Sri Lanka Blasts 156 dead, over 500 injured in six explosions at Churches and Hotels

[All Englands Skies]

That's a testable belief. Pew polled Muslims in foreign nations about Islamic extremists:

Pew found that American Muslims are more like Americans generally, than they are like Muslims in other nations. I don't know why that would be a surprise. As Ronald Reagan said, America is a shining city on a hill, in which people coming to the city become Americans.

ISIS is an embarrassment to them, as it undermines Islamic PR machine.

However amongst practising Muslims, they'll condemn ISIS in one breath, but then in the next they'll be saying Islamist ideology and supremacist things

Most of them nations you list, while condemning ISIS, make their societies pro-Islam and treat non-Muslims as second place to Muslims, Islam is in a privileged legal position over others and the movement to change that is outnumbered by movements wanting to keep or increase Islams control

You make the misconception that the only form of Islamists are ISIS, while there are many different groups, with different M.O's working towards the goal of Islam having control over others.

The genuine Muslims against this are the secularists, like most Albanians, liberal Turks in the western Turkish cities and most Muslims in Tatarstan, Russian federation, etc

 

[Archivist]

ISIS is an embarrassment to them, as it undermines Islamic PR machine.

However amongst practising Muslims, they'll condemn ISIS in one breath, but then in the next they'll be saying Islamist ideology and supremacist things

Most of them nations you list, while condemning ISIS, make their societies pro-Islam and treat non-Muslims as second place to Muslims, Islam is in a privileged legal position over others and the movement to change that is outnumbered by movements wanting to keep or increase Islams control

You make the misconception that the only form of Islamists are ISIS, while there are many different groups, with different M.O's working towards the goal of Islam having control over others.

The genuine Muslims against this are the secularists, like most Albanians, liberal Turks in the western Turkish cities and most Muslims in Tatarstan, Russian federation, etc

Proof from reputable news sources please. And by reputable, I don’t mean on-line right-wing sources.

 

[All Englands Skies]

There is, sadly, enough blame to go around.

Why do you and some others in this thread seem to need to blame anyone? Why can’t we all just agree to pray for an end to all religious violence?

We can pray for religious peace and should do so and pray for all people, Christians, Muslims and others.

But it doesn't mean we have to repeat the mantra that Islam is a religion of peace and we should be A-ok with its teachings. At its core its an anti-Christian message and its the work of a clear cut false prophet.

 

[Archivist]

We can pray for religious peace and should do so and pray for all people, Christians, Muslims and others.

But it doesn't mean we have to repeat the mantra that Islam is a religion of peace and we should be A-ok with its teachings. At its core its an anti-Christian message and its the work of a clear cut false prophet.

I’ve never said that anyone has to repeat any “mantra of Islam.” There is no such mantra among the vast majority of Muslims. I used to date a Muslim girl, and still remain friends with she and her family. I can assure you that they had no such feelings.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Proof from reputable news sources please. And by reputable, I don’t mean on-line right-wing sources.

You read from sources and make up your own mind.

Polls mean nothing, there was a mainstream poll here by Trevor Phillips, "what muslims really think" , but I am struggling now to find simplified results.

The poll since then has been regarded as "skewed" as its message contradicts and puts Islam in an unfavourable light, you'll do that with any evidence that makes Islam look bad, because it contradicts the liberal mantra that has a strangle hold on what people are allowed to think.

polls aren't evidence, for a start you've ruled out "right wing sources" and anybody who publishes stuff that makes Islam look bad will get ruled out as "right wing".

So your little "proof-test" is rhetoric and loaded from the start.

Let me guess, its okay to use left wing sources to gather pro-islam info???

 

[All Englands Skies]

I’ve never said that anyone has to repeat any “mantra of Islam.” There is no such mantra among the vast majority of Muslims. I used to date a Muslim girl, and still remain friends with she and her family. I can assure you that they had no such feelings.

A Muslim girl dating a non-Muslim man is hardly a strict adherence to Islam.

My mother, who is Kosovan Albanian is not a proper believer in Islam.

A Turkish girl I used to know, who drank alcohol and was open to having a "Christian" boyfriend was not adhering to Islam.

A person who wants strict sharia law and Islam controlling every aspect of their life and our life (even though we are not Muslim) is adhering to Islam.

 

[Archivist]

You read from sources and make up your own mind.

Polls mean nothing, there was a mainstream poll here by Trevor Phillips, "what muslims really think" , but I am struggling now to find simplified results.

The poll since then has been regarded as "skewed" as its message contradicts and puts Islam in an unfavourable light, you'll do that with any evidence that makes Islam look bad, because it contradicts the liberal mantra that has a strangle hold on what people are allowed to think.

polls aren't evidence, for a start you've ruled out "right wing sources" and anybody who publishes stuff that makes Islam look bad will get ruled out as "right wing".

So your little "proof-test" is rhetoric and loaded from the start.

Let me guess, its okay to use left wing sources to gather pro-islam info???

Except I said “on-line right-wing sources.” I am speaking about the various online sites that are slightly to the right of Mussolini. There are many reputable Conservative newspapers out there, like the Wall Street Journal.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Proof from reputable news sources please. And by reputable, I don’t mean on-line right-wing sources.

Heres a link to that Survey, that Trevor Phillips had on the channel 4 documentary "What British muslims really think"

ICM Unlimited | ICM Muslims survey for Channel 4

the PDF links the full research.

It was supposed to a pretty indepth survey, but as it showed Muslim views unfavourably, left wing sources bashed it, however those same lefties use sources far less comprehensive to prove Islam is wonderful.

I myself, hate using polls as proof, lets face it, polls are test cases, not everybody in the world is including in a poll, so they mean nothing, their loaded to the agenda of those who commission the poll.

 

[Archivist]

A Muslim girl dating a non-Muslim man is hardly a strict adherence to Islam.

My mother, who is Kosovan Albanian is not a proper believer in Islam.

A Turkish girl I used to know, who drank alcohol and was open to having a "Christian" boyfriend was not adhering to Islam.

A person who wants strict sharia law and Islam controlling every aspect of their life and our life (even though we are not Muslim) is adhering to Islam.

Except, again, the extremest views held by some Muslims are not held by Muslims as a whole. I saw the Muslim community in Pittsburgh come to the aid of the Jewish community after the Tree of Life shooting, and the Jewish community reciprocated after the New Zealand shootings.

You have said that you will be praying for an end to all religious violence, so at least we are together on that point. Probably no point in continuing this discussion.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Except, again, the extremest views held by some Muslims are not held by Muslims as a whole. I saw the Muslim community in Pittsburgh come to the aid of the Jewish community after the Tree of Life shooting, and the ajrwish community reciprocated after the New Zealand shootings.

You have said that you will be praying for an end to all religious violence, so at least we are together on that point. Probably no point in continuing this discussion.

Well I can agree with praying for an end to violence, because violence is wrong against all humans.

disagreeing with Islam even strongly does not mean harming them and does not mean denying them freedom and rights, it doesn't mean entertaining childish notions of "sending all muslims back" and closing nations off to muslims, if a muslim is escaping war and persecution, we have a duty to help them, that transcends theological and political disagreements.

 

[The Barbarian]

ISIS is an embarrassment to them, as it undermines Islamic PR machine.

In the sense that "Christian" groups using terror and violence are an embarrassment for us.

However amongst practising Muslims, they'll condemn ISIS in one breath, but then in the next they'll be saying Islamist ideology and supremacist things

Haven't seen that. But then, I mostly know them from work, or the neighborhood, or soccer.

Most of them nations you list, while condemning ISIS, make their societies pro-Islam and treat non-Muslims as second place to Muslims, Islam is in a privileged legal position over others and the movement to change that is outnumbered by movements wanting to keep or increase Islams control

Sort of like the guys who want public schools to chant Christian prayers, and put the Ten Commandments up in public buildings. On the other hand, American Muslims don't advocate that kind of thing.

You make the misconception that the only form of Islamists are ISIS,

I don't think anyone here said anything like that. I know I didn't. But I think this illustrates one of the problems. Too much projection, not enough listening.

The genuine Muslims against this are the secularists, like most Albanians, liberal Turks in the western Turkish cities and most Muslims in Tatarstan, Russian federation, etc

No, not at least as far as American Muslims are concerned. They are almost as religious as other Americans, and overwhelmingly reject the idea of a theocracy.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

That's a bit of a stretch.

Had this happened next Sunday, they would probably only be referred to as only worshipers. That term has been used to describe people attending church for as long as I can remember. It's common sense that Easter worshipers means Christians. Just because the word Christian wasn't used to describe the victims killed in a church doesn't mean there is some kind of PC movement to stop using the word Christian.

If you do a google search of church attacks in the past, you will find many examples of where the term worshipers were used instead of Christians.

Here are a couple:

Men Attack Worshipers at St. Lucia Cathedral, Killing One (2001)

''The attack this morning on worshipers in Islamabad was a cowardly act that took the lives of five innocent people and injured many more while they were worshiping,'' -- Wendy J. Chamberlin United States Ambassador to Pakistan (2002)

Had these incidents occurred on Easter Sunday, they would have likely been called Easter worshipers. This is nothing new.

My only referrant with regards to Obama and Clinton is that they have no problem mentioning Mosques or Muslims being targeted but their language changes suddenly when describing attacks on Christians.

This reeks of a political bias which doesn't want to overtly recognize Christians can be the victims of violent attacks like Muslims or other minorities can. Hilary Clinton exemplifies this when she says that this attack happened during a time sacred to many faiths. By many faiths does she mean two? What would be wrong in saying in the context of an attack on Christians that Easter is particularly sacred to Catholics? Especially since they were the victims?

Sorry, but there's a clear political calculation in their tweets about what they are saying.

 

[mindlight]

There is, sadly, enough blame to go around.

Why do you and some others in this thread seem to need to blame anyone? Why can’t we all just agree to pray for an end to all religious violence?

There is no blame to be attached to the Sri Lanka believers who were massacred by Muslims.

I will pray for an end to Muslim violence as this year there is 0 distinctively Christian terrorism going on. All the big incidents are by Muslims and smaller incidents by so called "Christian" groups are not for distinctively Christian reasons or resulted in no casualties. There is therefore no equivalence between Christians and Muslims on this score.

 

[The Barbarian]

My only referrant with regards to Obama and Clinton is that they have no problem mentioning Mosques or Muslims being targeted but their language changes suddenly when describing attacks on Christians.

I strongly condemn the separate and outrageous terrorist bombing attacks in Egypt and Nigeria. The attack on a church in Alexandria, Egypt caused 21 reported deaths and dozens of injured from both the Christian and Muslim communities.

The perpetrators of this attack were clearly targeting Christian worshipers, and have no respect for human life and dignity. They must be brought to justice for this barbaric and heinous act. We are continuing to gather information regarding this terrible event, and are prepared to offer any necessary assistance to the Government of Egypt in responding to it.
President Obama, responding to the Palm Sunday bombings 2017

I'm pretty sure you didn't know about this and other occasions where Obama deplored violence against Christians. But you should have checked first. This reeks of a political bias which doesn't want to overtly recognize that attacks on Christians have been condemned.

 

[JosephZ]

But it doesn't mean we have to repeat the mantra that Islam is a religion of peace and we should be A-ok with its teachings.

I've asked this question before, but If Islam teaches violence, why are more than 99% of the more than 1.6 billion Muslims in the world non-violent and living in harmony with their neighbors?

While there has always been Islamic terrorism, Islamic extremism only accounted for roughly 10% of all terrorist incidents that took place between 1970 and 2010 worldwide. Why is Islamic terrorism only recently becoming the predominant type of terrorism in the world? Surely if Islam taught the way you believe it does, then widespread Islamic terrorism would have reared it's ugly head long before 2010.

ISIS is an embarrassment to them, as it undermines Islamic PR machine.

However amongst practising Muslims, they'll condemn ISIS in one breath, but then in the next they'll be saying Islamist ideology and supremacist things

This is nonsense.

Most of them nations you list, while condemning ISIS, make their societies pro-Islam and treat non-Muslims as second place to Muslims, Islam is in a privileged legal position over others and the movement to change that is outnumbered by movements wanting to keep or increase Islams control

You are confusing political governments whose leaders base their laws on local interpretations of the Qur'an and haddiths. These rules and laws vary from culture to culture and often contradict what Islam teaches.

The genuine Muslims against this are the secularists, like most Albanians, liberal Turks in the western Turkish cities and most Muslims in Tatarstan, Russian federation, etc

You will find most devout Muslims against this as well.

A person who wants strict sharia law and Islam controlling every aspect of their life and our life (even though we are not Muslim) is adhering to Islam.

What does the term Shari'ah Law mean to you? You will be hard pressed to find a Muslim anywhere in the world who wants Shari'ah to apply to non-Muslims. This is what many militant extremists want, but they make up less than 1% of the world's Muslims.

 

[JosephZ]

I will pray for an end to Muslim violence as this year there is 0 distinctively Christian terrorism going on. All the big incidents are by Muslims and smaller incidents by so called "Christian" groups are not for distinctively Christian reasons or resulted in no casualties.

Once again, the terrorist groups I mentioned earlier like the LRA, Anti-Balaka Militias, NLFT, and NSCN are still active today.

Maronite Christian militias would be one of the few groups I might directly endorse and recognise as Christian albeit not perfect given the lawless context in which they operate. They have to do with protecting their people more than terror though. The rest have nothing to do with Christianity

While you may say the LRA, Anti-Balaka Militias, NLFT, and NSCN have nothing to do with Christianity, the evidence shows otherwise:

Anti-Balaka Militias

After the Muslims were baptised into the Apostolic Church in a ceremony attended by the village headman, they “had to show the anti-balaka [their] baptismal cards to not be killed,”

“We had no choice but to join the Catholic Church,” the oldest brother told Amnesty International. “The anti-balaka swore they’d kill us if we didn’t.” Another brother said that the family members have to attend church services every Sunday. “We have to confirm that we’re really Catholic,” he explained.

“The anti-balaka told us to go to church,” recalled Abdoulaye A. “‘If you don’t want to, we’ll kill you,’ they told us.”

“If you refuse to be baptised you have to pay a fine,” said Hassan I., age 61, who lived in Balego until recently

“It is effectively illegal for us to pray,” said Abdou Y., in Mbaiki. “We have to hide, do it quickly, and do it by ourselves. Collective Friday prayers are impossible.”

Besides massacres, sectarian killings, and wholesale ethnic cleansing, one of the clearest signs of the intensity of sectarian animus was the destruction of the country’s mosques. In town after town, village after village, mosques were looted, vandalized, damaged or destroyed in early 2014, at the same time that the Muslim population was driven out. Some have estimated that more than 400 mosques were destroyed.

The NLFT

The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura. They have been accused of funding terrorism and forcing local tribals to convert to Christianity at gunpoint.

The government in India's north-eastern state of Tripura says it has evidence that the state's Baptist Church is involved in backing separatist rebels.

The NSCN

Equally disturbing is the NSCN faction’s dubious claim of being the torch bearers of Christ’s gospel. Isak Chishi Swu the NSCN-IM chairman has on records said that Nagalim will send out 10,000 missionaries around the world when it achieves independence. “Our intention is that Nagalim is for Christ. We have proclaimed it. Nagalim is for Christ. God has got his plan for Nagalim,” he said. “We were evangelized by the American Baptist missionaries back in 1839, and we don’t have the adequate words to thank the American missionaries.”

There have been reports from North east region that the Naga insurgents have used threats and intimidation in areas where they operate all the name of Lord Jesus Christ...


And finally, the LRA, which has killed and maimed as many people as ISIS, claimed it was fighting for the establishment of the rule of the Ten Commandments in a theocratic Uganda. Their activities covered a large swath of Africa committing atrocities in not only Uganda, but also South Sudan, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Central African Republic.

"The LRA is fighting in the name of God. God is the one helping us in the bush. That’s why we created this name, Lord’s Resistance Army. And people always ask us, are we fighting for the Biblical Ten Commandments of God. That is true because the Ten Commandments of God is the constitution that God has given to the people of the world. All people. If you go to the constitution, nobody will accept people who steal, nobody could accept to go and take somebody’s wife, nobody could accept to innocently kill, or whatever. The Ten Commandments carries all this.” -- Vincent Otti, LRA Commander

These type of terrorist groups are only considered to be Christians when it's convenient I guess.

You never heard of Lord's Resistance Army? Well, proves my contention, most Americans have never heard of it, and here we are at war with them. The Lord's Resistance Army are Christians... They are fighting the Muslims in Sudan. And Obama has sent troops, United States troops to remove them from the battlefield, which means kill them.... So that's a new war, a hundred troops to wipe out Christians..." -- Rush Limbaugh, October 14, 2011

There have also been lone wolf attacks by Christian terrorists this year, and Christians are members of terrorist organizations that carry out atrocities against innocent people which by definition makes them a Christian terrorist.

The groups I mentioned above are no different than ISIS and its affiliates, and if these were groups with even a hint of Islamic backgrounds, I'm pretty sure you would consider them to be Islamic terrorist groups.

If you say these groups do not represent the teachings of Christ and are therefore not Christian, then you have to also apply this same method of judgment to Islamic terrorist groups since the vast majority of Muslims in the world do not adhere to or support the ideology of extremist.

Just because Islamic extremists and anti-Islamic propagandists say Islam teaches violence, doesn't make that true. If it were true, then you wouldn't see more than 99% of the Muslims in the world living in peace and harmony with their neighbors.

I'm in no way defending Islam. I will state again that it is a false religion and Muhammad was a false prophet. I'm just trying to dispel the misinformation and falsehoods being spread by extremists and anti-Islamic propagandists. They both thrive on conflict, and people falling for their narrative is what has led to so much division and conflict between the two faiths in recent years.

The recent attacks in New Zealand and Sri Lanka were attempts to cause even further discord, and we can't allow ourselves to fall into the traps being laid by these extremists.

 

[Archivist]

There is no blame to be attached to the Sri Lanka believers who were massacred by Muslims.

A little common sense here, why would I be blaming the victims? They were innocent as were the Muslims murdered in New Zealand and the Jews murdered in Pittsburgh. I’m speaking of religious groups. Religious violence has been and continues to be committed by Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists and Christians. You may deny the latter; you would be wrong.

I will pray for an end to Muslim violence as this year there is 0 distinctively Christian terrorism going on. All the big incidents are by Muslims and smaller incidents by so called "Christian" groups are not for distinctively Christian reasons or resulted in no casualties. There is therefore no equivalence between Christians and Muslims on this score.

So you aren’t going to pray for the victims of Hindu, Buddhist and Jewish religious violence, just that of Muslims?

Why can’t you just ask God to put and end to ALL religious violence! Why is that so hard for you?

 

[kcnalp]

Can we all just pray for an end to religious violence?

Ain't gonna happen until the Prince of peace returns.

 

[Archivist]

Ain't gonna happen until the Prince of peace returns.

Perhaps. Why not ask for it in prayer?

 

[FireDragon76]

Same reason most victims of Islamic terrorists are Muslim. Roof was a Lutheran, and on the rolls of a local Lutheran church, according to his pastor.

Roof was a disturbed kid, and alienated from church, even if he was on the rolls. His family tried to get him to go to church, but he wasn't interested. It's still tragic and I admit, shameful, but he wasn't exactly a "good Lutheran".