Philly Catholic foster agency loses appeal to discriminate against gay people

Hank77

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Okay then - in what way does a couple’s presumed sexual activities impact their ability to be good adoptive parents?
I never said anything about their sexual activities interfering with being good parents. That was never my position.
You need to go back in the posts to find out who that was, it wasn't me.
 
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David Brider

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I never said anything about their sexual activities interfering with being good parents. That was never my position.
You need to go back in the posts to find out who that was, it wasn't me.

But you just said that it’s relevant to their ability to be good adoptive parents. And you’ve already said that you don’t think it’s in the child’s best interests to be adopted or fostered by a same sex couple. So why don’t you think it’s in the child’s best interests?
 
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Hank77

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I don't think that the sexual relationship between the couples really matters, although I think it will be assumed that married couples living and sleeping together are active.
But you just said that it’s relevant to their ability to be good adoptive parents
I meant to say 'of coarse not'. I believe that they can be loving, kind, good disciplinarians, etc. But I don't believe it's in the best interest of the child. I have already stated some of the reasons why, you can go back and read those post.
Unless you have something new to address or new statements from child psychologists, the Pediatrics Assoc., etc. I am done responding. This discussion has run it's coarse for me.
 
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KCfromNC

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The short answer is, they will know because they will ask probably in the interview. On home inspection they will ask about the sleeping arrangements in the home.

They probably ask about the parents' sex lives? I'd love to see some documentation to back that up.
 
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KCfromNC

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Nothing. I don't think single people adopting, or long-term fostering, is what's best for children either. Children need role models in their personal life that are both female and male.


Over a hundred years ago this was recognized by a judge who saw too many kids in his courtroom. He began a program to provide the missing fathers. That program has grown over the years into what we have today. The Big Brothers and Big Sisters of America.
This program has been and is supported by many Presidents and First Ladies, national sports leagues, individuals, etc. who recognize that children need these role models of both male and female.

Public/Private Ventures Study on Big Brothers Big Sisters Community-Based Mentoring shows measurable, positive results on youth who have a Big Brother or Sister, seminal research in the field of youth mentoring.
...
President Obama holds a White House National Mentoring Month Ceremony; Big Brothers Big Sisters attends and plays a key role.

You are being redirected...

The article below makes many good points about why children are better served by having both male and female parents.
Male role models make a huge impact on a child's life

EDIT: adding a link
https://www.pediatricsoffranklin.co.../the-importance-of-a-father-in-a-childs-life/

So where does this show that children are better overall with divorced parents compared to a stable same-sex married couple?
 
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Hank77

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They probably ask about the parents' sex lives? I'd love to see some documentation to back that up.
They will ask about their relationship with each other. Are you a couple or are you friends/room mates? They will ask about the relationships of everyone living in the home.
 
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Hank77

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So where does this show that children are better overall with divorced parents compared to a stable same-sex married couple?
It shows how important it is for children to have a close relationship to both a female and male as they are growing up.
I won't be responding to anymore of your posts because I think we have covered the issue and I don't have anymore evidence or opinion to present.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Just as much as the Catholic ban on gay clergy says that priests have heterosexual sexual proclivities. Doesn't mean that either can't be celibate - meaning your claim that the group's problem was with behavior rather than orientation is incorrect.
No, that's experience speaking, not declaration of the parties. Look at the thousands of victims.

Sure, any individual could possibly be celibate, but when making an issue of being a couple to the Catholic Agency, that is quite unlikely. That's not the point anyway.

Same logic prevails when the RCC declines to take a priest that declares homosexuality. That is still the official position, despite the flagrant rebellion today. You don't take vows and then say, "Screw you. I'm doing what I want!"

Here's one example of what it is dealing with today:

"In his new book and in several interviews Father Pierre Valkering has talked openly and in detail about his homosexuality. The Dutch priest, who works in a parish in Amsterdam, spoke about his sexual relationships and also said he visits gay saunas and dark rooms, and likes to watch inappropriate content.


In a statement to De Gaykrant, a Dutch newspaper for the gay community, Bishop Jos Punt said that while he appreciates Valkering’s honesty and understands his struggle, he nevertheless asked him to lay down his priestly duties because the priest refuses to abide by his vow of celibacy.

This is incompatible with a worthy exercise of the priesthood.”

This is the sort of flagrant opposition that the RCC is dealing with today, and at least it has, in form anyway, upheld scripture so far on this issue.

Dutch bishop suspends gay priest after he refuses to live celibate lifestyle
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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But you just said that it’s relevant to their ability to be good adoptive parents. And you’ve already said that you don’t think it’s in the child’s best interests to be adopted or fostered by a same sex couple. So why don’t you think it’s in the child’s best interests?
He explained that several times. Children need their MOM AND DAD. It's irresponsible to intentionally deprive your child of this. Sure, people sometimes die, and some leave, due to their own issues. But none of that should happen to a child and a child deserves his own mom and dad loving each other and him. This is what is best for children.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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He explained that several times. Children need their MOM AND DAD. It's irresponsible to intentionally deprive your child of this. Sure, people sometimes die, and some leave, due to their own issues. But none of that should happen to a child and a child deserves his own mom and dad loving each other and him. This is what is best for children.
Except there's to many kids in foster care . And not enough moms and dads. Turning decent people away over being gay. Just means a good amount of kids dont get adopted. And get lost in the system. They basically turn into adults. And become what Conservative Christians and Republicans complain about. So loving parent or parents are better than foster care.
 
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KCfromNC

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They will ask about their relationship with each other. Are you a couple or are you friends/room mates? They will ask about the relationships of everyone living in the home.
But nothing about their sex lives, despite what was asserted earlier? Seems like I'm not getting a straight story here.
 
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KCfromNC

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It shows how important it is for children to have a close relationship to both a female and male as they are growing up.
I won't be responding to anymore of your posts because I think we have covered the issue and I don't have anymore evidence or opinion to present.
Well, if that's the best you can find I guess I'll remain unconvinced.
 
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KCfromNC

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No, that's experience speaking, not declaration of the parties. Look at the thousands of victims.

Sure, any individual could possibly be celibate, but when making an issue of being a couple to the Catholic Agency, that is quite unlikely. That's not the point anyway.

Same logic prevails when the RCC declines to take a priest that declares homosexuality. That is still the official position, despite the flagrant rebellion today. You don't take vows and then say, "Screw you. I'm doing what I want!"

Here's one example of what it is dealing with today:

"In his new book and in several interviews Father Pierre Valkering has talked openly and in detail about his homosexuality. The Dutch priest, who works in a parish in Amsterdam, spoke about his sexual relationships and also said he visits gay saunas and dark rooms, and likes to watch inappropriate content.


In a statement to De Gaykrant, a Dutch newspaper for the gay community, Bishop Jos Punt said that while he appreciates Valkering’s honesty and understands his struggle, he nevertheless asked him to lay down his priestly duties because the priest refuses to abide by his vow of celibacy.

This is incompatible with a worthy exercise of the priesthood.”

This is the sort of flagrant opposition that the RCC is dealing with today, and at least it has, in form anyway, upheld scripture so far on this issue.

Dutch bishop suspends gay priest after he refuses to live celibate lifestyle

I have no idea what you think you're demonstrating here.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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I have no idea what you think you're demonstrating here.
You said this: Just as much as the Catholic ban on gay clergy says that priests have heterosexual sexual proclivities. Doesn't mean that either can't be celibate - meaning your claim that the group's problem was with behavior rather than orientation is incorrect.

I responded to demonstrate that indeed it is behavior inconsistent with Catholic values (and scripture) that is the issue.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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How much public funding do they currently get? And do they discriminate based on the gender of the people applying?

That's nice, but the problem here isn't about the group being religious. It is about their policy of gender discrimination.
Absolutely false. It is directly and specifically because the religious tenets define family, and the agency has always abided by this. Until now.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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He explained that several times. Children need their MOM AND DAD. It's irresponsible to intentionally deprive your child of this. Sure, people sometimes die, and some leave, due to their own issues. But none of that should happen to a child and a child deserves his own mom and dad loving each other and him. This is what is best for children.
I haven't seen any proof. That kids are better off with a female and male only parents. I think the perfect thing for children , is for bio parents to be raising their child. Even same sex couples. That used a donor. Unless the bio parents cant or don't want to parent their child.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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I haven't seen any proof. That kids are better off with a female and male only parents. I think the perfect thing for children , is for bio parents to be raising their child. Even same sex couples. That used a donor. Unless the bio parents cant or don't want to parent their child.
Same sex couples are not and cannot ever be "bio parents" (plural). We aren't created to reproduce this way, for good reason.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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Same sex couples are not and cannot ever be "bio parents" (plural). We aren't created to reproduce this way, for good reason.
Actully, one can. If hey use donor sperm. Or donor egg. My niece just had a boy. Her eggs with a sperm donor. The sperm donor even got to see the baby. Her wife has a few girls. With the wifes eggs and a sperm donor. So they are raising their kids. But used some elses sperm. So far , very happy kids ,and teens.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Actully, one can. If hey use donor sperm. Or donor egg. My niece just had a boy. Her eggs with a sperm donor. The sperm donor even got to see the baby. Her wife has a few girls. With the wifes eggs and a sperm donor. So they are raising their kids. But used some elses sperm. So far , very happy kids ,and teens.
So, only one bio parent, just as I said.

Wonder how much that costs? God's way is free. I cannot imagine intentionally depriving a child of a father (or a mother).
 
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