Sri Lanka Blasts 156 dead, over 500 injured in six explosions at Churches and Hotels

[The Barbarian]

The Christian body count is quite low this year ie 0 (List of terrorist incidents in 2019 - Wikipedia) Muslims are the ones who are killing people in all the major incidents this year.

Worldwide, Muslims are the most common victims of violence, often by others who profess to be Muslims.

In the United States, it's mostly white nationalists, most of whom profess to be Christian, but really have no more idea of what a Christian actually is than did Osama bin Laden.

The murderer in New Zealand was also not a Christian.

The white nationalist in New Zealand wrote, before his attack;
“Were/are you a supporter of Donald Trump?” Mr. Tarrant asked himself in the manifesto. “As a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose? Sure. As a policy maker and leader? Dear god no.”

So far as I can find, that's the only comment about God in his manifesto. So obviously fully vested in the white supremacy movement, but likely no more than culturally Christian. Like Trump.

I agree that those people in Sri Lanka were martyrs. If one has to die, what is better than to go than celebrating the victory of Christ over death?

 

[JosephZ]

The Christian body count is quite low this year ie 0 (List of terrorist incidents in 2019 - Wikipedia)

This isn't true. Christian terrorists have killed many people worldwide since the first of the year. I don't have the time to go through the entire database, but here are a few terrorist attacks I found carried out by terrorist groups from around the world whose members are primarily Christians.

• In the Colombian capital city of Bogotà, 20 people were killed and 68 others were injured. José Aldemar Rodríguez, aka Mocho Kiko (ELN) -- January 17, 2019
• A police officer was killed and eight injured due to two roadside bombs triggered by NPA members in Magpet. -- January 28, 2019
• Two policemen were killed and another injured in an attack on the border bridge with the Venezuelan border (ELN). -- February 18, 2019
• Five civilians and a soldier were killed by armed assailants in Goma city of North Kivu.Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda -- March 2, 2019
• A policeman was killed and another one was injured in an ambush attack in Motiong, Samar, by members of the New People's Army. -- March 11, 2019
• A soldier was killed and four others were injured in a bomb attack by ELN militants in the area of El Tarra. -- March 20, 2019
• LRA rebels shoot a member of the local security forces, killing him and injuring his driver, robbing and plundering civilians, and then abducting 8 civilians, including a mother and baby. -- March 22, 2019
• A 29 year old journalist was shot and killed during mass riots and fire bombings in the Creggan area of Derry in Northern Ireland (New IRA). -- April 18, 2019

The murderer in New Zealand was also not a Christian.

In the shooters manifesto, when he asked himself if he was a Christian answered with: "it's complicated." He also wrote the following: "To Christians the people worthy of glory, the people blessed by God Our Lord...moan and fall under the weight of these outrages and most shameful humiliations. The race of the elect suffers outrageous persecutions, and the impious race of the Saracens respects neither the virgins of the Lord nor the colleges of priests. They run over the weak and the elderly, they seize the children from their mothers so that they might forget, among the barbarians, the name of God. That perverse nation profanes the hospices ... The temple of the Lord is treated like a criminal and the ornaments of the sanctuary are robbed. What more shall I say to you?”

He considered God to be his Lord, so it sounds like he considered himself to be a Christian.

 

[mindlight]

Worldwide, Muslims are the most common victims of violence, often by others who profess to be Muslims.

Yes violence is endemic to the failed states dominated by Islam in much of The 20- 40 window. Indeed this is the history of Islam. It is a reason why so many are fleeing to the safety and freedom of Europe.

In the United States, it's mostly white nationalists, most of whom profess to be Christian, but really have no more idea of what a Christian actually is than did Osama bin Laden.
The white nationalist in New Zealand wrote, before his attack;
“Were/are you a supporter of Donald Trump?” Mr. Tarrant asked himself in the manifesto. “As a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose? Sure. As a policy maker and leader? Dear god no.”

So He mentioned God but carelessly misuses his name in doing so. He is not giving us any clear evidence of Gods grace or mercy in his life.

So far as I can find, that's the only comment about God in his manifesto. So obviously fully vested in the white supremacy movement, but likely no more than culturally Christian. Like Trump.

I agree that those people in Sri Lanka were martyrs. If one has to die, what is better than to go than celebrating the victory of Christ over death?

Actually martyrdom is a privilege and there were times in the history of the church when people aspired to it - Ignatius for example.

These guys die heroes untainted by whatever petty sins might have spoiled the message of their life. They have that perpetual status of martyrs like the apostles and many in the early church and noone can take that away from them. If someone is going to shoot me one day or blow me up then I would love for it to be for my faith rather than anything else.

I was reading about that Danish billionaire who lost 3 kids in the attacks. He must be devastated but I thought it was cool that a man so rich had 3 kids in church and these kids died the coolest way a Christian can for their faith and in the act of worship. It does not diminish the sense of loss but I think it adds a quality to it

 

[mindlight]

This isn't true. Christian terrorists have killed many people worldwide since the first of the year. I don't have the time to go through the entire database, but here are a few terrorist attacks I found carried out by terrorist groups from around the world whose members are primarily Christians.

• In the Colombian capital city of Bogotà, 20 people were killed and 68 others were injured. José Aldemar Rodríguez, aka Mocho Kiko (ELN) -- January 17, 2019
• A police officer was killed and eight injured due to two roadside bombs triggered by NPA members in Magpet. -- January 28, 2019
• Two policemen were killed and another injured in an attack on the border bridge with the Venezuelan border (ELN). -- February 18, 2019
• Five civilians and a soldier were killed by armed assailants in Goma city of North Kivu.Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda -- March 2, 2019
• A policeman was killed and another one was injured in an ambush attack in Motiong, Samar, by members of the New People's Army. -- March 11, 2019
• A soldier was killed and four others were injured in a bomb attack by ELN militants in the area of El Tarra. -- March 20, 2019
• LRA rebels shoot a member of the local security forces, killing him and injuring his driver, robbing and plundering civilians, and then abducting 8 civilians, including a mother and baby. -- March 22, 2019
• A 29 year old journalist was shot and killed during mass riots and fire bombings in the Creggan area of Derry in Northern Ireland (New IRA). -- April 18, 2019

Christians do of course commit murder and crimes. But in Sri Lanka we have a clear religious agenda and target for these murders by Muslims. The examples you share above are not for clearly religious reasons or agendas. Much of the violence in Africa for example is tribal, the IRA in Ireland have been disowned by the Catholic church and cannot claim a Christian mandate for anything they do or have done for that matter which is really more to do with a secular aspiration for freedom and Irish nationalism, violence in South America is also complicated by drugs and the residue of Marxist liberation agendas in a very unequal society. So in all your examples there is not a single one where you could really say x killed y cause x was a Christian.

In the shooters manifesto, when he asked himself if he was a Christian answered with: "it's complicated." He also wrote the following: "To Christians the people worthy of glory, the people blessed by God Our Lord...moan and fall under the weight of these outrages and most shameful humiliations. The race of the elect suffers outrageous persecutions, and the impious race of the Saracens respects neither the virgins of the Lord nor the colleges of priests. They run over the weak and the elderly, they seize the children from their mothers so that they might forget, among the barbarians, the name of God. That perverse nation profanes the hospices ... The temple of the Lord is treated like a criminal and the ornaments of the sanctuary are robbed. What more shall I say to you?”

He considered God to be his Lord, so it sounds like he considered himself to be a Christian.

He was quoting Pope Urban II in his call for the First Crusade. But while the Pope had a Christian rationale to that, having seen Christian lands conquered and overrun by Muslims and pilgrims to the Holy land harassed, this man did not have a Christian rationale. He just hated Muslims who were living peacefully in New Zealand and were a threat to noone. He did not have the authority of a pope to decide to perform a vigilante action against these people and he was not responding to any abuses by them. His agenda in his writings as a whole is a white surpemacist one and he is simply using papal words to try and boost his credentials.

 

[The Barbarian]

These guys die heroes untainted by whatever petty sins might have spoiled the message of their life. They have that perpetual status of martyrs like the apostles and many in the early church and noone can take that away from them. If someone is going to shoot me one day or blow me up then I would love for it to be for my faith rather than anything else.

I was reading about that Danish billionaire who lost 3 kids in the attacks. He must be devastated but I thought it was cool that a man so rich had 3 kids in church and these kids died the coolest way a Christian can for their faith and in the act of worship. It does not diminish the sense of loss but I think it adds a quality to it

Well said. A parent shouldn't have to bury his children; that's a horror no one should experience. But it's surely a comfort to him to know that they died celebrating Christ's resurrection and His final defeat of death.

 

[The Barbarian]

So He mentioned God but carelessly misuses his name in doing so. He is not giving us any clear evidence of Gods grace or mercy in his life.

See the post just above. I was unaware that he wrote about God being Lord. He seems to be culturally Christian, but never really got the message Jesus gave to us.

But then, I notice that many Islamic clerics say the same thing about terrorists who claim to be Muslims.

 

[mindlight]

See the post just above. I was unaware that he wrote about God being Lord. He seems to be culturally Christian, but never really got the message Jesus gave to us.

But then, I notice that many Islamic clerics say the same thing about terrorists who claim to be Muslims.

He wrote down a quote by pope Urban II justifying the first crusade against Muslims. Is that really an affirmation of God as Lord - cause these were not his words.

 

[Archivist]

The fact is that there is enough blame to go around, and no one group—Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc.—is completely innocent. Again, we should all be praying for an end to religious violence.

 

[The Barbarian]

He wrote down a quote by pope Urban II justifying the first crusade against Muslims. Is that really an affirmation of God as Lord - cause these were not his words.

He seems to have confused the war conducted by the Seljuk Turks against Christians with the peaceful behavior of Muslims in New Zealand.

 

[All Englands Skies]

He wrote down a quote by pope Urban II justifying the first crusade against Muslims. Is that really an affirmation of God as Lord - cause these were not his words.

Its called "clutching at straws"

Some people, almost predictable, have to overplay the "Christian" angle, to serve their agenda to somehow vindicate Islam by over-exaggerating Christian influence in violence.

Hence the list "Christian terrorists" that have nothing to do with Christianity and the attempt to make a paraphrased quote of Pope Urban into the NZ shooters statement of faith, when his manifesto was a mish-mash and the "Christian imagery/Crusader" he used was in the context of white nationalist, "defender of Europe", while his only statement on faith was "complicated" and inconclusive.

Its almost laughable, the amount of Christians who consistently attempt to throw Christianity under the bus to defend Islam as their cause celebre.

 

[The Barbarian]

Obviously, a cultural Christian, with very little understanding of the things Jesus told us to do.

Pretty much the same as ISIS, WRT to Islam.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Obviously, a cultural Christian, with very little understanding of the things Jesus told us to do.

Pretty much the same as ISIS, WRT to Islam.

Sorry, but ISIS isn't just a bunch of "cultural" muslims with a loose belief, I mean some of them are converts, hardly a "cultural" link if they converted from a non-muslim background, their faith is fanatical version of Islam, they want a Caliphate and theocracy and their entire world view is Islam, even if its argued a misguided version (which in my opinion it isn't, their (false)prophet pretty much did a lot of what they do), their relationship to Islam is totally different from the relationship of the NZ and Norway's anders breivik shooters to Christianity, in which they were non-practising and just using "Crusader" imagry in their overall hardline nationalistic, defender of Europeans attitudes.

this is what I mean, its like to make the world make sense, they have to be made the same, when their not, Islam is the focus point of Islamic terrorism (its in the name), while in right wing terrorism, Christianity is an after thought and an add-on, used only for its imagry of defending European/"white" culture, I mean the NZ shooter praised Dylan Roof in his manifesto, a white nationalist who shot black church goers, why would a professing Christian praise somebody killing fellow belivers just because they're black?

 

[The Barbarian]

Sorry, but ISIS isn't just a bunch of "cultural" muslims with a loose belief, I mean some of them are converts, hardly a "cultural" link if they converted from a non-muslim background, their faith is fanatical version of Islam, they want a Caliphate and theocracy and their entire world view is Islam, even if its argued a misguided version (which in my opinion it isn't, their (false)prophet pretty much did a lot of what they do), their relationship to Islam is totally different from the relationship of the NZ and Norway's anders breivik shooters to Christianity, in which they were non-practising and just using "Crusader" imagry in their overall hardline nationalistic, defender of Europeans attitudes.

Which is pretty much what most Muslim scholars are saying about ISIS.

Christianity is an after thought and an add-on, used only for its imagry of defending European/"white" culture,

Which is what ISIS is. For example, there is nothing in Islam that says a woman must cover her face, or even her hair. It's cultural; most of the world's Muslims don't follow that practice.

I mean the NZ shooter praised Dylan Roof in his manifesto, a white nationalist who shot black church goers, why would a professing Christian praise somebody killing fellow belivers just because they're black?

Same reason most victims of Islamic terrorists are Muslim. Roof was a Lutheran, and on the rolls of a local Lutheran church, according to his pastor.

 

[mindlight]

The fact is that there is enough blame to go around, and no one group—Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc.—is completely innocent. Again, we should all be praying for an end to religious violence.

This secular sentiment just reminds me of a comedy I watched in which the contestants in a beauty contest give their character speech. One contestant gave an in depth analysis of the roots of global issues and then realising she had lost her audience switched to the standard , I just pray for world peace - think about the children cliche which got her clapped. Fact is that just seeking to avoid conflict is not the answer when it comes to certain forms of Islam. Also it is Islamic terrorist groups that are killing people right now far more than with any other religion and especially with Christians

 

[mindlight]

Which is pretty much what most Muslim scholars are saying about ISIS.



Which is what ISIS is. For example, there is nothing in Islam that says a woman must cover her face, or even her hair. It's cultural; most of the world's Muslims don't follow that practice.



Same reason most victims of Islamic terrorists are Muslim. Roof was a Lutheran, and on the rolls of a local Lutheran church, according to his pastor.

It is not just ISIS. Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Hezbollah.... the list is long and ever changing. Islamic history whether in the days of initial expansion, Mughal rule in India or under the Ottomans is similarly decorated with stories of war and genocide. Violence is built into the core texts of Mohammed grown strong in Medina and jihad is portrayed there as actual war rather than spiritual struggle

 

[The Barbarian]

Perhaps, we should focus on our own faults. If everyone did that, I think God would approve.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Which is pretty much what most Muslim scholars are saying about ISIS.

Muslim scholars are mainly protecting Islams image, they will focus on the few points they think ISIS has it wrong, but in a lot of cases, ISIS quote more Islamic text that justify what they're doing, they actually have more quranic backing than the mainstream muslim Imams acting as PR for Islam.

Which is what ISIS is. For example, there is nothing in Islam that says a woman must cover her face, or even her hair. It's cultural; most of the world's Muslims don't follow that practice.

So, doesn't change the fact Islam and sharia law is supremacist, even if some people argue on superficial points, like I said, muhammed himself was the one who used war and conquest in the beginning to further Islam, it was than built upon by his immediate followers.

Same reason most victims of Islamic terrorists are Muslim. Roof was a Lutheran, and on the rolls of a local Lutheran church, according to his pastor.

Dylann roof shot them for being black, not because of Christianity, its irrelevant what his Pastor said. ISIS kills fellow Muslims as collateral, due to saying they follow a different branch or those they deem to secular, basically, anybody they feel is trying to put a stop too them creating an Islamic theocracy.

Again, this is what I mean, the arguments that attempt to portray Christianity and Islam on a equal footing are very weak, yet still they're used.

 

[JosephZ]

So in all your examples there is not a single one where you could really say x killed y cause x was a Christian.... The examples you share above are not for clearly religious reasons or agendas.

I wasn't trying to imply that they were, I was replying to this comment.

The Christian body count is quite low this year ie 0 (List of terrorist incidents in 2019 - Wikipedia) Muslims are the ones who are killing people in all the major incidents this year.

The statement you made is untrue. While the ideology and the purposes behind the examples of the attacks I gave varied, they are examples of Christians willing to carry out atrocities against innocent people.

If you need examples of Christian terrorism, the most notorious would be The Lord's Resistance Army which was trying to establish a Christian state based on the Ten Commandments in Central Africa. It still exists today (One of the examples I gave was from this group) and has killed and maimed as many people as ISIS has during it's history.

There are several other examples of Christian terror groups. The Ilaga here in The Philippines, Anti-Balaka in the CAR, the NLFT and the NSCN in India (They get funding from the Baptist Church), and the Maronite Christian Militias that were found in Lebanon. There are also Christian militias and groups in the US that carry out acts of terrorism.

But in Sri Lanka we have a clear religious agenda and target for these murders by Muslims.

Are you sure about that? Terror groups often hide behind the religious veil while their goals and agenda's vary. ISIS for example claims it wants to establish a caliphate, but many of the groups worldwide that have aligned themselves with ISIS could care less about this. Many only swear allegiance to ISIS to boost their credibility and instill further fear in the region they operate in to push their own agendas which may be drug trafficking, extortion, clan wars, etc... Money, greed, and personal gain are the driving forces behind many terror groups.

While the leaders of these groups may be highly educated in Islam, the Qur'an, and hadiths, most of the rank and file members are ignorant of these things. They don't join these groups for religious reasons, they join primarily because of personal grievances, a feeling of belonging, or for financial gain. This is why you see many non-Muslims and even Christians joining ISIS in countries that face extreme poverty. Joining ISIS can ensure insure a member of a steady income for themselves and their families.

Here in the Mindanao for example, the average income for a family of 5 is less than $200 per month; for many it's less than $60 per month, especially in the Muslim Majority provinces. ISIS affiliated recruiters are offering people $600 per month and in some cases more to join their ranks. They are also offering to pay for the education of children within a person's household. Those incentives are hard to turn down for someone who has lived in poverty their entire lives, and especially for those who also hold grievances against the government.

Much of the violence in Africa for example is tribal, the IRA in Ireland have been disowned by the Catholic church and cannot claim a Christian mandate for anything they do or have done for that matter which is really more to do with a secular aspiration for freedom and Irish nationalism, violence in South America is also complicated by drugs and the residue of Marxist liberation agendas in a very unequal society.

Everything you said here would also apply to Islamic terrorism.

He was quoting Pope Urban II in his call for the First Crusade... His agenda in his writings as a whole is a white surpemacist one and he is simply using papal words to try and boost his credentials.

Yes, he used a quote that resonates with him and his ideology. This would lead us to believe that he would identify himself as a Christian.

 

[JosephZ]

the arguments that attempt to portray Christianity and Islam on a equal footing are very weak, yet still they're used.

Is there really much difference between the two?

Countless millions have been killed in the name of Christianity in modern history; Christian Europe has seen more conflict and bloodshed than the Middle East; Christianity was often introduced by the sword in North and South America, the Caribbean, Africa, the Pacific Islands and Southeast Asia (Manifest Destiny, Spanish Inquisitions, Christian explorers trying to establish new territories and Christianize the natives). There have been Genocides, massacres, enslavement, rape and pillaging done in the name of Christianity up until today.

 

[The Barbarian]

Muslim scholars are mainly protecting Islams image, they will focus on the few points they think ISIS has it wrong, but in a lot of cases, ISIS quote more Islamic text that justify what they're doing, they actually have more quranic backing than the mainstream muslim Imams acting as PR for Islam.

I recall that segregationists in the United States quoted more Bible verses that they argued were proof that God wanted white people over black people, than their opponents did. So that's not very impressive to anyone with a memory of history.

Dylann roof shot them for being black, not because of Christianity, its irrelevant what his Pastor said. ISIS kills fellow Muslims as collateral, due to saying they follow a different branch

Pretty much the way that for Roof, the fact that they were "different" was more important to him than that they were fellow Christians.

Again, this is what I mean, the arguments that attempt to portray Islam as unique in these things are pretty weak.