Can the Church Survive Without man's tradition?

[Tone]

Just another way to look at it. It seems that those who believe that the Church can survive without the Bible, are the very same who couldn't live without their tradition...

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Just another way to look at it. It seems that those who believe that the Church can survive without the Bible, are the very same who couldn't live without their tradition...

I think the church can, it just needs to disband every generation to ensure people born into it don't assume things that cannot be known in a yes box.

 

[com7fy8]

I think there are traditions which are in God's word and very beneficial; for example >

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," (in Philippians 2:13-16)

I think this needs to be a tradition of any church. To me, by the way, this shows how complaining and arguing are anti-love; and so, as we stop whatever in us that would get us to complain or argue, this can help us to get more real with God in His love and how we relate with one another as Jesus family, plus how we can care for and help enemies.

God's love is "blameless and harmless" and "without fault". So, I see this does mean how God expects us to be corrected and transformed to be more the way Jesus is in love. And if God commands this, this is a realistic expectation . . . since His grace can easily accomplish this in us, doing so better than anything we might try to get our own selves to do.

So, if God means this, this needs to be a tradition, what we depend on God to do in us.

 

[Tone]

traditions which are in God's word

I wouldn't call these "man's traditions"; though they must be preserved by us, they do not originate with us.

this needs to be a tradition

What does qualify as a legit and godly tradition?

 

[Tone]

I think the church can, it just needs to disband every generation to ensure people born into it don't assume things that cannot be known in a yes box.

What would this look like?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted. (James 1:27)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What would this look like?

Probably house churches that cast out the children of the kingdom at the age of 18 if they don't get born again. lol . who knows? Since God calls us as sheep and not wolves (casting young ones out at a certain age so they can fend for themselves is a wolf characteristic) .. it's probably not going to happen.

 

[Dave-W]

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us


2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us

 

[com7fy8]

traditions which are in God's word

I wouldn't call these "man's traditions"; though they must be preserved by us, they do not originate with us.

I say you were clear in the title of this thread, asking if the church can survive without what you said are "man's" traditions. And I did not mean to say you consider Biblical things to be "man's" ways. You are quite clear

What does qualify as a legit and godly tradition?

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted. (James 1:27)

Except, maybe, Michael, you meant to write > "unspotted from the world" at the end of your verse quote. But I realize there are different wordings in different Bibles, including in mine >

"Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)

Now, of course, Tone > using this scripture as an example . . . this would not be a godly tradition, if someone is trying to get one's own self to do this and one is trying and likely struggling to keep his or her own self from being spotted by this evil world. So, a Biblical version of this would include personally submitting to God and depending on Him to change us and guide how we care for widows and the fatherless.

So, I would say a godly tradition would be what is in the Bible, and the person is submissive to discovering how God has the person doing it.

 

[Basil the Great]

As I recall, in "The Shoes of the Fisherman" film, Anthony Quinn, playing the Russian Pope, told his Cardinal advisers that the only thing necessary for the Church to survive is the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sola1517]

Just another way to look at it. It seems that those who believe that the Church can survive without the Bible, are the very same who couldn't live without their tradition...

The way I see it, tradition is just man's opinion on the Bible. So you can't really have one without the other.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us


2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us

The word "tradition" can also simply mean "teaching." This is what the word could mean when it first appeared in the late 13th century according to Etymonline.com.

Tradition:

"from Old French tradicion "transmission, presentation, ..." (late 13c.)"​

Source:
tradition | Origin and meaning of tradition by Online Etymology Dictionary

Obviously a "presentation" is merely a "teaching."

2 Thessalonians 2:15 CEV says,
"My friends, this is why you must remain faithful and follow closely what we taught you in person and by our letters."

2 Thessalonians 3:6 NIV says,
"In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from us"

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted. (James 1:27)

But that's the Bible. Not a man's tradition or a man's teaching.

 

[Tone]

Now, of course, Tone > using this scripture as an example . . . this would not be a godly tradition, if someone is trying to get one's own self to do this and one is trying and likely struggling to keep his or her own self from being spotted by this evil world. So, a Biblical version of this would include personally submitting to God and depending on Him to change us and guide how we care for widows and the fatherless.

So, you're saying that a Bible based, godly tradition is doing what is Written by the power of His Holy Spirit? If so, I agree fully!

So, I would say a godly tradition would be what is in the Bible, and the person is submissive to discovering how God has the person doing it.

Agreed!

 

[Tutorman]

Can the Church Survive Without man's tradition?

I am sure the Church could thrive with evangelism

 

[Tone]

As I recall, in "The Shoes of the Fisherman" film, Anthony Quinn, playing the Russian Pope, told his Cardinal advisers that the only thing necessary for the Church to survive is the Holy Spirit.

So wouldn't that entail His Work (the Bible), which includes the proper "traditions" as in @com7fy8's verse:

"Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)

None of which are man's traditions, though man is told to carry them on.

 

[Tone]

Just another way to look at it. It seems that those who believe that the Church can survive without the Bible, are the very same who couldn't live without their tradition...

The way I see it, tradition is just man's opinion on the Bible. So you can't really have one without the other.

Hmmm...I just spotted something in what I wrote and with what you said and is summed up in this:

If the people in question, are truly the Church, then whatever traditions they have, should be biblical. Therefore, I would agree with you that we can't have one without the other.

*But I don't agree that tradition is only "man's opinion".

 

[Sola1517]

If the people in question, are truly the Church, then whatever traditions they have, should be biblical.

Yes, although some are more biblical then others. I will not name names.

 

[Tone]

I am sure the Church could thrive with evangelism

Yes, evangelism is a Biblical mandate.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I see the word "tradition" as simply meaning "teaching" and it was not some oral passed down generational thing. The apostles learned things directly from the Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament period. This was not some hundreds of years passed down oral tradition or some special book called "traditions" that they were referring to. It simply means "teaching."

We have to understand that words do not always mean the same as they did in the 1600's. The KJV (While I believe it is the perfect Word of God for our day) influenced Modern Translations. I side with the view that the word "tradition" back in that time simply meant "teaching." It is a teaching that was to be written down as Scripture. It was not a totally new or separate teaching, but one that lines up with what we see in God's Word (the Bible) that we have today.