Jesus has no DNA from Mary

[klutedavid]

Thanks sister.

Jesus was the new Adam.
His mother was the new Eve.

Jesus never sinned.
His mother never sinned.

Jesus didn't need a savior.
His mother did need a savior.

Next you'll be telling us that ordained Roman Catholic priests have the power to say the secret words and change bread and wine into flesh and blood and carry them to and fro to dispense or withhold salvation to the masses.

Silly extra Biblical Catholic hocus-pocus - better saved for another thread.

Mary cannot be the new Eve?

Mary bore the Christ, Jesus was Mary's Son for a short while. Mary cannot represent Eve that is just a form of heresy.

 

[klutedavid]

I am not implying that you said Jesus is not God. I got the impression that you are saying that Jesus is God in name only and that He no longer has His divine attributes as the Eternal Logos anymore because He was God turned into only being a man (during His earthly ministry).

In other words, some believe in a version of the Kenosis that says that Jesus completely emptied Himself of His divine attributes or privileges in Philippians 2:6-9. I don't believe that to be the case because there are other verses that suggest that Jesus did have power of His own as the Eternal Logos.

I believe that Jesus emptied Himself and relied 100% on His Father. Yet Jesus was Divine Royalty from start to finish, the Creator of Heaven and Earth. Jesus has always been with us.

Jesus walked in the garden with Adam.

Jesus spoke to the prophets and became one of us.

Royalty cannot be hidden, you always see it in the behavior, the speech, and the testimony of those that knew Him.

Jesus was being humble but it did not really work. Jesus was worshiped many times and not once did He complain, that says it all.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Then Jesus would have no connection to the rest of us humans and how could we be sure that we can even be saved? We can be sure Jesus's humanity could be redeemed but not our own since we can't be sure he was actually human per this reasoning. Christ being our salvation takes on a greater importance when we see that Christ was truly and completely human of the same stock of Adam that we all are. What would then be the point of God going through this elaborate deception of making Jesus appear to be completely and totally human like us?

 

[Dkh587]

The Messiah is the Son of David. He would need to genetically descend from David in order to be his son.

 

[klutedavid]

Then Jesus would have no connection to the rest of us humans and how could we be sure that we can even be saved? We can be sure Jesus's humanity could be redeemed but not our own since we can't be sure he was actually human per this reasoning. Christ being our salvation takes on a greater importance when we see that Christ was truly and completely human of the same stock of Adam that we all are. What would then be the point of God going through this elaborate deception of making Jesus appear to be completely and totally human like us?

Jesus did not have a human father so on this first point, Jesus is certainly not like us.

Jesus came to do the will of His Father, Jesus was not a created entity like us. Jesus was sent to us and Jesus was on a mission.

Jesus was perfect, faultless, sinless, and beyond comprehension.

This was Jesus before He took on human form.

Daniel 10:5-6
I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult.

This is Jesus after the resurrection.

Revelation 1:12-16
Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lamp stands; and in the middle of the lamp stands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash. His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.

Your trying to tell me that a humble Jesus in human form was never God?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe that Jesus emptied Himself and relied 100% on His Father. Yet Jesus was Divine Royalty from start to finish, the Creator of Heaven and Earth. Jesus has always been with us.

Jesus walked in the garden with Adam.

Jesus spoke to the prophets and became one of us.

Royalty cannot be hidden, you always see it in the behavior, the speech, and the testimony of those that knew Him.

Jesus was being humble but it did not really work. Jesus was worshiped many times and not once did He complain, that says it all.

So He lost His powers as GOD?
Or did He merely suppress them?
If He completely lost His powers as GOD then what do you make of the verses in my previous list to you that show that Jesus did in fact have power as GOD during His Earthly ministry?

 

[klutedavid]

The Messiah is the Son of David. He would need to genetically descend from David in order to be his son.

Technically Jesus just needs to be born of a descendant of David, born into the house of David.

Jesus never lost His original identity when he became one of us. Jesus was always our creator, Jesus always spoke with authority, the divine authority that only YHWH had.

 

[klutedavid]

So He lost His powers as GOD?
Or did He merely suppress them?
If He completely lost His powers as GOD then what do you make of the verses in my previous list to you that show that Jesus did in fact have power as GOD during His Earthly ministry?

Jesus was always God so He would have suppressed His divinity. Jesus could have summoned a legion of angels at any time during His earthly life.

The angels were subjected to Him during His earthly life, so was the demonic realm. You cannot suppress Divine Authority.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Jesus did not have a human father so on this first point, Jesus is certainly not like us.

Jesus came to do the will of His Father, Jesus was not a created entity like us. Jesus was sent to us and Jesus was on a mission.

Jesus was perfect, faultless, sinless, and beyond comprehension.

This was Jesus before He took on human form.

Daniel 10:5-6
I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult.

This is Jesus after the resurrection.

Revelation 1:12-16
Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lamp stands; and in the middle of the lamp stands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash. His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.

Your trying to tell me that a humble Jesus in human form was never God?

Jesus is like us, insofar as his humanity is derived not from an artificial creation of God apart from the regular course of our species but from Mary. That is, he truly took from his Mother's DNA, he truly belonged to the line of David and consequently to all humanity.

Yes Christ is different, but as to his human nature he is no different than we are. If we are going to suggest Christ's humanity is different from our own, I don't see what was accomplished by his life. He was an alien, a new species, not a man whom we can look to and see our own salvation accomplished. Christ had the same fallen nature as Adam's and that was exactly the point, to lift that nature out of the muck and mire of sin. He bore the consequences of our sins.

I take issue with the idea of Jesus being faultless, in the sense that he had a body that was immune to physical fault. This is exhibited in his death, if his humanity was so great and perfect he would not have died, would not have been able to be hurt, but the fact that he was hurt demonstrates to me he was entirely human.

I am not suggesting Jesus was never God. I am a Trinitarian and believe in the incarnation as taught to us by the nicene creed. But I think the theology of Maximos the Confessor or Athanasius right on this subject. God became man, that we might become like God.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Jesus has no DNA from Mary, because Mary is a surrogated mother only.

Then there will be no need of Immaculate Conception: the conception of the Virgin Mary free from original sin by virtue of the merits of her son Jesus.

Gestational surrogacy was first achieved in April 1986. It takes place when an embryo created by in vitro fertilization (IVF) technology is implanted in a surrogate, sometimes called a gestational carrier.

Gestational surrogacy may take a number of forms, but in each form the resulting child is genetically unrelated to the surrogate.

Holy Spirit created the embryo of Jesus inside Mary.

*W * R * O * N * G *

St. Paul Paul explicitly says,
"God sent His Son, made from a woman." Read Galatians 4:4.

Or is that verse not in your Bible?

The Church, both Roman Catholic and Eastern Churches, have always taught that "the flesh of Christ is Mary's flesh."

Try again.

 

[TuxAme]

Thanks sister.

Jesus was the new Adam.
His mother was the new Eve.

Jesus never sinned.
His mother never sinned.

Jesus didn't need a savior.
His mother did need a savior.

Next you'll be telling us that ordained Roman Catholic priests have the power to say the secret words and change bread and wine into flesh and blood and carry them to and fro to dispense or withhold salvation to the masses.

Silly extra Biblical Catholic hocus-pocus - better saved for another thread.

The apostles certainly didn't think that Jesus' Real Presence in the Eucharist was "extra-Biblical Catholic hocus-pocus", nor did any of the martyrs over the past 20 centuries of Christian history who've risked their lives (and often laid them down) in order to rescue the Blessed Sacrament from harm. At least you cared to express your opinion where it belongs: Controversial Christian Theology.

If you feel like trying to debunk anything I've said, feel free to start a thread of substance in General Theology and clue me in. Just try not to offend the Body of Christ again if you choose to do so.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul explicitly says,
"God sent His Son, made from a woman." Read Galatians 4:4.

Great find of a verse on this point.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Monk Brendan]

//Or did He merely suppress them?//

I don't know what translation of the Bible you use, but the REAL Bible accepted by Christians says that the Logos "emptied Himself".

Furthermore, if Jesus did not really get his human nature from Mary, then the geneology in Luke lies, because it says that in His human nature, He was descended from Adam.

Where are you getting these weird ideas? They are NOWHERE in the Bible

 

[Natsumi Lam]

It's the furthest thing from heresy. You only call it a heresy because you don't understand the teaching. Mary was conceived in the same state that the Old Eve was- sinless. The only difference between the two is that, like Jesus (the New Adam), Mary (the New Eve) never disobeyed God. The two of them never ate the fruit from the tree that God told them to avoid. In no way does God choosing to exercise His saving power in a unique way for the mother of Christ eliminate the fact that she needed a savior.

Please provide Biblical proof.

Also proof that Mary is sinless. Are you saying Jesus didnt die for her?

 

[klutedavid]

*W * R * O * N * G *

St. Paul Paul explicitly says,
"God sent His Son, made from a woman." Read Galatians 4:4.

Or is that verse not in your Bible?

The Church, both Roman Catholic and Eastern Churches, have always taught that "the flesh of Christ is Mary's flesh."

Try again.

Read the text again.

 

[TuxAme]

Please provide Biblical proof.

I would need Biblical proof that Biblical proof is the only acceptable form of proof- but Jesus established a Church, not Scripture (though He used and inspired it), so I can't constrain myself to that latter century convention.

That said, I could argue that, because Scripture doesn't indicate any time that Mary sinned, that she never did. Of course, I don't subscribe to sola or solo scriptura, so I recognize the faultiness in that argument.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus was always God so He would have suppressed His divinity. Jesus could have summoned a legion of angels at any time during His earthly life.

It is definitely better to say that He suppressed His divine powers than to say He was stripped of His divine privileges (powers).

However, here are three powers that Jesus clearly expressed openly upon the Earth as being His own power.

#1. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#2 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#3. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.

The angels were subjected to Him during His earthly life, so was the demonic realm.

Agreed on this point.

You cannot suppress Divine Authority.

Well, Jesus did give up sitting upon His throne in Heaven next to the Father.
But this was no doubt under God the Father's authority (of which He obviously agreed with). But it was still a giving up of authority of sorts. Jesus has the right to sit next to God the Father, but He gave up that right or authority to save us.

 

[klutedavid]

Jesus is like us, insofar as his humanity is derived not from an artificial creation of God apart from the regular course of our species but from Mary. That is, he truly took from his Mother's DNA, he truly belonged to the line of David and consequently to all humanity.

Yes Christ is different, but as to his human nature he is no different than we are. If we are going to suggest Christ's humanity is different from our own, I don't see what was accomplished by his life. He was an alien, a new species, not a man whom we can look to and see our own salvation accomplished. Christ had the same fallen nature as Adam's and that was exactly the point, to lift that nature out of the muck and mire of sin. He bore the consequences of our sins.

I take issue with the idea of Jesus being faultless, in the sense that he had a body that was immune to physical fault. This is exhibited in his death, if his humanity was so great and perfect he would not have died, would not have been able to be hurt, but the fact that he was hurt demonstrates to me he was entirely human.

I am not suggesting Jesus was never God. I am a Trinitarian and believe in the incarnation as taught to us by the nicene creed. But I think the theology of Maximos the Confessor or Athanasius right on this subject. God became man, that we might become like God.

That is impossible, Mary and Joseph need to be joined, one flesh to produce an offspring.

Jesus took on our human form, Jesus was not created in human form like us.

Jesus does not have the genetic lineage of Adam. Born of a woman and that's all.

Mary was chosen to bear the child, Mary was not chosen to be the mother of God. Jesus always existed, Jesus was always the Word, Jesus was God on earth through and by eternal decree.

Jesus, our Creator, His Majesty, became one of us. Mary really has nothing to do with this at all. Mary was a temporal, earthly creature, merely chosen for a task.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Read the text again.

So you don't believe Jesus was in the genetic lineage of Mary?
If so, then why be born inside a woman if that is the case?
Why not just come down directly from Heaven in a flesh like form?
It would suggest deception on God's part if Mary was in no way the actual mother genetically to Jesus. God does not need a womb to create a new life if Mary was not really the mother genetically for Jesus. God can raise the dead to life or create new life from out of the ground. No woman was needed.... UNLESS.... God promised that the Messiah would come from the line of David.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That is impossible, Mary and Joseph need to be joined, one flesh to produce an offspring.

Jesus took on our human form, Jesus was not created in human form like us.

Jesus does not have the genetic lineage of Adam. Born of a woman and that's all.

Mary was chosen to bear the child, Mary was not chosen to be the mother of God. Jesus always existed, Jesus was always the Word, Jesus was God on earth through and by eternal decree.

Jesus, our Creator, His Majesty, became one of us. Mary really has nothing to do with this at all. Mary was a temporal, earthly creature, merely chosen for a task.

The seed of a woman is her genetic code.

The LORD told the serpent that the woman’s seed (Eve’s DNA) would “bruise” his head.