven Churches (Revelation 1-3.). Might not the seer and his hearers be inclined to ask, "Who, then, can be saved? Are there any who escape when so much is said about the punishment in store for men?" In answer to such questions, the seer is bidden to remember, what is apt to be forgotten in the dejection caused by the contemplation of the huge amount of wickedness which undoubtedly exists in the world, viz. the large number of good men who form God's staple. It is to be noticed, also, that no mention is made of the command being actually carried out. It is as if the uttering of the command were sufficient to direct the attention of St. John to the fact which was to be conveyed to him, and that, therefore, the necessity for carrying out the injunction existed no longer.

It therefore seems probable that "the temple" must be interpreted symbolically. It is the dwelling place of God, the place in which he is worshipped; that is, the multitude of true believers, or the faithful Church. St. John is bidden to measure it, in order to sustain the faith and hope of himself and his hearers. It is placed in antithesis to the outer court, the faithless portion of the visible Church of God, which is given over to the Gentiles - the type of all that is worldly. And the altar, and them that worship therein. The altar of incense alone stood within the ναός; but this may be only an accessory detail in the general description, and not to be pressed to a particular interpretation. "Them that worship therein" directs our thoughts to the individual members of the one body which collectively is "the temple."

 

[timtams]

Well when it happens, I will let you apologize for calling us carnal! But I am used to that from preterists and amillenialists, and non-trib believers!

But you need to show where John was first transported to the temple, then to the Med sea and then to the Euphrates etc.etc. as He saw and wrote!

John was not a levite- do you have info to show otherwise?

There is a claim in early Christian writings that John was a Levitical priest.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If you are of the opinion these "future events" John as writing about did not take place "Shortly" after he was given the vision becasue the time was not "at Hand", would not you have to "throw out the prologue altogether" as well?



If the "Targeted Intentional Audience" were those 7, 1st century Churches in Asia Minor, then again, to ascribe fulfillment of those promises given to some other peoples, thousands of years removed, likewise asserts they were not the "targeted intentional Audience" after all.

Was our Lord merely issuing empty promises? Empty Threats? I don't believe so.

Jesus PROMISED the first century peoples at Sardis that His Thief's Coming would befall them in their Day. (Revelation 3:3) Was He Lying or just Mistaken? I say Neither. I say He Fulfilled that promise to them, back then, for He cannot Lie.



I too take John's meaning to be the Day of the Lord.
All these phrases are used interchangeably in scripture to mean the same thing:
The Wrath of the Lord = The Lord's Wrath
The Mercy of the Lord = The Lord's Mercy
The Vengeance of the Lord = The Lord's Vengeance
AND
The Day of the Lord = The Lord's Day.



Which, again would require you to excise the letters to the seven Churches from your Bible as meaningless, false promises that Jesus failed to fulfill to those 1st century Congregations.

Each of those Churches had unique, contemporary situations that were addressed by Christ's coming to them:

* Christ's Coming to First-Century Thyatira
promise: Revelation 2:18-25
result: their false prophetess and all her followers would be killed off by
Christ's coming. The Church was granted Christ's authority.

* Christ's Coming to First-Century Pergamum
promise: Revelation 2:12-16
result: the heretical Nicolaitans were to put down by Christ's coming to
Pergamum. The Nicolaitans that were causing them to break the decree of the Council of Jerusalem were killed (Rev 2:14; cf. Acts 15:28-29).

* Christ's Coming to First-Century Sardis
promise: Revelation 3:1-5
result: Christ promises them that his "thief-in-the-night" coming will come
upon them. They had not been faithfully expecting "the thief" as explained to them in Matt 24:43/1 Thess5:2-5. However, a few in Sardis were found worthy and had not soiled their garments. At Christ's coming to them "they walked in white, for they were worthy" (Rev 3:4-5).

* Christ's Coming to First-Century Philadelphia
promise: Revelation 3:7-13
result: Christ puts down the then-contemporary Jewish persecution (3:9).
He preserves the Church at Philadelphia through the testing which was then about to come upon the whole empire (3:10). God makes his faithful ones "pillars" in the Temple of God.

* Christ's Coming to First-Century Laodicea
promise: Revelation 3:14-21
result: Christ is shown to be knocking at their door as first promised in Matt 24:33 (cf. also James 5:9). If they didn't repent it appears they were annihilated. Repentant and obedient followers said to become partakers of Christ's heavenly authority.



Another important time indicator, as St John is seen here heralding the then present Arrival of "the Tribulation of Jesus Christ" in His day.

We can see from scripture that Christ's coming affected various then-contemporary situations. We can read of specific situations in Rev 2-3 and elsewhere.

Let's look at Thessalonica for a moment. Jesus came and cut off the Jewish persecution against the Thessalonian congregation. That's what they were expecting, and that is what they got -- scripture is very specific on it. It was a then-contemporary situation. Follow the scriptures on this...

The Thessalonicans were being persecuted by the Jews who were stirring up violence against them in their city (see Acts 17:1-14). Paul mentions this specifically at 1 Thess 2:14-16, saying that "God's wrath was to come upon them to the uttermost." Specifically, it was the coming of Jesus Christ to them that was to end that Jewish persecution against them. Paul writes:

"This is a plain indication of God's righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. For it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well WHEN the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire" (2 Thess 1:5-7)

Q. When would God give affliction to those that were persecuting the Thessalonican congregation and grant relief to the Thessalonians?

A. When the Lord Jesus was revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire.

Ask yourself:
Are the 1st century Thessalonians STILL suffering persecution at the Hands of the 1st century Jews?

If not, then the only option is that Christ’s coming happened and ended their persecution. There is no other scriptural option.

I could add many other things, but this will do for now. It is clear that the scriptures contain the historic record of the tribulation period, and they explain the relief that Christ's Parousia brought to the churches around the empire, precisely as they were promised. Christ did not fail them.

Great post especially the time statements concerning the 7 Churches.
Well done.

 

[nolidad]

OC Jerusalem 70AD is the great harlot in Revelation.
Just work backwards from there.

OK- that is your opinion.

So what is the mark of the beast that no one could buy or sell unless they had the mark?
When did the angels travel the world warning people not to take the mark?
Who were the two witnesses who had fire come out of their mouths?
When did they die and when did that three day party took place?
Who are the armies that came across the dried up Euphrates?

This is your belief so expalin these things. You can be as literal or as allegorical as you wish but explain them.

Show how and where the seals, bowls and trumpets took place.

What wasd wormwood?
When did the beast go after the woman and the church?
Where did the Jews flee for 3 1/2 years where God had a place for them?

Please answer these. I have taught Eschatology for over 20 years up to college level. Iff I am so dead wrong- I will need one like you to show me why I have so misunderstood SCripture.

 

[nolidad]

There is a claim in early Christian writings that John was a Levitical priest.

I would have to strongly disagree. He would not have left His father to follow Jesus and deny his course of duty in the temple! Jesus would not have wanted that until after He rose. There is nothing authoritative that says John was a levite.

 

[parousia70]

.
So what is the mark of the beast that no one could buy or sell unless they had the mark?

There are two identifiable "marks" in Revelation.

The sealing of the 144,000 jews is accomplished by a mark in the forehead in parallel fashion to the MARK of the beast in the forehead. (see Rev. 9:4 and Rev. 7:2-8 and Rev 14:1).

NOTE: futurists are never consistent on this: if one is physical-literal then shouldn't both MARKS should be seen as physical-literal? Yet just ask a futurist who is the "computer chip manufacturer" today who is producing the "Mark of God," and they have no answer. However, they could speculate all day and night on which technology company is in cahoots with satan to produce his computer implant.

John for certain didn't have computer chips in mind at all when he wrote the passage. Rather, as in so many other parts of Revelation, he was quoting the Old Testament. The following passages should be carefully examined when discussing "the mark on the forehead or hand" that marks people for doom or salvation:

Ez. Chapter 9 -- angels mark people for God's destruction of Jerusalem in 6th Century B.C.

Deut 6:8, Deut 11:18, Exodus 13:9 -- God's marks commanded to be upon the head and hands of his people to show their faithfulness

John's notions in his vision are related to Old Testament concepts -- not modern day conjectures that the MARK of the beast is to be thought of as some computer product.

The mark, even if "future" (which it isn't), is not nor could be physical, for "worship" of the beast is part and parcel to having the mark. You can't make somebody worship from their heart something they do not wish to worship from their heart, no matter how many implants, barcodes, tattoos ,etc...you force upon them.

You must have the mark and worship the beast.

The mark, therefore, must be spiritual, for only God knows who worships who in their heart.

 

[timtams]

I would have to strongly disagree. He would not have left His father to follow Jesus and deny his course of duty in the temple! Jesus would not have wanted that until after He rose. There is nothing authoritative that says John was a levite.

The quote is from Polycrates, who was bishop of Ephesus in the second century. You can disagree with him, but he nevertheless repeated what he knew, that John had been a priest.

 

[Berean Tim]

OK- that is your opinion.

So what is the mark of the beast that no one could buy or sell unless they had the mark?
When did the angels travel the world warning people not to take the mark?
Who were the two witnesses who had fire come out of their mouths?
When did they die and when did that three day party took place?
Who are the armies that came across the dried up Euphrates?

This is your belief so expalin these things. You can be as literal or as allegorical as you wish but explain them.

Show how and where the seals, bowls and trumpets took place.

What wasd wormwood?
When did the beast go after the woman and the church?
Where did the Jews flee for 3 1/2 years where God had a place for them?

Please answer these. I have taught Eschatology for over 20 years up to college level. Iff I am so dead wrong- I will need one like you to show me why I have so misunderstood SCripture.

I would add, Who is/was the False Prophet ? I've yet to find a Preterist answer to this.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I would add, Who is/was the False Prophet ? I've yet to find a Preterist answer to this.

Hello. Revelation is not an easy book for any Christian to comprehend.........

That aside, I keyed in "false prophet" into a concordance and found only 1 verse outside of Revelation that has the singular "false prophet"

Acts 13:6
When they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they found a magician,
a Jewish false prophet whose name was Bar-Jesus,

Mat 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.[OC wicked Jewish Rulers]

Paul warned his followers to beware of the OC Jewish Rulers of the circumcision group"

Acts 20:29 "For I have-perceived this.
That shall be entering after the departure of Me, wolves, weighty, into ye,
no sparing of-the shepherded/flock/poimniou <4168>" ;
==================================
Isaiah 9:15 shows the Prophet of Israel who teaches lies is the tail:

Deuteronomy 28:
1 'And it hath been, if thou dost hearken diligently to the voice of Jehovah thy God,...........
13 ‘And Yahweh hath given thee for head, and not for tail; and thou hast been only above, and art not beneath,........

15'And it hath been, if thou dost not hearken unto the voice of Yahweh thy Elohim.... that all these revilings have come upon thee, and overtaken thee:
44 “He shall lend to you, but you shall not lend to him; he shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.

Isaiah 9:
14 Therefore the LORD will cut off head and tail from Israel,
Palm branch and bulrush in one day.
15 The elder and honorable, he is the head;
The prophet who teaches lies, he is the tail.
====================================================
Revelation 12:4
His tail drew a third of the stars of the heaven and threw them to the land.
And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.

Which appears to be similar to Daniel 8:10

Daniel 8:10
And it grew great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
=========================
This one commentator says it is the 2nd beast, the one from the Land
[which is interesting as it appears to be a "Jewish" beast:]
I couldn't cut/paste from his site but here is the link:

https://davidjeremiah.blog/the-false-prophet-in-the-book-of-revelation/

================================
My thread on the 2 Beasts in Revelation:

Beast from the Sea and from the Land

This second beast is an earth-born beast. There is no possibility of confusing him with the first beast. They are utterly different. The first is a composite wild jungle beast, the second resembles a lamb, but inwardly bears the nature of a dragon.
Outwardly he looks like a kinder, gentler, harmless beast, having only two horns, and those of a harmless kind — like the horns of a lamb. Also, he has no crowns on his horns, indicating that he has no political sovereignty. When he speaks, however, he speaks like a dragon; and for all his harmless appearance he is a true therion, a savage, fierce, and cruel brute. When we look at his character and pretensions we find that, bad as the other beast was, there is something here yet more dreadful. The second beast does not accomplish his agenda by brute force; he works deception through signs, wonders, and miracles. The first gives his authority to the second, and the second persuades men everywhere to give respect and pay homage to an image of the first. They are in league and covenant, each aiding and abetting the other.

I would now draw your attention to the fact that the expression “I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth” is literally in the Greek, “I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth.” John did not say, “I saw a beast come up or ascend as a limited, one-time event, but coming up or ascending — denoting a continuous action. It is on-going. It is constantly being fulfilled. It cannot be bound by, nor does it predict or specify, any actual historical or future event. Instead, the beast is ascending, he is always ascending out of the earth-realm of the soul of man.
It is impossible to understand this truth of the two beasts unless we can distinguish between the sea, the earth, and the two beasts themselves. The first beast is not the sea-realm itself, but comes up out of the sea of humanity. The second beast is not the earth-realm itself, but comes up out of the earth, out of the soulical nature of man. So we are dealing neither with the wicked, surging masses of humanity nor the moral and religious people who bring a sense of stability to civilization..................

 

[Seventh Head]

So what is the mark of the beast that no one could buy or sell unless they had the mark?

The mark of the (second) beast - those of the financial power manifested by the City of London the coat of Arms of which has two dragons (spoke like a dragon) with one horn like a lamb each (it had two horns), linked to the antichrist (called 'dragon' for this link) - is the credit card in the right hand for all the ATM in the world have a right hand card reader.

So, you are forced to use your right hand to hold it. The mark on the forehead is the pin code number. All what is related to MEMORY is linked to the prefrontal cortex, hence the forehead, both for Satan and God.

666 is related to 1 kings 10:14 (666 talents of king Solomon, A man). The name of the beast is the BANK NAME on the card, and the number of its name is both the PIN CODE and the 16 DIGITS NUMBER on the bank card...provided by the said bank.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Preterist archive just put up the 5 videos of the 1st century Jewish Wars as described by Josephus, which culminated in the famous siege and conquering of the last Jewish stronghold, Masada.
[tho I have been aware of them for months]

The Preterist Archive of Realized Eschatology

The Siege of Jerusalem (70 AD)
In Four Parts By Invicta Classical Antiquity (Documentaries) 2016-2018
AUDIO / VIDEO:

• 2016-2018: Classical Antiquity Documentaries, The Siege of Jerusalem (70 AD)
  1. Romans at the Gates – The Siege of Jerusalem stands out as one of the most brutal examples of Classical Era total war since the fall of Carthage over 200 years earlier! In part 1 we discuss the lead up to the siege as well as the details of the attacking and defending forces.
  2. The Fight for the Walls – The Siege of Jerusalem continues to prove that the Jews are always one step ahead of the Romans with clever tactics and bold attacks! In part 2 we follow the legions as they push through two of the outermost defensive layers and almost face defeat.
  3. Assault on the Antonia Fortress – The Siege of Jerusalem has reached a new stage with the completion of the Roman wall of circumvallation. With this stranglehold in place, Titus now turns his full attention to the assault of the Antonia fortress!
  4. The Destruction of the Second Temple – This documentary takes you through the final climactic days of the siege from the destruction of the Second Temple to the fall of Jerusalem. Yet the Great Jewish Revolt against the Roman Empire and the Roman Legions would still burn on at the fortress of Masada.
  5. Last Stand of the Great Jewish Revolt – In 73 AD Masada, the impregnable mountain fortress in the Judaean desert, stood as the final holdout against the onslaught of Rome’s legions. The siege that followed would mark the final, bloody suppression of the Jewish revolt with an encounter whose awe inspiring remains can still be seen in the desert today!

"Ye will hear of battles and rumors of battles" 1st century concluding in Judea/Jerusalem 70ad

Matthew 24:
6 “And you will hear of battles and rumors of battles. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass,
but the end is not yet.
Mark 13:
7 “But when you hear of battles and rumors of battles, do not be troubled; for such things must happen,
but the end is not yet.
Luke 21:
9 “But when you hear of battles and commotions/tumults, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first,
but the end is not immediate.”
-------------------------------
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."
(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)


PREFACE
History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived
======================================

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

VISUAL TIMELINE OF THE ROMAN-JEWISH WAR
Including The Historical Fall of Jerusalem in AD70
TRACKING THE FIRST JEWISH REVOLT FROM A MILITARY POINT OF VIEW
POV: Administrative | Factional | Military | Theological

"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70

 

[Berean Tim]

Hello. Revelation is not an easy book for any Christian to comprehend.........

That aside, I keyed in "false prophet" into a concordance and found only 1 verse outside of Revelation that has the singular "false prophet"

Acts 13:6
When they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they found a magician,
a Jewish false prophet whose name was Bar-Jesus,

Mat 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.[OC wicked Jewish Rulers]

Paul warned his followers to beware of the OC Jewish Rulers of the circumcision group"

Acts 20:29 "For I have-perceived this.
That shall be entering after the departure of Me, wolves, weighty, into ye,
no sparing of-the shepherded/flock/poimniou <4168>" ;
==================================
Isaiah 9:15 shows the Prophet of Israel who teaches lies is the tail:

Deuteronomy 28:
1 'And it hath been, if thou dost hearken diligently to the voice of Jehovah thy God,...........
13 ‘And Yahweh hath given thee for head, and not for tail; and thou hast been only above, and art not beneath,........

15'And it hath been, if thou dost not hearken unto the voice of Yahweh thy Elohim.... that all these revilings have come upon thee, and overtaken thee:
44 “He shall lend to you, but you shall not lend to him; he shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.

Isaiah 9:
14 Therefore the LORD will cut off head and tail from Israel,
Palm branch and bulrush in one day.
15 The elder and honorable, he is the head;
The prophet who teaches lies, he is the tail.
====================================================
Revelation 12:4
His tail drew a third of the stars of the heaven and threw them to the land.
And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.

Which appears to be similar to Daniel 8:10

Daniel 8:10
And it grew great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
=========================
This one commentator says it is the 2nd beast, the one from the Land
[which is interesting as it appears to be a "Jewish" beast:]
I couldn't cut/paste from his site but here is the link:

https://davidjeremiah.blog/the-false-prophet-in-the-book-of-revelation/

================================
My thread on the 2 Beasts in Revelation:

Beast from the Sea and from the Land

This second beast is an earth-born beast. There is no possibility of confusing him with the first beast. They are utterly different. The first is a composite wild jungle beast, the second resembles a lamb, but inwardly bears the nature of a dragon.
Outwardly he looks like a kinder, gentler, harmless beast, having only two horns, and those of a harmless kind — like the horns of a lamb. Also, he has no crowns on his horns, indicating that he has no political sovereignty. When he speaks, however, he speaks like a dragon; and for all his harmless appearance he is a true therion, a savage, fierce, and cruel brute. When we look at his character and pretensions we find that, bad as the other beast was, there is something here yet more dreadful. The second beast does not accomplish his agenda by brute force; he works deception through signs, wonders, and miracles. The first gives his authority to the second, and the second persuades men everywhere to give respect and pay homage to an image of the first. They are in league and covenant, each aiding and abetting the other.

I would now draw your attention to the fact that the expression “I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth” is literally in the Greek, “I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth.” John did not say, “I saw a beast come up or ascend as a limited, one-time event, but coming up or ascending — denoting a continuous action. It is on-going. It is constantly being fulfilled. It cannot be bound by, nor does it predict or specify, any actual historical or future event. Instead, the beast is ascending, he is always ascending out of the earth-realm of the soul of man.
It is impossible to understand this truth of the two beasts unless we can distinguish between the sea, the earth, and the two beasts themselves. The first beast is not the sea-realm itself, but comes up out of the sea of humanity. The second beast is not the earth-realm itself, but comes up out of the earth, out of the soulical nature of man. So we are dealing neither with the wicked, surging masses of humanity nor the moral and religious people who bring a sense of stability to civilization..................

11Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. 12He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. 13He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. 14And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. 15And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

In the "greek" wild is only added by translators to distinguish from clean animals. The word "wild" is not in the text. I highlighted the things He does above. If you chose to believe the First Beast is real (Nero). Then, chose to believe the Second Beast is a composite or an allegory it's on you. You have no biblical reason to do so.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

11Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. .

In the "greek" wild is only added by translators to distinguish from clean animals. The word "wild" is not in the text. I highlighted the things He does above. If you chose to believe the First Beast is real (Nero). Then, chose to believe the Second Beast is a composite or an allegory it's on you. You have no biblical reason to do so.

Hello B T. Please post views/comments about that on this other thread.

Beast from the Sea and from the Land

 

[nolidad]

The quote is from Polycrates, who was bishop of Ephesus in the second century. You can disagree with him, but he nevertheless repeated what he knew, that John had been a priest.

Well we are all priests, but other than this one writing- there is no evidence from history that John was a levite! He would have had a higher position in Jewish culture than a fisherman!

 

[nolidad]

Hello. Revelation is not an easy book for any Christian to comprehend.........

That aside, I keyed in "false prophet" into a concordance and found only 1 verse outside of Revelation that has the singular "false prophet"

Acts 13:6
When they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they found a magician,
a Jewish false prophet whose name was Bar-Jesus,

Mat 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.[OC wicked Jewish Rulers]

Paul warned his followers to beware of the OC Jewish Rulers of the circumcision group"

Acts 20:29 "For I have-perceived this.
That shall be entering after the departure of Me, wolves, weighty, into ye,
no sparing of-the shepherded/flock/poimniou <4168>" ;
==================================
Isaiah 9:15 shows the Prophet of Israel who teaches lies is the tail:

Deuteronomy 28:
1 'And it hath been, if thou dost hearken diligently to the voice of Jehovah thy God,...........
13 ‘And Yahweh hath given thee for head, and not for tail; and thou hast been only above, and art not beneath,........

15'And it hath been, if thou dost not hearken unto the voice of Yahweh thy Elohim.... that all these revilings have come upon thee, and overtaken thee:
44 “He shall lend to you, but you shall not lend to him; he shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.

Isaiah 9:
14 Therefore the LORD will cut off head and tail from Israel,
Palm branch and bulrush in one day.
15 The elder and honorable, he is the head;
The prophet who teaches lies, he is the tail.
====================================================
Revelation 12:4
His tail drew a third of the stars of the heaven and threw them to the land.
And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.

Which appears to be similar to Daniel 8:10

Daniel 8:10
And it grew great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
=========================
This one commentator says it is the 2nd beast, the one from the Land
[which is interesting as it appears to be a "Jewish" beast:]
I couldn't cut/paste from his site but here is the link:

https://davidjeremiah.blog/the-false-prophet-in-the-book-of-revelation/

================================
My thread on the 2 Beasts in Revelation:

Beast from the Sea and from the Land

This second beast is an earth-born beast. There is no possibility of confusing him with the first beast. They are utterly different. The first is a composite wild jungle beast, the second resembles a lamb, but inwardly bears the nature of a dragon.
Outwardly he looks like a kinder, gentler, harmless beast, having only two horns, and those of a harmless kind — like the horns of a lamb. Also, he has no crowns on his horns, indicating that he has no political sovereignty. When he speaks, however, he speaks like a dragon; and for all his harmless appearance he is a true therion, a savage, fierce, and cruel brute. When we look at his character and pretensions we find that, bad as the other beast was, there is something here yet more dreadful. The second beast does not accomplish his agenda by brute force; he works deception through signs, wonders, and miracles. The first gives his authority to the second, and the second persuades men everywhere to give respect and pay homage to an image of the first. They are in league and covenant, each aiding and abetting the other.

I would now draw your attention to the fact that the expression “I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth” is literally in the Greek, “I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth.” John did not say, “I saw a beast come up or ascend as a limited, one-time event, but coming up or ascending — denoting a continuous action. It is on-going. It is constantly being fulfilled. It cannot be bound by, nor does it predict or specify, any actual historical or future event. Instead, the beast is ascending, he is always ascending out of the earth-realm of the soul of man.
It is impossible to understand this truth of the two beasts unless we can distinguish between the sea, the earth, and the two beasts themselves. The first beast is not the sea-realm itself, but comes up out of the sea of humanity. The second beast is not the earth-realm itself, but comes up out of the earth, out of the soulical nature of man. So we are dealing neither with the wicked, surging masses of humanity nor the moral and religious people who bring a sense of stability to civilization..................

Well lets tackle the last paragraph first.

"11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

The verb coming is the present active participle which simply connotes simple actrion- not continuous action.

Teh first beast is the amalgam of Daniels visions, Paul, Jesus, and Johns white horse rider!

Teh second beast is called the false prophet for he is the third and final part of the counterfeit trinity.

Father---Satan
Son---Antichrist
Holy spirit--- false prophet or lamb with horns.

Just as the Holy Spirit has a seal for those who belong to teh son, the false prophet has the counterfeit seal for those who belong to the counterfeit son.

Even JOhn in his epistles names the antichrist as the antichrist, but also said many antichrists would also arise. So we have the one Antichrists and many who are against christ.

REvelation CAN be a very difficult book to understand. I have studied for over twenty five years! I have also taught this in churches, bible institutes and bible college.

One here called me a dispensational futurist. I am sure they meant it as a slur, but I shall wear it proudly!

The antichrist is not an attiude nor is the false prophet an attitude of the soul- they are real individuals.

 

[nolidad]

The mark of the (second) beast - those of the financial power manifested by the City of London the coat of Arms of which has two dragons (spoke like a dragon) with one horn like a lamb each (it had two horns), linked to the antichrist (called 'dragon' for this link) - is the credit card in the right hand for all the ATM in the world have a right hand card reader.

So, you are forced to use your right hand to hold it. The mark on the forehead is the pin code number. All what is related to MEMORY is linked to the prefrontal cortex, hence the forehead, both for Satan and God.

666 is related to 1 kings 10:14 (666 talents of king Solomon, A man). The name of the beast is the BANK NAME on the card, and the number of its name is both the PIN CODE and the 16 DIGITS NUMBER on the bank card...provided by the said bank.

I thought all the Hal Lindsey foolishness was dead!

So every one who holds a credit card or atm card (debit card) are all doomed!

Rev. 13:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

People world wide can buy and sell without a credit or debit card!

See the number- it is the number of a man!

REv. 14:
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

So whoever has ever owned a debit or credit card is doomed forever according to you! When did the angel announce this globally??????

Sorry, but no.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I thought all the Hal Lindsey foolishness was dead!So every one who holds a credit card or atm card (debit card) are all doomed!
Rev. 13: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Sorry, but no.

Agree. There also were no credit cards back in 70ad, however, the denari was..

Revelation 6:6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "a measure of grain/wheat a denari and three measures of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring"."

1st century Jerusalem and Temple is in Revelation 18. Just work backwards from there and the rest of the Bible will come alive for you........

Nahum 3:2
A sound of a Whip, and sound of a quaking wheel, and horse galloping, and chariot leaping. A horseman mounting. And blazing sword, and flashing spear,
and many wounded and mass of corpses and there is no end to bodies.

John 2:14
14 and He found in the Temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting,
15 and having made a whip of small cords, He put all forth out of the temple, also the sheep, and the oxen; and of the money-changers he poured out the coins, and the tables he overthrew,
[Nahum 3:2/Reve 18:11-13]

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:
11 And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over Her, that the cargo of them no-one is buying not-still
13 and cinnamon and incenses and attars and frankincense and wine and oil and flour and grain and beasts and sheep and of horses and of chariots and of bodies and souls of men.

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made. Not less than two thousand laid violent hands upon themselves.........
In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
=====================
Revelation 18:8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving Her blows, death and sorrow and famine. And in fire She shall be utterly burned, that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her

Revelation 19
17 And I perceived one messenger standing in the sun, and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven,
"hither! be ye being gathered<4863:! into the Supper<1173> of the Great God.
18 That ye may be eating fleshes of kings......[Zeph 1:17/Ezekiel 39:19]

 

[Berean Tim]

Hello B T. If you will notice, I did not add "wild" to the beasts in my translation shown below........

Please post any additional views/comments on this other thread.

Beast from the Sea and from the Land

Revelation 13:
The Beast Out of the Sea

1 And I was standing on the sand of the sea and I saw out of the sea a Beast ascending, having seven heads and ten horns.
And upon its horns ten diadems, and upon its heads names of blasphemy.
2 And the Beast that I saw was like as a leopard,and its feet as of a bear and its mouth as the mouth of a lion.
And the Dragon gives to it his power and throne and great authority.
3 And one out of its heads as having been slain/slaughtered into death, and the blow of the death of it was healed.
And the whole land marvels after the Beast.
4 And they worship to the Dragon that it gives authority to the Beast,
and they worship to the Beast, saying, ‘Who like to the Beast? who is able to war with it?
5 And was given to it a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies.
And was given to it authority to do which it is willing forth two months.
6 And it open it's mouth into blasphemies toward the God, to blaspheme His name and His Tabernacle and those who in the heaven tabernacling.
7 And was given to it to do war with the Saints and to overcome/conquer them.
And was given it authority over every Tribe and Tongue and Nation.
8 And shall be worshiping it all those dwelling upon the land,
of whom not has been written his name in the Scroll of the Life of the Lambkin, of the One slain/slaughtered from the foundation of the world.
9 If any is having ear — let him hear!
10 If any to captivity, into captivity he is giong away.
If any in sword shall be killing, it is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the Saints.
Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

The Beast Out of the Land

11 And I saw another Beast ascending out of the land,
and it had two horns like a lambkin and it spoke as a Dragon.
12 And the authority of the first Beast all it is doing in view of it.
And is making the land and those dwelling in it that to be worshiping the first Beast, of which was cured the blow of the death of it.
13 And it is doing great signs that even fire it may be making out of the heaven descending into the land in view of the men.
14 And it is deceiving those dwelling on the land thru the signs which was given to it to do in view of the Beast,
saying to those dwelling upon the land to make an image to the Beast which hath the blow of the sword and lives.
15 And was given to it to give spirit to the image of the Beast, that also the image of the Beast should be speaking.
And should be causing as many as shall no should be worshiping to the image of the Beast, that they may be being killed.

16 And it is causing all the small and the great and the rich and the poor, and the freemen and the servants that may be giving to them a mark upon their right hand or upon their foreheads.
17 And that no one may be able to buy, or to sell, except he who is having the mark of the beast or the name of the beast, or the number of it's name.
18 Here the wisdom is being!
The one having mind, let him calculate the number of the beast, for number of man it is, and its number six hundred sixty six.

I would now draw your attention to the fact that the expression “I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth” is literally in the Greek, “I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth.”
Above is the quote from your post. Sorry

 

[timtams]

Well we are all priests, but other than this one writing- there is no evidence from history that John was a levite! He would have had a higher position in Jewish culture than a fisherman!

He must have had a pretty high position since he could just waltz into the palace of the high priest whenever he wanted, and he was known to the high priest.

 

[nolidad]

Agree. There also were no credit cards back in 70ad, however, the denari was..

Revelation 6:6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "a measure of grain/wheat a denari and three measures of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring"."

1st century Jerusalem and Temple is in Revelation 18. Just work backwards from there and the rest of the Bible will come alive for you........

Nahum 3:2
A sound of a Whip, and sound of a quaking wheel, and horse galloping, and chariot leaping. A horseman mounting. And blazing sword, and flashing spear,
and many wounded and mass of corpses and there is no end to bodies.

John 2:14
14 and He found in the Temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting,
15 and having made a whip of small cords, He put all forth out of the temple, also the sheep, and the oxen; and of the money-changers he poured out the coins, and the tables he overthrew,
[Nahum 3:2/Reve 18:11-13]

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:
11 And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over Her, that the cargo of them no-one is buying not-still
13 and cinnamon and incenses and attars and frankincense and wine and oil and flour and grain and beasts and sheep and of horses and of chariots and of bodies and souls of men.

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made. Not less than two thousand laid violent hands upon themselves.........
In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
=====================
Revelation 18:8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving Her blows, death and sorrow and famine. And in fire She shall be utterly burned, that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her

Revelation 19
17 And I perceived one messenger standing in the sun, and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven,
"hither! be ye being gathered<4863:! into the Supper<1173> of the Great God.
18 That ye may be eating fleshes of kings......[Zeph 1:17/Ezekiel 39:19]

Yes and 66-70 Ad was teh judment in Luke for the unpardonable sin.

But there are also end time events that Jesus spoke of in Matthew and Luke that were not fulfilled in 66-70 Ad that will be fulfilled in the end.

Like the antichrist (abomination who makes desolate) standing in the holy place (Titus did not do that)
7 year covenant with Israel signed by the beast.

Breaking that covenant halfway through the 7 years.

Jews fleeing to Petra for 3 1/2 years

Campaign of armeggedon.

The seals bowls and trumpets.

I am asking you as you are the one who is a preterist in our debate!~