Should the minimum wage be hiked?

[FenderTL5]

reading through the thread the gist seems to be: despite what the studies and history indicates, (I) believe the opposite of that information

...Currently President Trump's policies are resulting in higher wages pretty much across the board for most...
This was accomplished with reform of the tax code plus deregulation...

First of all, I would challenge the notion that there are across the board wage increases, "for most". Wages have been static for hourly workers for years, even in decline when inflation is factored.
Secondly, IF<- if wages are increasing it is not due to Trump's policies because they were intended to do the opposite, “...the President’s tax cuts, which are going to stimulate a lot of investment, productivity growth and downward pressure on wages.” -Peter Navarro Assistant to the President, and Director of Trade and Manufacturing Policy, April 2018

.

 

[Archivist]

The people who always seem to get hurt when the minimum wage is increased are students working part-time jobs. When the wage goes up employers tend to require more work from their full-time employees and cut back or eliminate part-time student workers. Sad because many times these young people are trying to save money for college.

 

[aiki]

 

[OldWiseGuy]

All raising the minimum wage does is raise the baseline. If the cost of labor for non-skilled job goes up, then the skilled labor jobs also have to increase or no one is going to do the more difficult skilled jobs. As the price of labor increases, so does the end price in all products and services increase. So the $1 product is now $2. The $1000 a month rent goes up to say $1500 a month because it costs more to maintain that apartment and more people are willing to pay more. The cost of electricity goes up because it costs more to pay the same personnel to do the same job. And so on. The net result is just an inflated dollar that doesn't buy any more product or services so the same people are still struggling.

You nailed it.

 

[98cwitr]

Here's an interesting piece on WSJ about the possible ramifications of hiking minimum wage to $15 an hour. Amazon had done that and as an investor, I'm OK with it. CBO seems to suggest that many jobs would be lost as well. I believe all the 2020 Democrats are big on this. What do you folks think?

Links:

$15 Minimum Wage Would Bring Mixed Fortunes for U.S. Workers

https://www.vox.com/2019/7/8/20686392/federal-15-minimum-wage-raise-the-wage-act

Would be a textbook case of Cobra Effect. It would created more automated jobs, resulting in higher unemployment. Simply put, a job seeker enters into a wage contract freely and can choose whether or not to accept a job based on offered compensation. To force companies to pay a minimum certain rate will result in more job loss and fewer jobs overall.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The people who always seem to get hurt when the minimum wage is increased are students working part-time jobs. When the wage goes up employers tend to require more work from their full-time employees and cut back or eliminate part-time student workers. Sad because many times these young people are trying to save money for college.

No worries. That's just part of the 'natural selection' process applied to economics. Survival of the fittest.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Im old enough to remember the $2.00 minimum then the rise to $5.00 then 7.50. The problem is the decline in the value of money and the solution is more to go back to a silver or gold standard then you have price stability. You cannon mandate wages except in abusive situations. The job creates a cost for the employer that they have to recover. When the cost gets too high he can't make a profit and mandated wages will eliminate jobs. Look around you are bagging your own groceries and seeing kiosks at fast food restaurants and you pump your own gas and this is before AI and the new wave of robotics that can take away even more jobs. If you could pay a high school kid say 8-10 an hours to bag groceries we might have more help in the store. Those wages at a young age help the families out and teach the kids some responsibility too and money management skills. They also have the sense of not getting a handout and it effects the values. You can vote it in and wait 7 years and they will be wanting to vote for $20 an hour. The big question that effects us all is how long can we run huge debts and then inflate the money until we turn into Venezeuea? Things to not go up just in cents they usually go up in percentages. so the time it took for prices to double is the same but each time you double the prices have gone up exponentially . We are seeing the end of the dollar era and for those who know prophecy we can speculate how it will end and what will come after.

 

[Sparagmos]

Even if statisticians and economists had not reported that jobs will be lost, I would think it obvious that such a raise will force many employers to reduce staff. We already see it in many businesses after much more modest hikes in the minimum wage than this one.

Studies in places that have already raised the minimum wage show little or no job losses. Here in the northwest we’ve raised the minimum wage quite a bit, and there is actually a shortage of workers in the food and beverage industry, and overall lower unemployment than the country as a whole. So we know - raising the min wage doesn’t result in higher unemployment.

 

[Sparagmos]

As inflation goes up the minimum wage will need to go up.

But as LaBella pointed out, there's always a catch.

When bottled water companies started to "Go Green!" and use bottles made with less plastic, did prices go down and stay down? (I'm guessing they didn't.)

When food companies decided to "Go Healthy!" and offer less food "for your sake", did prices go down and stay down?

Doubling the minimum wage sounds good to a lot of people but why do you think all companies will

1) have the extra money for such a sudden increase?

2) Not have the money for the sudden increase, but will hire lots more new employees with a smile and expect everything to work out?

3) Have the money for the sudden increase but NOT cry poor, lay off tons of folks, and pass on any remaining cost to customers?

I ask these questions as someone with sympathies to the economic left.


--------------
As an aside, how long do you think it will be until we see the left half of Twitter and Facebook agitating for IWWs "4 Hour Work Day, Four Day Week"? And how long until we see 35 Democratic Presidential Candidates raise their hands in favor of it? Just asking.
--------------

No one is proposing a sudden increase. Did you read the article? We don’t have to wonder and guess at what might happen. Just look at the places that have already raised the minimum wage, they’re doing just fine.

 

[Sparagmos]

reading through the thread the gist seems to be: despite what the studies and history indicates, (I) believe the opposite of that information

First of all, I would challenge the notion that there are across the board wage increases, "for most". Wages have been static for hourly workers for years, even in decline when inflation is factored.
Secondly, IF<- if wages are increasing it is not due to Trump's policies because they were intended to do the opposite, “...the President’s tax cuts, which are going to stimulate a lot of investment, productivity growth and downward pressure on wages.” -Peter Navarro Assistant to the President, and Director of Trade and Manufacturing Policy, April 2018

.

Yeah it’s disturbing that people are just ignoring the cold hard facts in the OP article and continuing right on with their preconceived notions. Wages are going up because minimum wages have already been increased all over the country, and because of the public pressure on large companies by the “fight for 15,” not because of Trump tax cuts or deregulation.

 

[miamited]

Hi mukk,

My two cents worth...

I believe that the federal minimum wage should be raised. Pretty much everyone pays better than that minimum wage already. However, I'm not sure that $15 should be the standard nationwide. For federal minimum wage I'd be happy with $10-11/hour. Local municipalities and states are always able to raise minimum wages for a particular area where the cost of living may well be higher than much of the rest of the nation.

There are always articles that decry the damage that will be done every time raising the minimum wage comes up. So far, we haven't suffered an serious or lasting harm. Unfortunately, it seems to be just a short gain objective. We raise the minimum wage and for a short while those at the bottom of the food chain are making a little better income. However, after a year or two prices adjust and those same people find their buying power no better than it was before it all began.

However, I do believe that the federal minimum wage is out of step with most wage floors today.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[Albion]

Studies in places that have already raised the minimum wage show little or no job losses. Here in the northwest we’ve raised the minimum wage quite a bit, and there is actually a shortage of workers in the food and beverage industry, and overall lower unemployment than the country as a whole. So we know - raising the min wage doesn’t result in higher unemployment.

No, studies have shown that there are significant losses, but it may depend on what kinds of minimum wage hikes you are referring to in your own experience.

For instance, a gradual or incremental increase has less impact than the $15/hr proposals that are the topic now, which actually amount to $18.61 when the obligatory payroll taxes, etc. are added.

Claims that say the impact is not so great also do not account for the number of people forced into part-time jobs as a result. They are still "employed", after all.

 

[archarios]

.

 

[Sparagmos]

No, stuies have shown that there are significant losses, but it may epen on what kinds of minimum wage hikes you are referring to in your own experience. For instance, a graual or incremental increase has less impact than the $15/hr

So you didn’t read the OP? It says the opposite - there have been no significant losses shown. And the only minimum wage increases that have happened have been gradual, no one is proposing a sudden increase to $15. I’m not getting the impression that you have researched this topic at all.

 

[Albion]

So you didn’t read the OP? It says the opposite - there have been no significant losses shown.

No, it doesn't, and significant losses have occurred.

 

[Sparagmos]

Small Businesses Struggling With $15 Minimum Wage, New Site Reports

Seattle's $15 minimum wage may be hurting workers, report finds

Feeling burned by a $15 minimum wage

The city is gradually increasing the hourly minimum to $15 over several years. Already, though, some employers have not been able to afford the increased minimums. They've cut their payrolls, putting off new hiring, reducing hours or letting their workers go, the study found.

https://downtrend.com/71superb/seattles-minimum-wage-increase-causing-small-businesses-to-close/

Seattle's $15 minimum wage debate catches small businesses in the middle

First casualty of Seattle’s $15 minimum wage

-------------

Seems like you ignore the fact that businesses have closed over this because it hurts your argument. Why do you do that?

The study on Seattle has been debunked and since it was published the unemployment rate there has dropped even more. There are more jobs in the minimum wage sectors in Seattle right now than there are workers. There’s a ton of available OT being offered because the economy is booming and they have a low wage worker shortage.

Edit: I’ll add, look at the dates on all of those articles. Some are close to 4 years old. Restaurants fail at a very high rate as it is and when economists looked closer they saw that no more restaurants closed after the min wage increase than normally do. There literally aren’t enough cooks to staff restaurants right now in Seattle.

 

[archarios]

.

 

[archarios]

.

 

[archarios]

.

 

[Sparagmos]

No, it doesn't, and significant losses have occurred.

“It used to be taken for granted that raising the minimum wage would decrease the number of low-wage jobs, and that teenagers would have more difficulty finding part-time work. Economists published research in the 1970s showing that it did happen, likely because restaurants and department stores had to cut jobs and work hours to cover the cost of paying employees more.

But in the past decade, progressive economists have challenged these assumptions with new data that is now available.

Dozens of Democratic-held cities and states have increased the minimum wage floor over the years, well above the current federal minimum of $7.25 an hour. Recent research suggests the worst-feared consequences of minimum wage hikes did not come to pass: Employment did not decrease in places where wages went up, and there was actually a residually positive effect on wages for other lower-income workers.”

Please tell us about the significant losses. I don’t think you have researched this topic, or have any first hand knowledge.