Sri Lanka Blasts 156 dead, over 500 injured in six explosions at Churches and Hotels

[Archivist]

This secular sentiment just reminds me of a comedy I watched in which the contestants in a beauty contest give their character speech. One contestant gave an in depth analysis of the roots of global issues and then realising she had lost her audience switched to the standard , I just pray for world peace - think about the children cliche which got her clapped. Fact is that just seeking to avoid conflict is not the answer when it comes to certain forms of Islam. Also it is Islamic terrorist groups that are killing people right now far more than with any other religion and especially with Christians

No, what I wrote is truth. You can call it “secular sentiment;” you would be wrong. Blaming any one group doesn’t do any good. Instead of blaming certain groups why don’t we all just pray for an end to all religious violence?

 

[All Englands Skies]

Is there really much difference between the two?

Countless millions have been killed in the name of Christianity in modern history; Christian Europe has seen more conflict and bloodshed than the Middle East; Christianity was often introduced by the sword in North and South America, the Caribbean, Africa, the Pacific Islands and Southeast Asia (Manifest Destiny, Spanish Inquisitions, Christian explorers trying to establish new territories and Christianize the natives). There have been Genocides, massacres, enslavement, rape and pillaging done in the name of Christianity up until today.

In complete contrast to the teachings of Christ

However Islamic extremism is not in contrast to the teachings of muhammed, he did those things himself

SO there is a difference, no matter how you try to say otherwise.

Again, I cannot understand Christians who attempt to defend Islam to this degree, its clearly the teachings of a false prophet and has all the stains of false prophecy you'd expect.

 

[All Englands Skies]

I recall that segregationists in the United States quoted more Bible verses that they argued were proof that God wanted white people over black people, than their opponents did. So that's not very impressive to anyone with a memory of history.



Pretty much the way that for Roof, the fact that they were "different" was more important to him than that they were fellow Christians.

Again, this is what I mean, the arguments that attempt to portray Islam as unique in these things are pretty weak.

and again and again, when we get down to it, the final argument becomes the teachings of Jesus Vs Muhammed and in that realm, there is no room to say Islam and Christianity are the same.

 

[The Barbarian]

and again and again, when we get down to it, the final argument becomes the teachings of Jesus Vs Muhammed and in that realm, there is no room to say Islam and Christianity are the same.

Do you think Judiaism is the same as Samaritanism?

And yet Jesus told people to emulate a Samaritan who had charity for others, rather than a Levite who did not.

Samaritans are surely wrong about many things, as are Muslims. God cares more about what's in your heart, than about your theology.

 

[JosephZ]

In complete contrast to the teachings of Christ

Yes, I agree.

However Islamic extremism is not in contrast to the teachings of muhammed, he did those things himself

Extremism is in contrast to what Muhammad taught, that's why it's called extremism.

ex·trem·ism: the holding of extreme political or religious views; fanaticism.

Nearly all of the 1.6+ billion Muslims in the world today don't teach or believe the way extremists do. If Muhammad and Islam taught the way extremists and anti-Islamic propagandist in the west claim he did, then you would see mainstream Muslims acting out violently towards their non-Muslim neighbors in every corner of the globe. Since this isn't happening, we know that Islam doesn't teach Muslims to be hostile to non-believers or try to conquer the world with Islam by violent means.

You also have to remember that Muhammad's behavior and his actions in his day were not unique, it was the norm. Kings and rulers from all backgrounds and religions were doing exactly the same as him in the 7th century. Muslims know the difference between the historical content found in the Qur'an and hadiths and the teachings found in them that apply today. Extremists on the other hand, either can't, or choose not to differentiate between the two.

SO there is a difference, no matter how you try to say otherwise.

Anyone who is honest with themselves should be able to see the similarities. The history of both religions are filled with violent episodes and extremists using the scriptures of each to justify their actions.

I cannot understand Christians who attempt to defend Islam to this degree, its clearly the teachings of a false prophet and has all the stains of false prophecy you'd expect.

Yes, as I Christian I agree that Islam is a false religion brought into the world by a false prophet; but this is not what Muslims believe and we need to respect them and their way of believing.

While I don't speak for everyone, the reason I defend Muslims and their way of believing is because I feel ignorance of Islam by non-Muslims is at the root of many of the problems we are seeing in the world today. If more people would take the time to study the religion and reach out to Muslims, the world we live in would be a better place.

Terrorists want Muslims and Christians to be at odds with one another, it's one of their main objectives. We shouldn't give them what they want.

 

[mindlight]

Perhaps, we should focus on our own faults. If everyone did that, I think God would approve.

Just close our eyes and pretend Sri Lanka did not happen and so we do not notice the gunman or suicide bomber creeping up on us. I think Jesus meant a different thing when he talked about the need to take out the plank in your own eye before critiquing the speck in someone elses. This is not a matter of judgment it is a reality check for Christians as to the very real presence of evil in the world and a direct threat to the church. We cannot shut our eyes to this and simply pretend it is not happening. The authorities have a responsibility to act for the common good and Muslims going around murdering people is a clear call to action.

 

[Archivist]

Just close our eyes and pretend Sri Lanka did not happen and so we do not notice the gunman or suicide bomber creeping up on us. I think Jesus meant a different thing when he talked about the need to take out the plank in your own eye before critiquing the speck in someone elses. This is not a matter of judgment it is a reality check for Christians as to the very real presence of evil in the world and a direct threat to the church. We cannot shut our eyes to this and simply pretend it is not happening. The authorities have a responsibility to act for the common good and Muslims going around murdering people is a clear call to action.

If only Muslims were the only ones murdering people. Others are doing it as well including Christians. That is why we all need to pray for an end to religious killings.

 

[The Barbarian]

Just close our eyes and pretend Sri Lanka did not happen and so we do not notice the gunman or suicide bomber creeping up on us. I think Jesus meant a different thing when he talked about the need to take out the plank in your own eye before critiquing the speck in someone elses. This is not a matter of judgment it is a reality check for Christians as to the very real presence of evil in the world and a direct threat to the church. We cannot shut our eyes to this and simply pretend it is not happening. The authorities have a responsibility to act for the common good and Muslims going around murdering people is a clear call to action.

In Sri Lanka, you're probably right. In America, where the majority of terrorists are right wing/white supremacist, it's a foolish idea.

It's like putting a meteorite shield over your house, but failing to lock your doors when you leave.

 

[mindlight]

I wasn't trying to imply that they were, I was replying to this comment.


The statement you made is untrue. While the ideology and the purposes behind the examples of the attacks I gave varied, they are examples of Christians willing to carry out atrocities against innocent people.

Follow the link , on the Wikipedia article all the TERRORIST incidents of 2019 have been Muslim ones with no Christian incidents

If you need examples of Christian terrorism, the most notorious would be The Lord's Resistance Army which was trying to establish a Christian state based on the Ten Commandments in Central Africa. It still exists today (One of the examples I gave was from this group) and has killed and maimed as many people as ISIS has during it's history.

That is a personality cult not a Christian movement and only the ignorant have been roped into this David Koresh style cult. The people fighting this movement are often devout Christians though.

There are several other examples of Christian terror groups. The Ilaga here in The Philippines, Anti-Balaka in the CAR, the NLFT and the NSCN in India (They get funding from the Baptist Church), and the Maronite Christian Militias that were found in Lebanon. There are also Christian militias and groups in the US that carry out acts of terrorism.

Maronite Christian militias would be one of the few groups I might directly endorse and recognise as Christian albeit not perfect given the lawless context in which they operate. They have to do with protecting their people more than terror though. The rest have nothing to do with Christianity

Are you sure about that? Terror groups often hide behind the religious veil while their goals and agenda's vary. ISIS for example claims it wants to establish a caliphate, but many of the groups worldwide that have aligned themselves with ISIS could care less about this. Many only swear allegiance to ISIS to boost their credibility and instill further fear in the region they operate in to push their own agendas which may be drug trafficking, extortion, clan wars, etc... Money, greed, and personal gain are the driving forces behind many terror groups.

While the leaders of these groups may be highly educated in Islam, the Qur'an, and hadiths, most of the rank and file members are ignorant of these things. They don't join these groups for religious reasons, they join primarily because of personal grievances, a feeling of belonging, or for financial gain. This is why you see many non-Muslims and even Christians joining ISIS in countries that face extreme poverty. Joining ISIS can ensure insure a member of a steady income for themselves and their families.

Many of the fighters have been in the Islamic mix since as far back as the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. They just go from conflict to conflict following whoever is the latest force in the Islamic world To say that they are ignorant is a little too much. They have learnt all they need to know about what Islam is and what it is doing. I spoke with guys from the Raqqa area who fled as refugees from ISIS. The Quran is absolutely central to everything they do and a weird prophetic framework you cannot call them ignorant of their own religion , moderate Muslims are more often far more ignorant of what Mohammed is about. Indeed if most Muslims actually read the Quran and Haddith they may well become Christians. ISIS are Muslims and to suggest that they do not know their own faith is to do them a disservice.

Here in the Mindanao for example, the average income for a family of 5 is less than $200 per month; for many it's less than $60 per month, especially in the Muslim Majority provinces. ISIS affiliated recruiters are offering people $600 per month and in some cases more to join their ranks. They are also offering to pay for the education of children within a person's household. Those incentives are hard to turn down for someone who has lived in poverty their entire lives, and especially for those who also hold grievances against the government.


Everything you said here would also apply to Islamic terrorism.

Fine and we may agree addressing poverty may well be a way to resolve this attraction except Muslim terrorists keep blowing up the wells,and new houses and schools and workplaces in for example Afghanistan. Pay them $1 a day more to build stuff and ISIS may have a recruitment crisis, but so also squeeze every bank account they have and run down their sources of finance and you will also stop them recruiting. Sri Lanka gives the urgency to doing this.

Yes, he used a quote that resonates with him and his ideology. This would lead us to believe that he would identify himself as a Christian.

The guy is a white supremacist more tuned in to warlike Gamer quotes than any Christian realities. Not sure why you are so desperate to call him a Christian

 

[mindlight]

In Sri Lanka, you're probably right. In America, where the majority of terrorists are right wing/white supremacist, it's a foolish idea.

It's like putting a meteorite shield over your house, but failing to lock your doors when you leave.

I agree there is no justification for Christian terrorism in America

 

[JosephZ]

Follow the link , on the Wikipedia article all the TERRORIST incidents of 2019 have been Muslim ones with no Christian incidents

Are you sure about that? The list below only goes through January 31st and this doesn't include all non-Muslim terrorist incidents. I wasn't able to determine the perpetrators in some of them. I highlighted the terrorist groups whose members would be Christians in red.

• 19 civilians were killed and 8 others were wounded when suspected members of the National Salvation Front (NAS) launched an attack on the outskirts of Juba on Wednesday (National Salvation Front)(Christian led group)
• 5 people were left injured when an explosive device detonated at a bus stop in Santiago, Chile. An eco-terrorist group named Individualists Tending the Wild (Individualistas Tendientes a lo Salvaje) claimed responsibility for the bombing.
• ELN guerrillas attacked the Caño Limón–Coveñas pipeline in the village of Campo Giles, in the municipality of Tibú, in Norte de Santander.
• Maoists shot and killed a man suspecting of being a police informant. The Maoists also burnt five vehicles, including three tractors and a road roller in Phulbani area.
• A Cano Limon pipeline was bombed twice in Antioquia province, with ELN rebels suspected. An attempted ELN attack on the office of mayor of El Bordo was prevented.
• Gunmen set on fire some P30 million worth of two payloaders, a road roller, a transit mixer, a dump truck belonging to a construction firm in Kalamansig town. NPA
• Amidst uproar over the McJesus statue, the Haifa Museum of Art was firebombed twice between 10 January and 11 January. A protest by local Christians on the 11th became violent. (Christians in Israel)
• 9 soldiers were left wounded when an IED exploded during an encounter with New People's Army rebels, in San Jorge, Samar.
• Four people were injured in a bomb explosion in the Lohardaga District. The bomb had been placed by the Maoists to target police officers.
• Two villagers were shot and killed by Maoists in the Giridih district; it is said that the Maoists believed that the villagers were police informers.
• A policeman was shot dead by FARC dissidents in Corinto. The attack occurred as the policeman was performing surveillance duties.
• In the Colombian capital city of Bogotà, 20 people were killed and 68 others were injured when a car entered a police school compound. When it was stopped by guards at a checkpoint, the driver accelerated and hit a wall, and the car exploded. (ELN)
• An Indonesian soldier was killed in a shootout and ambush by insurgents in Papua's Puncak Jaya Regency. (Free Papua Movement)
• An oil pipeline belonging to Ecopetrol was bombed by a group of ELN members in Nariño Department.
• A car bomb exploded in the center of Derry, Northern Ireland. Nobody was hurt in the bombing and police is investigating Irish militants who may have carried out the attack. (New IRA)
• An oil pipeline belonging to Ecopetrol, was bombed in the area of Nariño in Colombia, Ecopetrol did not say who was responsible for the bombing, although the ELN group often does attacks oil and energy infrastructure in the area.
• A series of attacks by members of the LRA occurred in the province of Haut-Uele, in one attack three bikers came under an ambush leaving one of them seriously injured, their valuables were also taken away from them, in another attack, 15 people were kidnapped and had their valuables stolen away. According to a FARDC spokesman, tracking operations resulted in 5 dead of the LRA and several others injured in the area nearby.
• Armed Maoists damaged an iron ore slurry pipeline of Essar Steel with crowbars and hacksaw blades. Work in the plant had to be stopped after the incident.
• NPA rebels attacked a construction firm's offices in Barangay Maragondon of Real, Quezon. After taking the workers hostage, they burnt the site and some construction equipment along with trucks.
• Maoists killed 3 villagers and kidnapped 5 others in the Gadchiroli district. The Maoists suspected that those killed were police informers.
• A suspected police informant kidnapped by Maoists died after they beat him to death with sticks. His corpse was dumped in Gadchiroli.
• A police officer was killed and eight injured due to two roadside bombs triggered by NPA members in Magpet.
• Maoists burnt a bus and assaulted its driver and conductor. No passenger was hurt in the attack.
• A driver of a CRPF supply vehicle was injured due to arrows shot at the vehicle by Maoists.
• Suspected Maoists burnt a bus during observance of the "Maoist Week" in Sarivela village. No passenger was harmed.
• A suspected police informant abducted by the Maoists a week ago was found dead, making it the fifth killing by them in Bhamragad taluka in a week.
• A landmine was triggered by Maoists in Chatikona village of Rayagada district in front of a truck without any resulting casualties. A construction machine was also set ablaze in Kendughati of Kalahandi district.
• Two earth movers and four trucks were torched by Maoists in Potegaon area of Gadchiroli district. Another truck was torched in Bedgaon, Korchi tehsil.

That is a personality cult not a Christian movement and only the ignorant have been roped into this David Koresh style cult.

I agree it is a cultist organization, it was also known as the Lord's Salvation Army and The United Democratic Christian Force. If you are going to judge groups that claim to be Christian by this standard, then you also have to apply it to many of the Islamic terrorist groups as many practice folk Islam and others continue with their animistic traditions.

Maronite Christian militias would be one of the few groups I might directly endorse and recognise as Christian albeit not perfect given the lawless context in which they operate. They have to do with protecting their people more than terror though. The rest have nothing to do with Christianity

The Anti-Balaka in the CAR, the NLFT and the NSCN all have histories of forced conversions and killing people who refuse to convert to Christianity, so they need be included as well.

Many of the fighters have been in the Islamic mix since as far back as the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. They just go from conflict to conflict following whoever is the latest force in the Islamic world To say that they are ignorant is a little too much.

Here is what I said in my last post, "While the leaders of these groups may be highly educated in Islam, the Qur'an, and hadiths, most of the rank and file members are ignorant of these things."

Notice I didn't say "All" rank and file members. There are some that are well versed in the Qur'an, but they are the minority when it comes to the total membership in Islamic terrorist groups. They also pervert the true teachings of Islam and they in turn deceive less educated Muslims into believing that what they teach is true Islam.

ISIS are Muslims and to suggest that they do not know their own faith is to do them a disservice.

Remember earlier in the thread when I gave examples of how Christianity was spread by the sword in many parts of the world and all of the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity throughout history?

This is what you responded with: "In complete contrast to the teachings of Christ"

ISIS is a terrorist group that follows a perverted interpretation of Islam. Just as you responded by saying that Christian extremists acted in complete contrast to the teachings of Christ to the examples I gave earlier, almost every Muslim in the world will answer in a similar way, only they would say that the actions of ISIS are in complete contrast to the teachings of Muhammad and Islam.

The guy is a white supremacist more tuned in to warlike Gamer quotes than any Christian realities. Not sure why you are so desperate to call him a Christian

He may or may not be a Christian, but based on what I have read about him and his manifesto, I believe that he would identify himself as a Christian. In the end it really doesn't matter what you and I think, most of the unbelieving world are going to believe he was a Christian either way.

 

[Archivist]

I agree there is no justification for Christian terrorism in America

Or anyplace else for that matter!

 

[mindlight]

Are you sure about that? The list below only goes through January 31st and this doesn't include all non-Muslim terrorist incidents. I wasn't able to determine the perpetrators in some of them. I highlighted the terrorist groups whose members would be Christians in red.

• 19 civilians were killed and 8 others were wounded when suspected members of the National Salvation Front (NAS) launched an attack on the outskirts of Juba on Wednesday (National Salvation Front)(Christian led group)
• 5 people were left injured when an explosive device detonated at a bus stop in Santiago, Chile. An eco-terrorist group named Individualists Tending the Wild (Individualistas Tendientes a lo Salvaje) claimed responsibility for the bombing.
• ELN guerrillas attacked the Caño Limón–Coveñas pipeline in the village of Campo Giles, in the municipality of Tibú, in Norte de Santander.
• Maoists shot and killed a man suspecting of being a police informant. The Maoists also burnt five vehicles, including three tractors and a road roller in Phulbani area.
• A Cano Limon pipeline was bombed twice in Antioquia province, with ELN rebels suspected. An attempted ELN attack on the office of mayor of El Bordo was prevented.
• Gunmen set on fire some P30 million worth of two payloaders, a road roller, a transit mixer, a dump truck belonging to a construction firm in Kalamansig town. NPA
• Amidst uproar over the McJesus statue, the Haifa Museum of Art was firebombed twice between 10 January and 11 January. A protest by local Christians on the 11th became violent. (Christians in Israel)
• 9 soldiers were left wounded when an IED exploded during an encounter with New People's Army rebels, in San Jorge, Samar.
• Four people were injured in a bomb explosion in the Lohardaga District. The bomb had been placed by the Maoists to target police officers.
• Two villagers were shot and killed by Maoists in the Giridih district; it is said that the Maoists believed that the villagers were police informers.
• A policeman was shot dead by FARC dissidents in Corinto. The attack occurred as the policeman was performing surveillance duties.
• In the Colombian capital city of Bogotà, 20 people were killed and 68 others were injured when a car entered a police school compound. When it was stopped by guards at a checkpoint, the driver accelerated and hit a wall, and the car exploded. (ELN)
• An Indonesian soldier was killed in a shootout and ambush by insurgents in Papua's Puncak Jaya Regency. (Free Papua Movement)
• An oil pipeline belonging to Ecopetrol was bombed by a group of ELN members in Nariño Department.
• A car bomb exploded in the center of Derry, Northern Ireland. Nobody was hurt in the bombing and police is investigating Irish militants who may have carried out the attack. (New IRA)
• An oil pipeline belonging to Ecopetrol, was bombed in the area of Nariño in Colombia, Ecopetrol did not say who was responsible for the bombing, although the ELN group often does attacks oil and energy infrastructure in the area.
• A series of attacks by members of the LRA occurred in the province of Haut-Uele, in one attack three bikers came under an ambush leaving one of them seriously injured, their valuables were also taken away from them, in another attack, 15 people were kidnapped and had their valuables stolen away. According to a FARDC spokesman, tracking operations resulted in 5 dead of the LRA and several others injured in the area nearby.
• Armed Maoists damaged an iron ore slurry pipeline of Essar Steel with crowbars and hacksaw blades. Work in the plant had to be stopped after the incident.
• NPA rebels attacked a construction firm's offices in Barangay Maragondon of Real, Quezon. After taking the workers hostage, they burnt the site and some construction equipment along with trucks.
• Maoists killed 3 villagers and kidnapped 5 others in the Gadchiroli district. The Maoists suspected that those killed were police informers.
• A suspected police informant kidnapped by Maoists died after they beat him to death with sticks. His corpse was dumped in Gadchiroli.
• A police officer was killed and eight injured due to two roadside bombs triggered by NPA members in Magpet.
• Maoists burnt a bus and assaulted its driver and conductor. No passenger was hurt in the attack.
• A driver of a CRPF supply vehicle was injured due to arrows shot at the vehicle by Maoists.
• Suspected Maoists burnt a bus during observance of the "Maoist Week" in Sarivela village. No passenger was harmed.
• A suspected police informant abducted by the Maoists a week ago was found dead, making it the fifth killing by them in Bhamragad taluka in a week.
• A landmine was triggered by Maoists in Chatikona village of Rayagada district in front of a truck without any resulting casualties. A construction machine was also set ablaze in Kendughati of Kalahandi district.
• Two earth movers and four trucks were torched by Maoists in Potegaon area of Gadchiroli district. Another truck was torched in Bedgaon, Korchi tehsil.

I agree it is a cultist organization, it was also known as the Lord's Salvation Army and The United Democratic Christian Force. If you are going to judge groups that claim to be Christian by this standard, then you also have to apply it to many of the Islamic terrorist groups as many practice folk Islam and others continue with their animistic traditions.


The Anti-Balaka in the CAR, the NLFT and the NSCN all have histories of forced conversions and killing people who refuse to convert to Christianity, so they need be included as well.


Here is what I said in my last post, "While the leaders of these groups may be highly educated in Islam, the Qur'an, and hadiths, most of the rank and file members are ignorant of these things."

Notice I didn't say "All" rank and file members. There are some that are well versed in the Qur'an, but they are the minority when it comes to the total membership in Islamic terrorist groups. They also pervert the true teachings of Islam and they in turn deceive less educated Muslims into believing that what they teach is true Islam.


Remember earlier in the thread when I gave examples of how Christianity was spread by the sword in many parts of the world and all of the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity throughout history?

This is what you responded with: "In complete contrast to the teachings of Christ"

ISIS is a terrorist group that follows a perverted interpretation of Islam. Just as you responded by saying that Christian extremists acted in complete contrast to the teachings of Christ to the examples I gave earlier, almost every Muslim in the world will answer in a similar way, only they would say that the actions of ISIS are in complete contrast to the teachings of Muhammad and Islam.


He may or may not be a Christian, but based on what I have read about him and his manifesto, I believe that he would identify himself as a Christian. In the end it really doesn't matter what you and I think, most of the unbelieving world are going to believe he was a Christian either way.

We seem to be repeating ourselves. All the major terrorist incidents this year with deaths over 100 have been Muslim. None of those other incidents were for distinctively Christian reasons, drugs,marxism, tribalism etc maybe not true faith.

Violent murder is not what Christianity is about but clearly Islam is about that. I have met these guys and they know the koran better than those who critique them for not being true Muslims

Islam is the problem here not Christianity. People are dead in Sri Lanka at the hand of Muslims not Christians

 

[All Englands Skies]

Yes, I agree.


Extremism is in contrast to what Muhammad taught, that's why it's called extremism.

ex·trem·ism: the holding of extreme political or religious views; fanaticism.

Nearly all of the 1.6+ billion Muslims in the world today don't teach or believe the way extremists do. If Muhammad and Islam taught the way extremists and anti-Islamic propagandist in the west claim he did, then you would see mainstream Muslims acting out violently towards their non-Muslim neighbors in every corner of the globe. Since this isn't happening, we know that Islam doesn't teach Muslims to be hostile to non-believers or try to conquer the world with Islam by violent means.

You also have to remember that Muhammad's behavior and his actions in his day were not unique, it was the norm. Kings and rulers from all backgrounds and religions were doing exactly the same as him in the 7th century. Muslims know the difference between the historical content found in the Qur'an and hadiths and the teachings found in them that apply today. Extremists on the other hand, either can't, or choose not to differentiate between the two.


Anyone who is honest with themselves should be able to see the similarities. The history of both religions are filled with violent episodes and extremists using the scriptures of each to justify their actions.


Yes, as I Christian I agree that Islam is a false religion brought into the world by a false prophet; but this is not what Muslims believe and we need to respect them and their way of believing.

While I don't speak for everyone, the reason I defend Muslims and their way of believing is because I feel ignorance of Islam by non-Muslims is at the root of many of the problems we are seeing in the world today. If more people would take the time to study the religion and reach out to Muslims, the world we live in would be a better place.

Terrorists want Muslims and Christians to be at odds with one another, it's one of their main objectives. We shouldn't give them what they want.

There is no point making a long post here, muhammed was a warlord, pure and simple, islamists are not at odds with what he taught.

Many muslims just don't follow islam correctly + some are more passive than ISIS, but still want a Islamic supremacist society, just get it through conversion and civic means, others still are secular and have no bearing on Islamic teachings.

If loads of people started to declare they are National Socialists, but only a small section preached violence, would that suddenly make Hitler a man of peace?

Christians like you make lose some hope, vesting more time and energy into defending Islam, its false prophet and its scripture than you do defending your own faith (if you defend it at all) you've let too much secular humanism infiltrate your thoughts.

 

[JosephZ]

All the major terrorist incidents this year with deaths over 100 have been Muslim. None of those other incidents were for distinctively Christian reasons, drugs,marxism, tribalism etc maybe not true faith.

Here is the quote from you I was responding to:

Follow the link , on the Wikipedia article all the TERRORIST incidents of 2019 have been Muslim ones with no Christian incidents

Not only was this not true, you also keep moving the goal posts. Now it's terrorist incidents with over 100 deaths.

Violent murder is not what Christianity is about but clearly Islam is about that.

Then how can you explain why more than 99% of Muslims aren't involved in terrorism or violence towards others?

I have met these guys and they know the koran better than those who critique them for not being true Muslims

Met who? Islamic extremists or Muslims?

There is no point making a long post here, muhammed was a warlord, pure and simple, islamists are not at odds with what he taught.

If we look at Muhammad and his actions through a historical lens, while they appear bad by our modern perspective, they were normal for the point in history that he lived. In other words, he was no worse than anyone else who was in a position of leadership in his day whether they be Jew, Christian, Muslim, or Pagan.

Christians like you make lose some hope, vesting more time and energy into defending Islam, its false prophet and its scripture than you do defending your own faith (if you defend it at all)

You don't know me, so how would you know how I spend most of my time? I'm not defending Islam, and you are correct, it's a false religion brought into the world by a false prophet. Most of my time and energy is actually spent defending my faith and sharing it in a part of the world where it's desperately needed. In fact, most missionaries will not even go into the towns and villages I go into because they are afraid of the people that live there. They are also afraid of all the travel advisories put out by western governments like this one from the US.

Do Not Travel to: The Sulu Archipelago, including the southern Sulu Sea, due to crime, terrorism, civil unrest, and kidnapping.

The Sulu Archipelago and Sulu Sea – Level 4: Do Not Travel

Terrorist and armed groups continue to conduct kidnappings on land and at sea for ransom, bombings, and other attacks targeting U.S. citizens, foreigners, civilians, local government institutions, and security forces.

The U.S. government has limited ability to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens in the Sulu Archipelago and Sulu Sea as U.S. government employees must obtain special authorization to travel to those areas.

Here's a local article that just came out today: President Rodrigo Duterte has warned foreigners to stay out of Zamboanga over credible intelligence report that Islamic State (IS) and Abu Sayyaf terorists are targeting the southern Philippine city.

I'm not just another anonymous forum member, I don't hide my identity and when I post something I prefer people know who's saying it. It also holds me accountable for what I post online. My Facebook profile is also easy to find with a simple search. While I don't make very many of my posts public on FB, you will still be able to see where my travels take me on a regular basis.

One of the reasons I spend time on this forum trying to educate others about Islam and what Muslims believe, is so my brothers and sisters in Christ will not fear this religion and those who follow it. How can Christians share their faith with Muslims if they don't interact with them and have already prejudged them based on all of the misinformation being pushed by Islamic extremists and anti-Islamic propagandists?

I have been studying Islam since I was in the military in the mid 80's. I have taken many classes and courses on the subject, read the Qur'an from cover to cover and interact with Muslims everyday. I have witnessed both good and evil done in the name of Islam first hand. It's because of this that I can distinguish between true Islam that better than 99% of Muslims in the world follow and the perverted versions that Islamic extremists follow.

You say Christians like me make some lose hope, well, the people I share my faith with have no hope at all without Christ. If I cause a few Christians to lose hope because of what I post on an online forum, then their faith wasn't in Christ to begin with, it was in man. I'm not a missionary to Christians anyway, I'm a missionary to the dying world.

I'm sorry if this response was a but harsh, but when people question my faith and my defense of it, it sometimes rubs me the wrong way. Especially when it comes from within the body of Christ.

 

[The Barbarian]

Many muslims just don't follow islam correctly + some are more passive than ISIS, but still want a Islamic supremacist society, just get it through conversion and civic means, others still are secular and have no bearing on Islamic teachings.

Muslims argue the same thing about Christians. And round and round we go, in the circle of violence. That's not what Jesus taught us to do.

If loads of people started to declare they are National Socialists, but only a small section preached violence, would that suddenly make Hitler a man of peace?

It would merely mean that most National Socialists weren't violent. Just as most Muslims and most Christians are not.

Christians like you make lose some hope, vesting more time and energy into defending Islam, its false prophet and its scripture than you do defending your own faith (if you defend it at all) you've let too much secular humanism infiltrate your thoughts.

If Jesus thought it was O.K. to defend those who persecuted Him, maybe Christians and Muslim should do that as well.

Two Muslim organizations have raised nearly $200,000 to help victims and their families following the shooting massacre at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh on Saturday.

The online fund-raiser was part of a broad outpouring of assistance in response to the anti-Semitic attack, which killed 11 people and left six others injured, including blood drives, vigils and a separate crowdfunding campaign that has raised hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Tarek El-Messidi, a Chicago-based activist, said he learned of the synagogue shooting in a call Saturday morning from a friend who runs the Muslim fund-raising website LaunchGood. His friend asked Mr. El-Messidi if he could do something to help the victims, and he agreed.

Within two hours, he had created an online campaign with the backing of two Muslim groups, CelebrateMercy, where he is the founding director, and MPower Change. He set an initial goal of $25,000, which was promptly shattered as donations flooded in.
Muslim Groups Raise Thousands for Pittsburgh Synagogue Shooting Victims

And recently...

When a gunman killed 11 people at a synagogue in Pittsburgh last year, Muslim communities in the area raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for the victims. Now the Jewish community in Pittsburgh is reciprocating the kindness after a massacre at two mosques in New Zealand.

New Zealand is mourning after a gunman opened fire Friday at two mosques in the city of Christchurch, killing at least 50 people and injuring dozens. The nation's authorities said the terrorist attack was carried out by a man who posted a racist manifesto online.
After the mass shooting, the Jewish Federation of Greater Pittsburgh has set up a fund for the victims.
"Unfortunately we are all too familiar with the devastating effect a mass shooting has on a faith community," said Meryl Ainsman, chair of the board of the Jewish Federation of Greater Pittsburgh. "We are filled with grief over this senseless act of hate. May those who were injured heal quickly and fully, and may the memories of the victims forever be a blessing."
Just like after the October shooting at the Tree of Life Synagogue, different faiths and cultures have come together in grief and solidarity. Last year, the crowdfunding campaign "Muslims Unite for Pittsburgh Synagogue" raised more than $200,000 to help the shooting victims.
"We stand in solidarity with the Muslim community in Christchurch, in Pittsburgh, and around the world," the Jewish Federation said.
Jewish group reciprocates kindness to the Muslim community in New Zealand after massacre - CNN

Jesus approves. It's what He was telling us to do.

"We stand in solidarity with the Muslim community in Christchurch, in Pittsburgh, and around the world," the Jewish Federation said.

This is a crushing defeat for white supremacists; their anti-Jewish and anti-Muslim terror backfired spectacularly.

Oh, and our president?

Acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney defended President Donald Trump after critics denounced Trump's rhetoric after Friday's mass shootings at two mosques in New Zealand.
"The President is not a white supremacist," Mulvaney said on "Fox News Sunday." "I'm not sure how many times we have to say that."

Mulvaney was asked if the President would deliver a major speech condemning anti-Muslim bigotry and white supremacy.

"Well, I think you saw that yesterday in the tweet. The President—I'm not sure what more you want the President to do. You may say you want him to give a national speech to address the nation. That's fine, maybe we do that, maybe we don't," Mulvaney told Fox News.
Mick Mulvaney defends Trump in the wake of New Zealand attacks - CNNPolitics

What's disturbing, is when a president thinks he has to say "I'm not a crook." or "I'm not a white supremacist."

 

[All Englands Skies]

Here is the quote from you I was responding to:

Not only was this not true, you also keep moving the goal posts. Now it's terrorist incidents with over 100 deaths.


Then how can you explain why more than 99% of Muslims aren't involved in terrorism or violence towards others?


Met who? Islamic extremists or Muslims?


If we look at Muhammad and his actions through a historical lens, while they appear bad by our modern perspective, they were normal for the point in history that he lived. In other words, he was no worse than anyone else who was in a position of leadership in his day whether they be Jew, Christian, Muslim, or Pagan.


You don't know me, so how would you know how I spend most of my time? I'm not defending Islam, and you are correct, it's a false religion brought into the world by a false prophet. Most of my time and energy is actually spent defending my faith and sharing it in a part of the world where it's desperately needed. In fact, most missionaries will not even go into the towns and villages I go into because they are afraid of the people that live there. They are also afraid of all the travel advisories put out by western governments like this one from the US.

Do Not Travel to: The Sulu Archipelago, including the southern Sulu Sea, due to crime, terrorism, civil unrest, and kidnapping.

The Sulu Archipelago and Sulu Sea – Level 4: Do Not Travel

Terrorist and armed groups continue to conduct kidnappings on land and at sea for ransom, bombings, and other attacks targeting U.S. citizens, foreigners, civilians, local government institutions, and security forces.

The U.S. government has limited ability to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens in the Sulu Archipelago and Sulu Sea as U.S. government employees must obtain special authorization to travel to those areas.

Here's a local article that just came out today: President Rodrigo Duterte has warned foreigners to stay out of Zamboanga over credible intelligence report that Islamic State (IS) and Abu Sayyaf terorists are targeting the southern Philippine city.

I'm not just another anonymous forum member, I don't hide my identity and when I post something I prefer people know who's saying it. It also holds me accountable for what I post online. My Facebook profile is also easy to find with a simple search. While I don't make very many of my posts public on FB, you will still be able to see where my travels take me on a regular basis.

One of the reasons I spend time on this forum trying to educate others about Islam and what Muslims believe, is so my brothers and sisters in Christ will not fear this religion and those who follow it. How can Christians share their faith with Muslims if they don't interact with them and have already prejudged them based on all of the misinformation being pushed by Islamic extremists and anti-Islamic propagandists?

I have been studying Islam since I was in the military in the mid 80's. I have taken many classes and courses on the subject, read the Qur'an from cover to cover and interact with Muslims everyday. I have witnessed both good and evil done in the name of Islam first hand. It's because of this that I can distinguish between true Islam that better than 99% of Muslims in the world follow and the perverted versions that Islamic extremists follow.

You say Christians like me make some lose hope, well, the people I share my faith with have no hope at all without Christ. If I cause a few Christians to lose hope because of what I post on an online forum, then their faith wasn't in Christ to begin with, it was in man. I'm not a missionary to Christians anyway, I'm a missionary to the dying world.

I'm sorry if this response was a but harsh, but when people question my faith and my defense of it, it sometimes rubs me the wrong way. Especially when it comes from within the body of Christ.

another long winded attempt to defend and portray Islam's core teachings as better than the actually are, you've admitted muhammed was a warlord, but rationalising it by saying he was normal for the era, so you're admitting I am right about muhammed as you cannot deny what he did, but then trying to justify it.

The Bible warns us about false prophets and the fruit they bear and muhammed pretty much fits the criteria of "bad fruit"

Its irrelevant you know good muslims, I know "good" muslims, my mother is originally from Kosovo and while totally non-practising, will still say she is muslim if asked her religion. I myself served with the British Forces in Afghanistan, I worked with some good blokes, translators who said they were Muslim and growing up, I lived for a large time in a multi-ethnic area with many Muslims.

But none of this changes what Islam is and what it really teaches, at its core its a violent, war mongering supremacist movement, started by a false prophet and its main goal as an ideology is to defeat Christianity by any means it can, by force, by politics, by public pressure, by conversion, by demography, its in it to win it.

Also practising Muslims make it clear we're lesser than them and we're commiting "shirk" and we're kafirs and in the end times, they will defeat us, yet here many Christians are, defending their religion to the hilts, when if their religion got power, you're reward would be as a second class citizen. They really don't feel the need to accept and defend our faith, we're wrong, they're right, in the same way you defend theirs.

 

[The Barbarian]

Also practising Muslims make it clear we're lesser than them and we're commiting "shirk" and we're kafirs and in the end times, they will defeat us, yet here many Christians are, defending their religion to the hilts, when if their religion got power, you're reward would be as a second class citizen. They really don't feel the need to accept and defend our faith, we're wrong, they're right, in the same way you defend theirs.

That's a testable belief. Pew polled Muslims in foreign nations about Islamic extremists:

Pew found that American Muslims are more like Americans generally, than they are like Muslims in other nations. I don't know why that would be a surprise. As Ronald Reagan said, America is a shining city on a hill, in which people coming to the city become Americans.

 

[All Englands Skies]

We seem to be repeating ourselves. All the major terrorist incidents this year with deaths over 100 have been Muslim. None of those other incidents were for distinctively Christian reasons, drugs,marxism, tribalism etc maybe not true faith.

Violent murder is not what Christianity is about but clearly Islam is about that. I have met these guys and they know the koran better than those who critique them for not being true Muslims

Islam is the problem here not Christianity. People are dead in Sri Lanka at the hand of Muslims not Christians

its exhausting that the same points are made over and over.

They keep claiming what Islamists do is in contrast to muhammed and his teachings, when its not, muhammed did exactly the same stuff as the Islamists, so its not in contrast. Then they say "oh, but that was normal for the time", thus actually admitting he did bad things, but rationalising it.

They cant have it both ways, if muhammed did those things, but its rationalised as "it was normal for those times" they cannot then claim its in contrast to his teachings.

 

[Archivist]

We seem to be repeating ourselves. All the major terrorist incidents this year with deaths over 100 have been Muslim. None of those other incidents were for distinctively Christian reasons, drugs,marxism, tribalism etc maybe not true faith.

Violent murder is not what Christianity is about but clearly Islam is about that. I have met these guys and they know the koran better than those who critique them for not being true Muslims

Islam is the problem here not Christianity. People are dead in Sri Lanka at the hand of Muslims not Christians

There is, sadly, enough blame to go around.

Why do you and some others in this thread seem to need to blame anyone? Why can’t we all just agree to pray for an end to all religious violence?