If a local law contradicts the Bible, what should we obey?

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Jesus said local law has authority over Him.
Then died to prove the point.

Citation please. Where does it say local law had authority over Jesus.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

It's actually funny that commentaries take the same unsupported stand. But people believe what they are told on one level over what is written.

But in real life, Christians follow the legal code over scripture, most every time.
Even if they claim they don't.

Commentaries are made by theologians who are much smarter than you and I. Can you provide one shred of evidence that suggest that you are not the only person in this world with your position? Are you the first person in over 2000 years to be enlightened enough to discover the truth?

 

[BNR32FAN]

But as a consequence of breaking the law, innocent women and children were thrown to the lions to be eaten. Death comes from disobeying the will of God.

It’s unknown whether or not they were innocent. God is a just God. I would expect there was a reason for His decision.

 

[SkyWriting]

Commentaries are made by theologians who are much smarter than you and I.

Long story short,
I grew up with the children of all the theologians who worked at the National Seminary for my church. In my youth, I helped my dad fix the roofs on their homes. Your analysis that theologians are smarter than average has no merit. I knew their teachers and how they lived.

Can you provide one shred of evidence that suggest that you are not the only person in this world with your position? Are you the first person in over 2000 years to be enlightened enough to discover the truth?

What does the Bible say about government?

The Purpose and Role of Government | ESV.org

As normal, the exceptions are not teachings, but flawed stories of very sad events where believers did not honor the government and scores of people, perhaps their own families, died as a result.

Citation please. Where does it say local law had authority over Jesus.

John 19:11
Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

Matthew 26
55 In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

I am convinced, that Jesus was convinced, that the working government of the world is by way of His Father's hand. Jesus never quoted scripture as the authority over local government. Rather, Jesus embraced local government as how prophesy is fulfilled.

 

[SkyWriting]

It’s unknown whether or not they were innocent. God is a just God. I would expect there was a reason for His decision.

I don't expect my neighbors to disobey local laws, just as they don't expect that of me.

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Hebrews 13:2
Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

It’s unknown whether or not they were innocent. God is a just God. I would expect there was a reason for His decision.

I wouldn't put my accusers and their family to death.

Luke 6:31
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

 

[W2L]

I don't expect my neighbors to disobey local laws, just as they don't expect that of me.

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Hebrews 13:2
Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.



I wouldn't put my accusers and their family to death.

Luke 6:31
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Mans law (the government) doesnt say i need to love anyone, so how is mans law replacing Gods command to love? Could you quote the governments law that says i must love my neighbor and enemy too? You take a lot of scripture out of context, btw

 

[SkyWriting]

Mans law (the government) doesnt say i need to love anyone, so how is mans law replacing Gods command to love? Could you quote the governments law that says i must love my neighbor and enemy too? You take a lot of scripture out of context, btw

The context is far better than my limited quotes by the way.

I don't wish for people to tune out, so I provide the link to the context most all the time.

Ecclesiastes 8:2-9
2 I say, “Keep the command of the king because of the oath before God. 3“Do not be in a hurry to leave him. Do not join in an evil matter, for he will do whatever he pleases.” 4 Since the word of the king is authoritative, who will say to him, “What are you doing?”
5 He who keeps a royal command experiences no trouble, for a wise heart knows the proper time and procedure. 6 For there is a proper time and procedure for every delight, though a man’s trouble is heavy upon him. 7 If no one knows what will happen, who can tell him when it will happen? 8 No man has authority to restrain the wind with the wind, or authority over the day of death; and there is no discharge in the time of war, and evil will not deliver those who practice it. 9 All this I have seen and applied my mind to every deed that has been done under the sun wherein a man has exercised authority over another man to his hurt.

 

[RDKirk]

You've spent most of your participation in this thread judging the intentions of others.

So again, were the first and second century martyrs wrong to disobey Rome? Or were they right?

Or, for that matter, are undercover believers in North Korea wrong to disobey "Dearest Leader?"

 

[W2L]

The context is far better than my limited quotes by the way.

I don't wish for people to tune out, so I provide the link to the context most all the time.

Ecclesiastes 8:2-9
2 I say, “Keep the command of the king because of the oath before God. 3“Do not be in a hurry to leave him. Do not join in an evil matter, for he will do whatever he pleases.” 4 Since the word of the king is authoritative, who will say to him, “What are you doing?”
5 He who keeps a royal command experiences no trouble, for a wise heart knows the proper time and procedure. 6 For there is a proper time and procedure for every delight, though a man’s trouble is heavy upon him. 7 If no one knows what will happen, who can tell him when it will happen? 8 No man has authority to restrain the wind with the wind, or authority over the day of death; and there is no discharge in the time of war, and evil will not deliver those who practice it. 9 All this I have seen and applied my mind to every deed that has been done under the sun wherein a man has exercised authority over another man to his hurt.

You didnt answer the question. Mans law (the government) doesnt say i need to love anyone, so how is mans law replacing Gods command to love? Could you quote the governments law that says i must love my neighbor and enemy too?

 

[SkyWriting]

You didnt answer the question. Mans law (the government) doesnt say i need to love anyone, so how is mans law replacing Gods command to love? Could you quote the governments law that says i must love my neighbor and enemy too?

True. I didn't.

 

[W2L]

True. I didn't.

And you wont. I will assume this is just a game to you and move on.

 

[SkyWriting]

And you wont. I will assume this is just a game to you and move on.

I don't support your argument, so I have no support for it.
You can make any assumptions you wish.

 

[W2L]

I don't support your argument,

You dont refute it. I just proved your theology wrong and you didnt refute it

 

[SkyWriting]

But look who didn't die. The one who was faithful to God.

We all die too.

 

[SkyWriting]

You dont refute it. I just proved your theology wrong and you didnt refute it

One misquote I won't support has no impact on what scripture actually says. How you came to your conclusions is completely understandable. I am the only Christian quoting Jesus claiming that local government has authority over Himself granted by the Father above. Which is what He said. John 19 NIV

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. ...

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

Daniel 4:17
The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, the decision by the word of the holy ones, to the end that the living may know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will and sets over it the lowliest of men.’

Titus 3:1-2
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.

Acts 24:16
So I always take pains to have a clear conscience toward both God and man.

John 19:10-11
So Pilate said to him, “You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and authority to crucify you?” Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

Daniel 6:1-28
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom 120 satraps, to be throughout the whole kingdom; and over them three presidents, of whom Daniel was one, to whom these satraps should give account, so that the king might suffer no loss. Then this Daniel became distinguished above all the other presidents and satraps, because an excellent spirit was in him. And the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. Then the presidents and the satraps sought to find a ground for complaint against Daniel with regard to the kingdom, but they could find no ground for complaint or any fault, because he was faithful, and no error or fault was found in him. Then these men said, “We shall not find any ground for complaint against this Daniel unless we find it in connection with the law of his God.”

Daniel 3:1-30
King Nebuchadnezzar made an image of gold, whose height was sixty cubits and its breadth six cubits. He set it up on the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon. Then King Nebuchadnezzar sent to gather the satraps, the prefects, and the governors, the counselors, the treasurers, the justices, the magistrates, and all the officials of the provinces to come to the dedication of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. Then the satraps, the prefects, and the governors, the counselors, the treasurers, the justices, the magistrates, and all the officials of the provinces gathered for the dedication of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. And they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up. And the herald proclaimed aloud, “You are commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, that when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe, and every kind of music, you are to fall down and worship the golden image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up.

Daniel 2:21
He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding;

2 John 1:1-13
The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth, because of the truth that abides in us and will be with us forever: Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ the Father's Son, in truth and love. I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father. And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. ...

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Hebrews 13:6
So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”

 

[W2L]

One misquote I won't support has no impact on what scripture actually says.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. ...

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

Daniel 4:17
The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, the decision by the word of the holy ones, to the end that the living may know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will and sets over it the lowliest of men.’

Titus 3:1-2
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.

Acts 24:16
So I always take pains to have a clear conscience toward both God and man.

John 19:10-11
So Pilate said to him, “You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and authority to crucify you?” Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

Daniel 6:1-28
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom 120 satraps, to be throughout the whole kingdom; and over them three presidents, of whom Daniel was one, to whom these satraps should give account, so that the king might suffer no loss. Then this Daniel became distinguished above all the other presidents and satraps, because an excellent spirit was in him. And the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. Then the presidents and the satraps sought to find a ground for complaint against Daniel with regard to the kingdom, but they could find no ground for complaint or any fault, because he was faithful, and no error or fault was found in him. Then these men said, “We shall not find any ground for complaint against this Daniel unless we find it in connection with the law of his God.”

Daniel 3:1-30
King Nebuchadnezzar made an image of gold, whose height was sixty cubits and its breadth six cubits. He set it up on the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon. Then King Nebuchadnezzar sent to gather the satraps, the prefects, and the governors, the counselors, the treasurers, the justices, the magistrates, and all the officials of the provinces to come to the dedication of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. Then the satraps, the prefects, and the governors, the counselors, the treasurers, the justices, the magistrates, and all the officials of the provinces gathered for the dedication of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. And they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up. And the herald proclaimed aloud, “You are commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, that when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe, and every kind of music, you are to fall down and worship the golden image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up.

Daniel 2:21
He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding;

2 John 1:1-13
The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth, because of the truth that abides in us and will be with us forever: Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ the Father's Son, in truth and love. I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father. And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. ...

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Hebrews 13:6
So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”

Spamming scripture doesnt refute my argument. Your theology is wrong, just admit it to yourself.

 

[SkyWriting]

Spamming scripture doesnt refute my argument. Your theology is wrong, just admit it to yourself.

Quoting scripture is a good practice to use. I admit that others avoid it to make their personal changes to scripture.

2 Corinthians 3
1Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[W2L]

Quoting scripture is a good practice to use. I admit that others avoid it to make their personal changes to scripture.

Quote the laws of mankind that says i must love others. You cant. Its nonexistent. Mans law is secondary to Gods holy law.

 

[SkyWriting]

Quote the laws of mankind that says i must love others. You cant. Its nonexistent. Mans law is secondary to Gods holy law.

Every law of local government puts the love of others
as it's primary reason for existence. It's not as visible,
when God allows dictators to mame and torture,
but that is part of The Father will for us as well.

It's not the romantic love, but instead,
agape love(pronounced ag-ah'-pay)

from 25; love, i.e. affection or benevolence; specially (plural) a love-feast:--(feast of) charity(-ably), dear, love.

Strongs's #26: agape - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools

 

[SkyWriting]

Mans law is secondary to Gods holy law.

Quoting scripture is a good practice to use.