Evolution is not really a theory

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

That's what I said, I am not debating free will, so provide me with someone who straightforwardly accepts free will to debate with. I cannot make argument with someone who is emotionally triggered whenever choice is referred to as a reality of physics.

You have been consistently talking about DNA and single celled organisms making choices, ergo having free will in a non-deterministic universe, therefore, you are arguing FOR free will. And yet not once have you shown anything to support your statements and claims.
THAT'S what people are trying to get from you: evidence to support your claims. Do you have any evidence to support your claims?

 

[AV1611VET]

I have a psychological condition that rejects metanonsense.

There's a cure for that:

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

[Speedwell]

That's what I said, I am not debating free will, so provide me with someone who straightforwardly accepts free will to debate with. I cannot make argument with someone who is emotionally triggered whenever choice is referred to as a reality of physics.

Quite a few of us do accept free will, but doubt the ability of molecules to contemplate alternatives and freely choose between them.

 

[HitchSlap]

There's a cure for that:

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

So this is how you justify accepting nonsense?

 

[AV1611VET]

So this is how you justify accepting nonsense?

It's how I treat patients who complain of "psychological conditions that reject metanonsense."

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's what I said, I am not debating free will, so provide me with someone who straightforwardly accepts free will to debate with. I cannot make argument with someone who is emotionally triggered whenever choice is referred to as a reality of physics.

That is not the way that it works. Let's work on some of the basics first. Human standards for the scientific method and the concept of evidence exist regardless of whether free will exists or not.

By the way, your total inability to defend the concept of free will makes all of your arguments appear to be very weak.

 

[HitchSlap]

It's how I treat patients who complain of "psychological conditions that reject metanonsense."

Now you consider yourself a psychologist capable of treating people who know how to weed out the bull-puckey? God moves in mysterious ways.

 

[Nando Ronteltap]

You have been consistently talking about DNA and single celled organisms making choices, ergo having free will in a non-deterministic universe, therefore, you are arguing FOR free will. And yet not once have you shown anything to support your statements and claims.
THAT'S what people are trying to get from you: evidence to support your claims. Do you have any evidence to support your claims?

Free will denial is a psychological condition and no amount of evidence can cure it.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Free will denial is a psychological condition and no amount of evidence can cure it.

Yup, you're going on ignore. It's like trying to get blood from a stone.

 

[HitchSlap]

Free will denial is a psychological condition and no amount of evidence can cure it.

Just like no amount of evidence will support your claim?

 

[Nando Ronteltap]

Quite a few of us do accept free will, but doubt the ability of molecules to contemplate alternatives and freely choose between them.

And do you actually accept free will as a reality of physics? That some physical object has alternative futures available any of which can be made the present?

 

[Speedwell]

And do you actually accept free will as a reality of physics? That some physical object has alternative futures available any of which can be made the present?

Yes, I am not a determinist. But I doubt that physical objects are able to contemplate those alternatives and freely choose amongst them--which is what free will is.

 

[AV1611VET]

Now you consider yourself a psychologist capable of treating people who know how to weed out the bull-puckey?

Wait until you see the bill.

(It's already been paid though. )

 

[HitchSlap]

Wait until you see the bill.

(It's already been paid though. )

Sorry, as the only first world country on this planet whose citizens do not enjoy universal health care coverage, the bill has most definitely not been paid.

 

[Shemjaza]

You should not talk about things like consciousness when you deny free will.

I explicitly did not deny free will.

I already explained 3 times, the stuff for the DNA bases is made available in a way that each base is equally likely. Then you get a future of zillions of possible permutations of DNA, and then it's chosen. This is not a complete hypothesis but it shows the power of choosing, that you can have zillions of permutations in the future.

Two problems:

1) This isn't true. Not all permutations of DNA are equally likely. In particular not all of them will code for viable life forms or viruses.

2) You have't described where the choice occurs. If every possible chain of DNA is equally possible, how does a choice in one or another occur?

 

[AV1611VET]

Sorry, as the only first world country on this planet whose citizens do not enjoy universal health care coverage, the bill has most definitely not been paid.

Wrong disease.

 

[HitchSlap]

Wrong disease.

Right, designed to be sick then huck the cure.

 

[Nando Ronteltap]

I explicitly did not deny free will.


Two problems:

1) This isn't true. Not all permutations of DNA are equally likely. In particular not all of them will code for viable life forms or viruses.

2) You have't described where the choice occurs. If every possible chain of DNA is equally possible, how does a choice in one or another occur?

I was just demonstrating the power of choice, how you can have zillions of permutations in the future to decide from. It is just one part of the puzzle.

The mathematical ordering of the DNA system is the same as the basic ordering of the universe in general is the same as the basic mathematical ordering of the human mind, is the same as the basic ordering in mathematics itself. A parsimonious hypothesis.

So basically the DNA system acts as a mind, as a sort of universe in it's own right. And it would require to have the stuff to make DNA at the ready, in order to choose new DNA, or change present DNA. It's a working hypothesis something to look for, if you accept choice is a physical reality. But the thing is you don't accept choice is a physical reality, you just believe choice is some cultural fantasy.

 

[lasthero]

I'm gonna give him a little more leeway to see if he comes up with anything. If he goes off about attitude again, I'm putting him on ignore.

It’s like arguing with someone who says that Joseph Stalin killed Abraham Lincoln because pies are fish.

Where do you even start?

 

[AV1611VET]

It’s like arguing with someone who says that Joseph Stalin killed Abraham Lincoln because pies are fish.

Where do you even start?

At the scene of the crime: Genesis 3.