Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

[bcbsr]

Your confused here brother. I have never said any such thing. If I have never said any such think why do you pretend that I have? .

So you're claiming that you have not been saved? Right? I, and many of us, have already been saved. In fact it says of the Ephesians, "it is by grace you have been saved, through faith" That's already a done deal for many of us. Our fate has already been finalized. Until you abandon your reliance on your own performance to save you and redirect your trust to be in Christ alone you many never get to where many of us have already arrived.

 

[Grip Docility]

Isaiah 43:11

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Then follow Apostle Paul’s advice and cast the 10 out! I bet Jesus would be a better choice to hold on to! No Man can serve two masters.

Your confused JESUS, PAUL and all the APOSTLE have never said to ABOLISH God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) If you did that there would be no knowledge of what sin is. If we have no knowledge of what sin is we have no need of a Savior from sin. If you have no need of a Saviour then we are lost because we are still in our sins. You do not know what the purpose of God's ETERNAL LAW is in the NEW COVENANT do you *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4?

 

[Grip Docility]

Your confused JESUS, PAUL and all the APOSTLE have never said to ABOLISH God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) If you did that there would be no knowledge of what sin is. If we have no knowledge of what sin is we have no need of a Savior from sin. If you have no need of a Saviour then we are lost because we are still in our sins. You do not know what the purpose of God's ETERNAL LAW is in the NEW COVENANT do you *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4?

I showed you the 10 in the Old Covenant that passed... per Hebrews 9

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So you're claiming that you have not been saved? Right? I, and many of us, have already been saved. In fact it says of the Ephesians, "it is by grace you have been saved, through faith" That's already a done deal for many of us. Our fate has already been finalized. Until you abandon your reliance on your own performance to save you and redirect your trust to be in Christ alone you many never get to where many of us have already arrived.

Nope I have never stated any such thing and if I have never stated that I have not been saved why pretend that I am saying things that I am not? You do not seem to read what is posted to you or address any of my posts and the scriptures and questions in them that disagree with you. Is there a reason for that? I think we both know what the reason is.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I showed you the 10 in the Old Covenant that passed... per Hebrews 9

No you didn't you simply refused to talk about HEBREWS 9 and wanted to talk about anything else but when it was shown to you that your claims of HEBREWS 9 were not saying what you were claiming they were. I am happy to repost the conversation if you like. Just let me know Also you are confused in what made of the OLD COVENANT as well as the NEW. Did you wish to talk about it?

 

[Grip Docility]

A New Command I give you... Ahem!!!

 

[Grip Docility]

No you didn't you simply refused to talk about HEBREWS 9 and wanted to alk about anything else but when it was shown to you that your claims of HEBREWS 9 were not saying what you were claiming they were. I am happy to repost the conversation if you like. Just let me know

Sanai means SIN

 

[bcbsr]

Do you believe in positional righteousness, or practicing righteousness?

Both. We are made right with God though faith in Christ. That's our status. Our sins and lawless deeds are remembered no more, in keeping with God's New Covenant promise (Heb 8:12) We then receive the right to become children of God (John 1:12,13), which takes no effort on our part. But it does have the inevitable effect of making us into new creatures (2Cor 5:17) which among other things impacts our behavior such that "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 (That would be the "practicing righteousness part). Of course that then extends to our glorification in heaven in which we are perfected.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

They weren't so Eternal when ... wait for it... Moses cast them down towards the worship of a golden calf!

Symbol that God's people had broken God's law. Next..

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Sanai means SIN

No it does't it is a Moutain in Arabia (both Hebrew and Greek)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

A New Command I give you... Ahem!!!

Indeed no one loved another like JESUS loved us. Your point here?

 

[Grip Docility]

Indeed no one love another like JESUS loved us. Your point here?

What do you think the hand that wrote the stone, wrote in the dirt, before the adulterous?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What do you think the hand that wrote the stone, wrote in the dirt, before the adulterous?

The sins of the accusers... then JESUS said to the women..

JOHN 9:10-11 [10], When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said to her, Woman, where are those your accusers? has no man condemned you? [11], She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said to her, Neither do I condemn you: go, and sin no more.

Do you believe the Words of JESUS?

If you have no LAW (10 commandments) in the NEW COVENANT there is no knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Phil W]

All this is great in theory and it is usually held by those who have never gone through a time when their Christian life has turned to custard and that they fully realise that there is no good thing in themselves and they are, in practice and reality, totally dependent on God's grace and mercy just to get into heaven, let alone be able to do anything for the Lord in this life.

My experience with Romans 7 is the reality.
You identify with Paul the Jew, and failure.
I identify with Paul the Christian and Romans 8:2..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
And with Romans 8:4..."That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Humility is not a pleasant experience, but it is a much more valuable experience than any Charismatic experience anyone can have. God resists the proud who think they are getting somewhere in their Christian experience and have amassed some brownie points with the Lord, but he gives grace to to the humble who realise that they are poor sinners and nothing at all, but Jesus Christ is their all in all.

I pray that your humility is towards God, and you have submitted to all His will.
Of course that would preclude sin, wouldn't it?

The Charismatic "hallelujah hootenanny" types avoid that type of experience because it doesn't fit their happy, happy, sensory experiences, so they dream up the theory that because all their sins are forgiven and they have the Holy Spirit in them, they don't have to fight and struggle against their own sinful flesh. They've never experienced Paul's saying that the flesh wars against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh, because they are in a state of denial about that struggle and fight in themselves, and are using the Scripture as an excuse.

If "that experience" is the humility you wrote of, how is that humility manifested?

 

[Phil W]

Paul called it a tent and a body of death. But you probably knew that.

Oh yes.
I see Paul begging for deliverance from "this body of death" in Rom 7:24.
But knowing Romans 7 is a transition between life in the flesh and life in the Spirit, I realize that Rom 6:6-7 supplies the deliverance Paul reminisces of in Rom 7..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin."
Those killed with Christ are freed from sin.
Praise be to God for deliverance!

 

[Phil W]

I have to be real... I smell Tom foolery.

What then is the purpose of rebirth?
If a man is the same in the new vessel as he was in the old, why is it necessary?
What does it accomplish?

 

[Phil W]

I’m sure 1 John 1:8-10 is a minor inconvenience that simply has to be “commentaried” out of the picture?

It seems the commentaries you are used to have convinced you that no man can serve God perfectly.
Too bad.
As for 1 John 1:8...
John is writing to a church, about two kinds of men.
Those who walk in the light, and those who walk in the darkness.
Those who walk in the light have had ALL their sins cleansed by the blood of Christ. They CAN say they have no sin.
Those who walk in darkness cannot say they have no sin, because they do continue to commit sin.
John uses an A-B, A-B, A-B style of writing. (Also used by Paul in Romans 8...Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh.)
A applies to those who walk in the light and B applies to those who walk in the darkness.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 refer to those who walk in the light.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 refer to those who walk in the darkness.

 

[bcbsr]

Of course it is possible to fall away from God's WORD and continue in known unrepentant sin.

Not if one has been born of God, because "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 And of those who do fall away it is written, "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19

 

[Phil W]

The Scripture supports genuine obedience for Christian believers, but accepts the reality that total obedience is not possible in this life.

Scripture, please.
Peter doesn't agree with you..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
John doesn't agree with you... "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)
Paul doesn't agree with you..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
The writer of Hebrews doesn't agree with you..."But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." (Heb 10:39)
I don't agree with you either.

 

[bcbsr]

Your just repeating yourself here brotheri. There is no such thing as once saved always saved. It is not biblical. This has already been shown in detail already in posts # 404; post # 405; post # 406; post #407 all linked showing the scriptures you are ignoring in your interpretation of God's Word. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear. We ignore God's WARNINGS at our own peril.

You just repeated yourself and ignored the scriptures I provided which prove eternal security. I can also provide you with Romans 8 in which "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." And in which nothing can separate the elect from their predestined glorification including nothing in their "future" Rom 8:38

As for your posts the contain the usual faulty interpretations which I keep pointing out. Confusing Old Covenant with New, arbitrarily adding "in order to be saved" to commands, confusing nominal faith with genuine faith, and confusing cause and effect.

Don't confuse the condition to be saved with the condition of the saved.