Hamas has fired over 450 rockets into Israel

[essentialsaltes]

Is that what happened? Or is there any chance that Hamas was firing rockets from the roof of the building?

That doesn't seem likely. Israel called the building to evacuate it before the bombing. But it's possible they added "Don't tell the people on the roof" just before they hung up.

I'm curious about what your point is here? Population is dense?

Since they are trapped in an area that is dense, there aren't many alternatives to "areas that are heavily populated by civilians".

You've also got [Hamas and Islamic Jihad] who is trying their best to hit anyone....military or otherwise. You're upset with the wrong people.

I've got plenty of upset for everyone.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That doesn't seem likely. Israel called the building to evacuate it before the bombing. But it's possible they added "Don't tell the people on the roof" just before they hung up.

Well let's dig around a bit...

Deutsche Welle Adds: Bombed Turkish News Office Was in Hamas-Occupied Building

I'd say that changes things a bit lol. I hope the building was leveled.

Since they are trapped in an area that is dense, there aren't many alternatives to "areas that are heavily populated by civilians".

Maybe you're forgetting that the terrorists and government are the same people. They could easily evacuated an area before using it.

I've got plenty of upset for everyone.

Cool...so how long do you think Israel should put up with this nonsense? At what point is enough enough?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Cool...so how long do you think Israel should put up with this nonsense? At what point is enough enough?

1440 years.

Obviously, your question is a rhetorical one, an emotional appeal to ethnic nationalism, with no real intention of leading to a solution, other than the pretty final-sounding one of 'destroying Palestine and taking it all'. Fortunately, Jared's peace plan is coming soon.

 

[usexpat97]

I'm sure Hamas just woke up one day and said, "Hey! I think I'm going to fire several hundred rockets at Israelis today!"

Nothing at all to do with Israel killing 4 Gazans the day before. But that doesn't make the news. After all, they're only Palestinians. Instead the first news getting reported is the rocket attacks, so as to make the American public think that is the beginning of the story, with Israel just "retaliating".

 

[Michael]

I'm sure Hamas just woke up one day and said, "Hey! I think I'm going to fire several hundred rockets at Israelis today!"

Nothing at all to do with Israel killing 4 Gazans the day before. But that doesn't make the news. After all, they're only Palestinians. Instead the first news getting reported is the rocket attacks, so as to make the American public think that is the beginning of the story, with Israel just "retaliating".

That's the part that bugs me. Zionism is a big part of the problem and nobody wants to discuss it. Israel has been out of compliance with UN resolutions since almost day one and certainly since 1967.

I can't entirely blame Israel for not wanting to give back the Golan Heights, but the current situation is unresolved and unacceptable to the Palestinians, and there isn't an easy way to resolve it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

1440 years.

How did you come up with that number?

Obviously, your question is a rhetorical one, an emotional appeal to ethnic nationalism,

Obviously? It wasn't rhetorical...it's common sense. Every nation has the right to defend themselves. It's not an emotional appeal and I made no reference to ethnic nationalism....I don't know where you're pulling that stuff out of but I can make a guess.

It's a simple concept...one state is constantly being attacked by it's neighbor. It always manages to defend itself, but it's people never get to live in peace. How long must it endure before it can take measures that ensure it's neighbor can never attack it again? Nobody wants that to happen....but nobody wants to die or lose their legs or arms to a rocket attack either.

with no real intention of leading to a solution, other than the pretty final-sounding one of 'destroying Palestine and taking it.

If every attempt at peace has failed and Palestine is dedicated to the destruction of Israel (literally every political party they have holds that platform)....what other solutions do they have?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm sure Hamas just woke up one day and said, "Hey! I think I'm going to fire several hundred rockets at Israelis today!"

Nothing at all to do with Israel killing 4 Gazans the day before. But that doesn't make the news. After all, they're only Palestinians. Instead the first news getting reported is the rocket attacks, so as to make the American public think that is the beginning of the story, with Israel just "retaliating".

It undoubtedly does....Palestinians held their weekly protest. During the protest, Israel claims shots were fired at their forces and they had soldiers injured. As a rule, Israeli forces shoot at any Palestinian who gets too close to the wall.

I've seen it happen....it's pretty fast. They get a verbal warning, a warning shot, then they are shot at. I think they typically try to shoot for the lower leg....but obviously that's different if people are shooting at Israelis.

 

[Michael]

If every attempt at peace has failed and Palestine is dedicated to the destruction of Israel (literally every political party they have holds that platform)....what other solutions do they have?

And yet that's only half of the story because we have Zionists on the other side who are unwilling to accept a two state solution, and unwilling to abide by UN resolutions. It's not a one sided problem, and there's plenty of blame on both sides.

Israeli settlement - Wikipedia

 

[essentialsaltes]

How did you come up with that number?

Do you prefer 6 minutes? 45 weeks?

Obviously? It wasn't rhetorical...it's common sense.

No, asking a question about 'how long', but not expecting an answer in terms of time is a rhetorical device.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Do you prefer 6 minutes? 45 weeks?



No, asking a question about 'how long', but not expecting an answer in terms of time is a rhetorical device.

I was thinking more in terms of attacks.

 

[rambot]

I'm curious how long it will be before we hear Gaza's reasons for starting these attacks.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with Israeli encroachment or other types of land annexation issues.

No. It's that those wild beasts in Gaza and blood thirsty animals.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I'm curious how long it will be before we hear Gaza's reasons for starting these attacks.

Their stated reason (which does not justify indiscriminately firing rockets into Israel) is that Israel is "reneging on the deal to allow in cash assistance of $30 million a month from Qatar, expand fishing rights and ease the restrictions on imports and exports that have choked Gaza’s economy." (WaPo)

 

[rambot]

Their stated reason (which does not justify indiscriminately firing rockets into Israel) is that Israel is "reneging on the deal to allow in cash assistance of $30 million a month from Qatar, expand fishing rights and ease the restrictions on imports and exports that have choked Gaza’s economy." (WaPo)

And these seem unreasonable to the Israelis?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm curious how long it will be before we hear Gaza's reasons for starting these attacks.

I've heard them.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with Israeli encroachment or other types of land annexation issues.

Depends on the audience really.

No. It's that those wild beasts in Gaza and blood thirsty animals.

That's awfully dehumanizing.

 

[Ana the Ist]

And yet that's only half of the story because we have Zionists on the other side who are unwilling to accept a two state solution, and unwilling to abide by UN resolutions. It's not a one sided problem, and there's plenty of blame on both sides.

Israeli settlement - Wikipedia

Zionists?

Israel pushed for a two state solution for decades. Palestine, from my understanding, has never had majority support for it.

It's certainly possible that settlements are illegal....I'm not exactly sure where international law supercedes national sovereignty. What I do know, is that UN resolutions are toothless if not enforced...and it doesn't seem like the international community is in a hurry to kick Israelis out of their homes.

 

[Michael]

Zionists?

Ya, those guys.

Israel pushed for a two state solution for decades. Palestine, from my understanding, has never had majority support for it.

I don't think they've really been serious since Rabin, and he was assassinated for even coming close.

It's certainly possible that settlements are illegal....I'm not exactly sure where international law supercedes national sovereignty. What I do know, is that UN resolutions are toothless if not enforced...and it doesn't seem like the international community is in a hurry to kick Israelis out of their homes.

I think this issue could be settled in two years simply by cutting off both sides financially until they work it out. Nothing short of that is likely to succeed IMO.

 

[Ana the Ist]

And these seem unreasonable to the Israelis?

From what I read, it's unreasonable to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and others who believe Qatar is sneaking weapons into Palestine.

I mean seriously, where do they keep getting these rockets from? If you think it's down at Ali's Rocket Emporium....you're wrong.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Ya, those guys.

Well I'm not quite sure what you think that means, but...

"Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut]after Zion) is the nationalist[fn 1] movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel."

Basically if you believe Israel has the right to exist....you're a Zionist.

I don't think they've really been serious since Rabin, and he was assassinated for even coming close.

Why?

I think this issue could be settled in two years simply by cutting off both sides financially until they work it out. Nothing short of that is likely to succeed IMO.

I think that would work....but only by forcing Israel to destroy Palestine. What's their incentive not to at that point?

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

isaiaha 17 speaks of Damascus being destroyed in a single day. Iran is in Syria and this also speaks to Ezekiel 38 where Gog Magog and Persia are drawn to attack Israel and are destroyed. All this is shaping up in current events.

How much of your own money would you bet on that ?

 

[Michael]

Well I'm not quite sure what you think that means, but...

"Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut]after Zion) is the nationalist[fn 1] movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel."

Basically if you believe Israel has the right to exist....you're a Zionist.

It's not the fact they want a homeland that's the problem, it's the fact they want the *whole territory* as a homeland that's the problem. The moment Rabin tried to create a two state solution, he was killed by a Zionist.

There's also a basic problem with not creating a separation between Church and state and trying to create a theocracy. They never work and they always end up oppressing anyone who disagrees with the theocracy. That's the beauty of America. It allows for real religious freedom by creating a separation between Church and state.

Why?

Because Netanyahu has continued to build so called "settlements" on the wrong side of the green line, that's why. Why does he keep doing that? Zionism (like tying to take the whole thing), that's why.

I think that would work....but only by forcing Israel to destroy Palestine. What's their incentive not to at that point?

They will never get another dime from us if they do that. Even in that case, at least their Zionism is exposed for what it truly is - oppressive and violent.