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Creationist Resources?

trophy33

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And I am surprised you would hypothesize amazing miracles than just look at the text and see that God had more than enough water available to destroy th eland mass.
I think you are trying to see miracles when not needed. Have you ever experience a flood? Waters rise up, things are under waters and then the waters recede. I do not know why you think that the water did not "spill over" of something. For example, the creation of the Mediterranean sea was of course a very wild event.


Everything of the flood can be explained easily by geology, meteorology and paleantology. Fewer and less hollywood style miracles are nee3ded for the biblical account than for the myst account.
No matter what creationist websites tell you, there is no evidence in science for the global Flood and its also impossible for the story to happen, if it was a global flood. From the impossiblity to take all animals (dinosaurs included) to ark, to survive on the ark all the shaking (it would be like shaking with a wooden box in every imaginable manner) etc.

Also the language is so clearly regional, like "all the earth was dry", not planetary.
Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth

Also, it makes sense that Eden is under the Persian gulf, which was created by the Flood:

https://phys.org/news/2010-12-lost-civilization-persian-gulf.html
The Biblical World: Noah's Ark and the Persian Gulf.
Lost Civilization beneath the Persian Gulf Confirms Genesis History of Humanity
 
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nolidad

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I think you are trying to see miracles when not needed. Have you ever experience a flood? Waters rise up, things are under waters and then the waters recede. I do not know why you think that the water did not "spill over" of something. For example, the creation of the Mediterranean sea was of course a very wild event.



No matter what creationist websites tell you, there is no evidence in science for the global Flood and its also impossible for the story to happen, if it was a global flood. From the impossiblity to take all animals (dinosaurs included) to ark, to survive on the ark all the shaking (it would be like shaking with a wooden box in every imaginable manner) etc.

Also the language is so clearly regional, like "all the earth was dry", not planetary.
Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth

Also, it makes sense that Eden is under the Persian gulf, which was created by the Flood:

https://phys.org/news/2010-12-lost-civilization-persian-gulf.html
The Biblical World: Noah's Ark and the Persian Gulf.
Lost Civilization beneath the Persian Gulf Confirms Genesis History of Humanity


YOu try to lecture on science when you do not even know that water will find a path of least resistance!

A valley is open ended in at least one side (usually two) so if you have a cataclysmic deluge in a valley, the water will flow though the open ends- that is a law! It has been proven so many tiumes as to be without debate! In a valley- it is impossible for the waters to rise over the highest hills in the region by 21.5 feet. Even if the ends of teh valley got plugged! as soon as the water started breaching the top of the hills- it would just roll down the mountain and flow to teh unaffected areas!


There is enormous evidence for a global flood! continent wide sedimentary formations! The fossil record speaks of hydraulic catastrophe! Maybe you should watch Dr. Steve Austins video on Mt. St. Helens and why it is powerful evidence for the flood.

Also things like bent rocks, multiple layers of sediment and on and on!

Yes the language would strongly imply regional. Especially since the word all is not in teh original Hebrew or aramaic!

Why does it make sense that Eden is under the persian gulf??? I can't say of teh persian gulf was created by the flood or its boundaries simply changed, but I do know the oceans were post flood creations!

Gen 1:
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

The ante deluvian world was so different topographically! the waters were iin one place surrounded by land! Which makes perfect sense given the vast oceans of oil (animal fossil fuel) and mountains of coal coal (tree and green fossil fuel)
 
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nolidad

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Well I will take the word of native Hebrew Speakers who all confirm that one river flowed out of Eden and split into four branches.

The phrase "10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads."

and from thence it was parted is one word "parad" in the Niphal imperfect and it only means to be divided or separated not joined.

The topography of teh whole world was completely changed. so we may never know the location of the original garden.
 
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nolidad

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Myst writes: "No matter what creationist websites tell you, there is no evidence in science for the global Flood and its also impossible for the story to happen, if it was a global flood. From the impossiblity to take all animals (dinosaurs included) to ark, to survive on the ark all the shaking (it would be like shaking with a wooden box in every imaginable manner) etc."

I have looked at both creationist and anti creationist web sites for the flood- I prefer the science proven by the YEC experts.

Well see you err in your thinking of the animals because you appear not to be a careful reader of the bible. Genesis 6:20 God sent the animals to Noah! Noah did not have to go gather them.

Noah took two of every kind not two of every single species!

But maybe you should read the accounts of how many animals the ark could actually hold. Even dinosaurs! Remember this is a survival barge to repopulate the planet so God would have made sure He sent two young animals of each kind!

Two dog kind, tow cat kind two oxen kind etc.etc., Mendels law has proven that within each "kind" there is the ability for great variation!

And yes the flood in the beginning would have been quite bumpy to say the least! However we do not know if there were any fountains of the deep that were broken up in the proximity of the ark or not! Knowing God as little as I do I would opine no, but that is just opinion. But once the ark started floating it would not necessarily been a very hard ride!

studies were done in wave tanks with a scale model of a flat bottomed ark . It could easily handle waves that shifted the ark to near 90 degrees to the perpendicular and still remain afloat. It also showed massive stability in turbulent waters. So that is a non starter at least from an experimental aspect of what a violent storm would do to an ark!
 
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The Barbarian

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I have looked at both creationist and anti creationist web sites for the flood- I prefer the science proven by the YEC experts.

"YEC experts" came up with such woofers as vegetarian T-rex, and a flat Earth. So understandably, people don't find them very convincing.

Well see you err in your thinking of the animals because you appear not to be a careful reader of the bible. Genesis 6:20 God sent the animals to Noah! Noah did not have to go gather them.

How did the koalas and dodos get there? After the flood, how did they get back home?

Noah took two of every kind not two of every single species!

Perhaps you should actually read the Bible, instead of listening to your YEC "experts." That's not what scripture says.

But maybe you should read the accounts of how many animals the ark could actually hold. Even dinosaurs! Remember this is a survival barge to repopulate the planet

As you learned, God does not say the entire planet was flooded. That's another revision of the YECs.

so God would have made sure He sent two young animals of each kind!

Hint: "clean" and "unclean."

Two dog kind, tow cat kind two oxen kind etc.etc., Mendels law has proven that within each "kind" there is the ability for great variation!

That's the retreat creationists made when they realized that the Ark couldn't possibly have every kind of land organism. So they redefined "kind" to allow evolution of new species, genera and families of organisms.

That's still a problem. You see, that would mean the thousands of different species of mammal we see today, would have to evolve about 5,000 years by some kind of hyperfast evolution that no one has ever seen or can even explain. Another magic fix for flaws in your new doctrines. And with roughly 35,000 species of land vertebrates, that would mean new species popping up monthly.

And no one thought it was worth mentioning. Really? C'mon.

But once the ark started floating it would not necessarily been a very hard ride!

It would have been a very leaky one. You can't build a wooden vessel that large, without it flexing and leaking at the seams. The largest wooden ship ever built, the Wyoming was as big as the Ark is said to be, and leaked so badly from flexing that pumps had to be continously operated to keep it from sinking. It eventually did sink, having been caught in open seas in a storm. So now, you need a magical fix for that as well.

studies were done in wave tanks with a scale model of a flat bottomed ark . It could easily handle waves that shifted the ark to near 90 degrees to the perpendicular and still remain afloat.

Two words: Froude numbers. Learn about it, and then see if the people doing the "studies" actually accounted for scaling. And yes, it matters.
 
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nolidad

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"YEC experts" came up with such woofers as vegetarian T-rex, and a flat Earth. So understandably, people don't find them very convincing.



How did the koalas and dodos get there? After the flood, how did they get back home?



Perhaps you should actually read the Bible, instead of listening to your YEC "experts." That's not what scripture says.



As you learned, God does not say the entire planet was flooded. That's another revision of the YECs.



Hint: "clean" and "unclean."



That's the retreat creationists made when they realized that the Ark couldn't possibly have every kind of land organism. So they redefined "kind" to allow evolution of new species, genera and families of organisms.

That's still a problem. You see, that would mean the thousands of different species of mammal we see today, would have to evolve about 5,000 years by some kind of hyperfast evolution that no one has ever seen or can even explain. Another magic fix for flaws in your new doctrines. And with roughly 35,000 species of land vertebrates, that would mean new species popping up monthly.

And no one thought it was worth mentioning. Really? C'mon.



It would have been a very leaky one. You can't build a wooden vessel that large, without it flexing and leaking at the seams. The largest wooden ship ever built, the Wyoming was as big as the Ark is said to be, and leaked so badly from flexing that pumps had to be continously operated to keep it from sinking. It eventually did sink, having been caught in open seas in a storm. So now, you need a magical fix for that as well.



Two words: Froude numbers. Learn about it, and then see if the people doing the "studies" actually accounted for scaling. And yes, it matters.


YEC scientists never taught a flat earth- that is you and you ilk imposing pagan beliefs onto scripture.
And yes before the fall all animals were vegetarians!

Genesis 1:
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

How did they get there? C'mon man! Ubereth and Lyfteth!!!! LOL

I do read the bible and it says two of every kind! Dog is a kind. Cat is a kind! we did not have the hundreds of species of dogs back then like we do today! Same with cats and I am sure same with all other animals! Though that cannot be proven empirically.

Yes the Bible says the whole earth!

Gen. 7:

17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

God used certain modifiers just for the purpose of those who read the
bible through their own opinions!

The whole earth and the whole heavens! And you cannot flood a region so that the mountain tops were under 21.5 feet of water. As soon as the water hits the top it keeps spilling over and starts spreading out again! C'mon man! You are the declared scientist in this discussion and i know this better than you ?

Clean and unclean . Yes 7 pair of each clean bird andf animal (that list was much shorter than the Leviticus list . So sue me!

That's the retreat creationists made when they realized that the Ark couldn't possibly have every kind of land organism. So they redefined "kind" to allow evolution of new species, genera and families of organisms.

That's still a problem. You see, that would mean the thousands of different species of mammal we see today, would have to evolve about 5,000 years by some kind of hyperfast evolution that no one has ever seen or can even explain. Another magic fix for flaws in your new doctrines. And with roughly 35,000 species of land vertebrates, that would mean new species popping up monthly.

And no one thought it was worth mentioning. Really? C'mon.

Well as I have all the material on recent YEC studies it is not new!
But here is a study for you:
How did all the animals fit on Noah's Ark? - creation.com

a blurb from AIG:

How Many Species Are in the World Today?
Skeptics often assert that there are millions of species in the world— far more than the number that could fit on the ark. However, according to estimates published in 2014, there are fewer than 1.8 million documented species of organisms in the world. Consider also that over 98 percent of those species are fish, invertebrates, and non-animals (like plants and bacteria). This means that there are fewer than 34,000 species of known, land-dependent vertebrates in the world today.2

Given the average size of land animals is about a sheep (remember as Noah was bringing them to repopulate the earth they would have been young breeders)

So the ark was more than roomy enough for the animals and food and yes even the fecies from teh species!!!

It would have been a very leaky one. You can't build a wooden vessel that large, without it flexing and leaking at the seams. The largest wooden ship ever built, the Wyoming was as big as the Ark is said to be, and leaked so badly from flexing that pumps had to be continously operated to keep it from sinking. It eventually did sink, having been caught in open seas in a storm. So now, you need a magical fix for that as well.

Wrong again! It was pitched inside and out! and if the boats from 2000 B.C. from greece were taught and handed down by Noah and his descendants the boards were habeen a kind of tongue and groove and thus very unleakable and if the pegs were just a size smaller than the holes and pounded in. As they got wet they would have expanded and form a water tight seal!

As for breaking? Not in the least! If Noah (and I am sure He did as God gave Noah the blueprints) had honeycombed the cross beams and made the beams not in the same plane but on each level in differing places- it would have exponentially added to the strength of the ship. ICR did a scale test because of this concern in a wave tank and found that by honeycombing the inner beams and stalls, the ship would have been nearly as string as a modern liner! Of course there may have also been a little help from god! But of course you eschew the miraculous in the first chapters of Genesis!

Two words: Froude numbers. Learn about it, and then see if the people doing the "studies" actually accounted for scaling. And yes, it matters.

Well as engineers and others did the planning and designing- why don't you ask them directly? They will tell you! See I am not one who think that YEC scientists are deliberately trying to deceive and fake data!
 
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The Barbarian

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YEC scientists never taught a flat earth-

Once again, you're wrong...

Most YECs have accepted a round Earth and heliocentrism, just as they've accepted a limited amount of evolution. For obvious reasons. It's just not possible, even for a person thoroughly indoctrinated into the Seventh-Day Adventist doctrine of YEC, to deny some things.

I found this amusing bit from AIG:

“Do They Really Think the Earth Is Flat?” They’re a tiny minority of untrained, pseudoscientific hacks who—partially based on an overly literal interpretation of Scripture—buy into a disproven, centuries-old myth rather than accepting well-established modern science.


They seem to have not realized that much of the description applies to YECs.


that is you and you ilk imposing pagan beliefs onto scripture.

In fact, long before Christ, "pagans" knew the Earth was round. One "pagan", Eratosthenes, actually found a way to measure its circumference. But we still see YECs peddling flat Earth beliefs, because a literal reading of the Bible includes a flat Earth.

Flat Earthers -- Members of the Flat Earth Society believe that the shape of the earth is flat because a literal reading of the Bible demands it (Schadewald, 1991). Charles K. Johnson is the head of the International Flat Earth Society, headquartered in Lancaster, CA, and he is very serious about the planet´s shape being as the ancients perceived it: circular and flat, not spherical. The earth is shaped like a coin, not a ball. References in the Bible to the "four corners of the earth" refer to the cardinal directions; more relevant are references to the "circle of the earth", implying a 2-dimensional, flat plane. The International Flat Earth Society has only about 200 members (Schadewald, 1980) and is insignificant in the antievolution movement. However, it represents the most extreme biblical literalist theology: the earth is flat because the Bible says it is flat. Scientific views are of secondary importance.
The Creation

And yes before the fall all animals were vegetarians!

That makes this really hard to explain...

T rex tooth found embedded in prey, restoring dinosaur's reputation

Tooth lodged in plant-eating dinosaur's spine proves that T rex wasn't just a scavenger but also hunted live prey

T rex tooth found embedded in prey, restoring dinosaur's reputation

(Barbarian suggests nolidad learn what the Bible says)

I do read the bible and it says two of every kind!

Genesis 7:1 And the Lord said to him: Go in thou and all thy house into the ark: for thee I have seen just before me in this generation. [2] Of all clean beasts take seven and seven, the male and the female. [3] But of the beasts that are unclean two and two, the male and the female. Of the fowls also of the air seven and seven, the male and the female: that seed may be saved upon the face of the whole earth.

Yes the Bible says the whole earth!

No, it does not. What your translation has as "earth" is "eretz" (land). For example, the word is used to describe the land occupied by the people of Israel. But nowhere does it say the entire Earth was covered. That's a modern addition by YECs.

And it wouldn't matter if they sealed the hull. A wooden ship that size flexes enough to pop seams and leak extensively. Can't be done. This why YECs don't just build an ark and take a cruise to prove it would work. They already know it would sink.
 
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