Genesis 17 is referring to Abraham.
Genesis 17:12 is referring to Abraham, and to not Abraham.
When were the latter excluded from the Sinai covenant?
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Genesis 17 is referring to Abraham.
Yep. Isn't God just wonderfulGal_3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."
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The ideas expressed in your post seem to be overlooking quite a few scriptural passages in the new testament. I agree that we disagree.Persons converting to Judaism are not considered gentiles any longer but Jews (according to Judaism), when they place themselves under the law. To be under the law, a person has to be part of the people who part of the Mt. Sinai covenant.
Gentiles were never part of the Mt. Sinai covenant.
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
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Old covenant and new covenant are terms pertaining to Israel.
The gospel - the good news - forgiveness of sins and eternal life pertains to the Church.
“Trinity” does not explicitly appear in Scripture. “Ephraim” does. We are therefore compelled to abide by what is said, and what is not said, concerning it.
If “Ephraim” can explicitly appear as the name of a New Testament city, then there is no reason that it should not also explicitly appear in association with what you espouse, which is of far greater significance, if what you espouse is Scriptural.
It does not so appear.
Such espousal thus constitutes an importation of “interpretation by imagination” of the type so frequently seen in the dispensational genre.
What is replacement theology, and how is it heresy?
Christ is the Servant that is tasked to "raise up the tribes of Jacob" at the time the "nation" Judah is ordained to abhor the Redeemer (Isaiah 49:6-7). Clearly, Jacob is also Ephraim that is desolate, captive, and removing to and fro (v.21), which we also see in Isaiah 54:1. The Servant is also tasked to be a light to the Gentiles, that he may be God's salvation unto the end of the earth (v. 6). All of which was ordained for the first advent.
Ephraim.......and Dan are not mentioned in Revelation.......Here is some info on Ephraim.......If “Ephraim” can explicitly appear as the name of a New Testament city, then there is no reason that it should not also explicitly appear in association with what you espouse, which is of far greater
Such espousal thus constitutes an importation of “interpretation by imagination” of the type so frequently seen in the dispensational genre.
What is replacement theology, and how is it heresy?
Ephraim.......and Dan are not mentioned in Revelation.......Here is some info on Ephraim.......
Zec 9
10 I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim
And the horse from Jerusalem; [Revelation 18:10-13]
The battle bow shall be cut off.
He shall speak peace to the nations;
His dominion shall be ‘from sea to sea,
And from the River to the ends of the earth.'[fn]
13 For I have bent Judah, My bow, Fitted the bow with Ephraim,
And raised up your sons, O Zion, Against your sons, O Greece,
And made you like the sword of a mighty man.”
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Paul's tribe of Benjamin is stationed with both Ephraim and Manasseh on the west side, the side the Holy of Holies is located and just opposite of Judah on the east side where the entrance gate is.
Num 2:18
3 “On the east side, toward the rising of the sun, those of the standard of the forces with Judah shall camp according to their armies; and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be the leader of the children of Judah.”
18 “On the west side the standard of the forces with Ephraim according to their armies, and the leader of the children of Ephraim shall be Elishama the son of Ammihud.
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The tribe of Levi eventually joined with the tribes of Judah and Benjamin to comprise the Southern priestly kingdom, creating the House/Kingdom of Judah
Hebrew 7:14
For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah,
and in regard to that tribe, Moses said nothing about priests.
View attachment 252777
The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19
Revelation 18:
10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting<929> of Her saying
"Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
12 Cargo of gold and silver,................................
13 .....................................
and wheat and cattle and sheep
and of horses and of chariots
and of bodies and souls of men.
If I might make an additional comment. I am not arguing any point of your post. Just commenting in referring to the end times. Hebrews 7 also mentions the priesthood of Melchizedek, which refers back to Psalms 110. There is information in Psalms 110 that is specific to the end times.Hebrew 7:14
For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah,
and in regard to that tribe, Moses said nothing about priests.
The plain truth is that the “nation” isn’t expressly defined in the text, so your presumption that your Replacement theology is a slam-dunk is simply that: presumption.
Context determines whether Ephraim represents the tribe or the nation. I Revelation it represents the tribe. In Zechariah 9:10, it represents the nation.
It is defined in 1 Peter 2:9 (where"ye" and "you" are "a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people) and reconfirmed in Revelation 1:6 (where "us" are "kings and priests").
In both cases, it refers to the Church.
Ephraim is conspicuously omitted from the tribal list in Revelation 7.
If you reject replacement theology, then you believe that God still has two peoples, Israel and the Church. Is that accurate?
Ephraim in Revelation 7 represents the tribe.
Ephraim does not appear in Revelation 7. How can it represent the tribe if it does not appear?
Are there two peoples of God?
You're evading the point that Israel, the northern ten tribes, also goes by the term Ephraim. In Revelation, the tribe is not sealed and one has to read and understand Hosea to know why. It doesn't distract from the grammatical-historical evidence that the church is the vehicle to raise the tribes of Ephraim/Israel/Jacob and inherit the gentiles, becoming "one people" in Christ. Even so, women remain women, men remain men, and Ephraimites remain Ephraimites, biologically.
Aren't we now Kings and Priests in the New Jerusalem?If I might make an additional comment. I am not arguing any point of your post. Just commenting in referring to the end times. Hebrews 7 also mentions the priesthood of Melchizedek, which refers back to Psalms 110. There is information in Psalms 110 that is specific to the end times.
Psalms 110 + Psalms 2 + Ezekiel 39:17-29 = Jesus.
Psalms 2 - why do the heathen rage and image a vain thing?
Psalms 110 - He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
Ezekiel 39:21 - And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Aren't we now Kings and Priests in the New Jerusalem?
This is in the "Present" tense..
ICONO'CLAST said: ↑
Israel was to be the Covenant Son, they failed;[during the first Exodus]
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:...........
Jerryhuerta said: ↑
Christ is the Servant that is tasked to "raise up the tribes of Jacob" at the time the "nation" Judah is ordained to abhor the Redeemer (Isaiah 49:6-7). Clearly, Jacob is also Ephraim that is desolate, captive, and removing to and fro (v.21),.......
jgr said: ↑
If “Ephraim” can explicitly appear as the name of a New Testament city, then there is no reason that it should not also explicitly appear in association with what you espouse, which is of far greater...............
LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Hebrew 7:14For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah,
and in regard to that tribe, Moses said nothing about priests.
Douggg said: ↑
If I might make an additional comment. I am not arguing any point of your post. Just commenting in referring to the end times. Hebrews 7 also mentions the priesthood of Melchizedek, which refers back to Psalms 110. There is information in Psalms 110 that is specific to the end times.
Psalms 110 + Psalms 2 + Ezekiel 39:17-29 = Jesus.
Psalms 2 - why do the heathen rage and image a vain thing?
Psalms 110 - He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
Ezekiel 39:21 - And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Aren't we now Kings and Priests in the New Jerusalem?
This is in the "Present" tense..
The author of Hebrews has us in it so take that up with him.........It is our future destination, but we are not there yet, based on the following text.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
22 But ye have come-toward<4334> Zion, to a Mountain and to a City of living God, a heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriad<3461> of messengers,Revelation 8:8 And the second Messenger trumpets, and as a great Mountain to fire burning<2545> was cast into the sea, and became the third of the sea blood [Matthew 12:21 Hebrews 12:18]
Even so, the kingdom of God was taken from Judah and given to Ephraim.
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (Matthew 21:43)
The administration of the house of God changed hands.
The author of Hebrews has us in it so take that up with him.........
That is referring to the OT Hebrews..........OK
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
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That is referring to the OT Hebrews..........
The Cross and Resurrection of Jesus fulfilled it for them.