Child sacrifice in America dealt with by heaven

[dad]

He didn’t love them enough to prevent all of them from being molested.

All children in public schools are molested with godless teachings. If you think loving mankind means that we should not have a chance to live life, good and bad, well, apparently a lot of people and God disagree. You are saying that if God allows anything bad to happen, maybe that you stub your toe and it hurts...that God is then evil.

Gong.

 

[dad]

If it was a silly misconception you would be able to refute it using some semblance of logic. Like I’ve said before, I’ve never seen a Christian be able to do so successfully.

I guess I’m... undefeated...

You probably never will see anyone successfully dismiss your chosen delusion. Sorry.

 

[Rajni]

It is now.

It is now -- you mean disobedience wasn't a sin before
sin entered the picture?

If it wasn't, then why would it bring sin into the picture?

 

[Strathos]

All children in public schools are molested with godless teachings.

Molested with reading, writing, and arithmetic, that's a new one.

 

[dad]

It is now -- you mean disobedience wasn't a sin before
sin entered the picture?

If it wasn't, then why would it bring sin into the picture?

I guess the test was that if they ate the fruit from that one tree they would die. Sin entered the world and death. Man didn't know what sin was because he didn't know good and evil, just the good. I figure if it was just the good, sin was not there. But I don't think it is a big issue, and we can call it sin if we like.

Ro 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

[dad]

Molested with reading, writing, and arithmetic, that's a new one.

Molested with sexual perversion teachings, anti creation teachings and generally bad stuff. The educational cup of hot chocolate now also contains poisons as well as the chocolate.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

All children in public schools are molested with godless teachings.

Using ridiculous hyperbole does a huge disservice to the children who have been actually molested, and the horrors they faced.

I would hope that I’m more moral than to say something that callous.

If you think loving mankind means that we should not have a chance to live life, good and bad, well, apparently a lot of people and God disagree.

So if I brought you a child that had been molested, you be fine in telling them that the world is a much better place because an omnipotent god allowed them to be molested, because of the “rich tapestry of life” it creates?

I’m guessing a lot of people disagree...

You are saying that if God allows anything bad to happen, maybe that you stub your toe and it hurts...that God is then evil.

Gong.

Did I say that? No, no I didn’t...

Gong

 

[ToddNotTodd]

You probably never will see anyone successfully dismiss your chosen delusion. Sorry.

You haven’t even shown any effort...

 

[Strathos]

Molested with sexual perversion teachings, anti creation teachings and generally bad stuff. The educational cup of hot chocolate now also contains poisons as well as the chocolate.

I don't recall any of that back when I was in public school.

 

[dad]

Using ridiculous hyperbole does a huge disservice to the children who have been actually molested, and the horrors they faced.

Damning kids to hell and robbing them from knowing the truth and subjecting them to lives of Satanic despair, drugs and perversions and lies is a horror that lasts a life time and affects eternity.

So if I brought you a child that had been molested, you be fine in telling them that the world is a much better place because an omnipotent god allowed them to be molested, because of the “rich tapestry of life” it creates?

Some kids were robbed of parents by the state. Some had parents maimed and killed in unjust wars. Some lost parents to drugs. Some were beaten or sold...etc etc etc. Yet if we ask people with a tough childhood if they were wishing they never were here, I doubt you would find a majority saying yes.

 

[dad]

You haven’t even shown any effort...

Your canard was answered.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Everything in the bible that is about child sacrifice and murder is about abortion.

I'd say "prove it", but we've already seen that you can't. All you have is baseless assertions.

As for what the chapter or prophet was concerned with, I wouldn't ask you. The bible reports things like they are. Not like CNN or some such glossy spin factory.

About that - I think you ought to take what Donald Trump says with a grain of salt. And yes, if you want to know what the Bible really says, you might do well to listen to some atheists. Your opponents can always be relied on to point out the weaknesses in your arguments.

This is news?

In what way are children sent by God? Does he deliberately choose which sperm reaches which egg? If so, then he must also be responsible for the many miscarriages and abortions that occur.
Or are you saying that God doesn't know if an abortion will happen?

Not all murderers are punished here.

Nice dodge. There is, of course, no evidence that "murderers" - as you mistakenly label abortionists and their patients - are ever punished.
But while we're on the subject, do you think they should be? Should a woman who gets an abortion be executed, imprisoned for many years, fined, or let off?

God overrules you. Nowhere does He say that the people in the womb He sends and blesses and cares for and knows are not 'children'. I will take His word over the justification attempts of mass murderers.

But you can't "take His word" because He hasn't given it. The people who wrote the Bible certainly knew what abortion was, but none of them ever condemned it.
That's what we started with, and that's where we are now. The Bible has nothing in it against abortion.

I don't know. I look for clues in the mid east. If the elections in Israel are done, and they release the peace plan, I would look to see if it included sacrifices being restored or a temple etc. But we don't know. Our job is to be ready.

So Christians have been saying for two thousand years now. But not to worry! It could be any day now!

Not everything God does has to make sense to man.

Bingo. You lose.

Since evil is no longer around, not sure why you are freaking out about facing the evil in heaven!

If people have free will in heaven, then it cannot be guaranteed that evil will ever enter heaven; in which case, it would no longer be heaven.
Which part of that do you disagree with?

A perfect person with free will where no evil exists has no worries.

If it is possible for God to create perfect people with free will, why didn't He do so already?

Since all have sinned the opposite holds true. There is no possibility now of NOT sinning.

Since this non-answer completely ignores my question, please see above: "If it is possible for God to create perfect people with free will, why didn't He do so already?"

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Damning kids to hell and robbing them from knowing the truth and subjecting them to lives of Satanic despair, drugs and perversions and lies is a horror that lasts a life time and affects eternity.

Doubling down on a terrible choice of words I see. Personally, I would have apologized for such an egregious mistake, put you do you...

Some kids were robbed of parents by the state. Some had parents maimed and killed in unjust wars. Some lost parents to drugs. Some were beaten or sold...etc etc etc. Yet if we ask people with a tough childhood if they were wishing they never were here, I doubt you would find a majority saying yes.

Completely ignoring the actual argument by setting up a straw man I see. This isn’t a choice between child molestation and non existence. It’s simply a choice between child molestation and an omnipotent god that prevented child molestation without affecting free will.

So, would you be willing to tell a child that’s been molested that you’re happy we live in a world that includes child molestation because it’s better to have terrible things happen to children?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Your canard was answered.

Give me a post number that effectively refutes my argument.

 

[dad]

I'd say "prove it", but we've already seen that you can't. All you have is baseless assertions.

There is no need to prove that women, or old people, or the sick, or the young are not excluded from orders no to kill people or sacrifice children! You are the one singling babies out, as if they were not included, despite the love God has for babies and children.

About that - I think you ought to take what Donald Trump says with a grain of salt. And yes, if you want to know what the Bible really says, you might do well to listen to some atheists. Your opponents can always be relied on to point out the weaknesses in your arguments.

Basically you are saying that if we want to know what God says we should ask Satan. Satan cannot point out any weakness in God, his job is to deceive people into thinking there are some!

In what way are children sent by God? Does he deliberately choose which sperm reaches which egg? If so, then he must also be responsible for the many miscarriages and abortions that occur.
Or are you saying that God doesn't know if an abortion will happen?

Who knows? But they are sent by God according to the bible. If you have some evidence that God has no part in some aspects of making a new person, show it! As for the way some natural things such as reproduction are adversely affected in this sinful world, I can say it is not like that either in the coming kingdom of God on earth, or in heaven! That means that the problems are on this end whatever they may be and are all caused by the effects of sin in the earth.

Nice dodge. There is, of course, no evidence that "murderers" - as you mistakenly label abortionists and their patients - are ever punished.

If God commands against something, what evidence do you have it would not be punished? You sure are making a lot of baseless claims with zero support here.

But while we're on the subject, do you think they should be? Should a woman who gets an abortion be executed, imprisoned for many years, fined, or let off?

Those who spill blood are supposed to be dealt with by the powers that be on earth if I recall. When they are not, then the judgment seems to fall on the powers. This is why it is ominous to me to see countries like the US plunge into ritualistic murders of children. As for our personal sins and crimes etc etc...we all have to stand before God. Thankfully He is merciful and can forgive those who come to Him and are truly sorry. If they don't and won't...well then they must face the music for what they did on their own.

But let me ask you a morality question now also. If some cult ritualistically killed the baby of a mother who offered it up several minutes after it was born, what do you think they would deserve?
I notice that post birth murders are now an issue in the US.

But you can't "take His word" because He hasn't given it. The people who wrote the Bible certainly knew what abortion was, but none of them ever condemned it.
That's what we started with, and that's where we are now. The Bible has nothing in it against abortion.

All commands to honor life and other people and against child sacrifices and murder apply to people of all ages.

So Christians have been saying for two thousand years now. But not to worry! It could be any day now!

Since no one can know exactly when, why would we worry? I think it would be safe to say that those who are familiar with bible prophesy would get somewhat attentive if they saw animals sacrifices officially happening in a new temple in Israel though.

If people have free will in heaven, then it cannot be guaranteed that evil will ever enter heaven; in which case, it would no longer be heaven.
Which part of that do you disagree with?

It is guaranteed that sin and evil and wickedness will not enter. Period.

If it is possible for God to create perfect people with free will, why didn't He do so already?

He is working on it actually. I would think that both mankind, and all created beings in all universes would be learning from our adventure here!

Heb 12:23 - To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect

We may not be perfect here, but we will be one day.

 

[dad]

Doubling down on a terrible choice of words I see. Personally, I would have apologized for such an egregious mistake, put you do you...

Since you apparently agree with the assault on youth in education, naturally you would not consider it harmful. A lot of the physical damage done to others is a result of such godless environments and teachings. I prefer to try and look at causes and not just selected symptoms of a problem. It is interesting that someone offering a big show of concern for children seems to have forgotten to show any concern here for the hundreds of millions of victims killed and wounded from modern child sacrifices. Strange.

Completely ignoring the actual argument by setting up a straw man I see. This isn’t a choice between child molestation and non existence. It’s simply a choice between child molestation and an omnipotent god that prevented child molestation without affecting free will.

If He stepped in over anything I would have thought the ongoing ritualistic Satanic mass murders and sacrifices of the innocents would possibly be a trigger. In fact the OP is about this possibly starting to happen as we speak. Then you try to talk about diversions? Ha.

So, would you be willing to tell a child that’s been molested that you’re happy we live in a world that includes child molestation because it’s better to have terrible things happen to children?

I would tell myself if I was molested by evil teachers by faith robbing, mankind demeaning, Sodom lifestyle preaching, creation denying institutionalized terrorism that a better world was coming. I think kids that has a rough upbringing can get over it in most cases.
Would you tell a child that lost their mother, grandparents, and an arm in a drone strike or air attack that this world would be better off never having existed??

 

[dad]

Give me a post number that effectively refutes my argument.

Better still how about a 'fresh one'? Your arguments had to do with God being evil basically because He allows evil in the world. Right? Jesus refuted that by coming down here to die for us. This tells us that God actually is good and loves us and has a plan and a way out of the mess we got ourselves in to.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Better still how about a 'fresh one'? Your arguments had to do with God being evil basically because He allows evil in the world. Right? Jesus refuted that by coming down here to die for us. This tells us that God actually is good and loves us and has a plan and a way out of the mess we got ourselves in to.

My argument is that an omnipotent god doesn’t have to violate free will when creating beings that make the choice not to do evil, and the fact that since the world isn’t that way, that god prefers the existence of child molesters over there not being any.

Now, do you have any counter arguments to my actual argument, or are you going to keep knocking down straw men?

 

[dad]

My argument is that an omnipotent god doesn’t have to violate free will when creating beings that make the choice not to do evil, and the fact that since the world isn’t that way, that god prefers the existence of child molesters over there not being any.

God does not kill all sinners, sorry that doesn't sit well with you. Otherwise you would be on the list of course. The very fact you are alive shows that you agree that life is worth living even though God does not take over and bring righteousness right now today. In this fallen world of sin God would have to violate free will, and will do that soon, in order to end the evil rule of fallen man.

 

[Selene03]

I guess the test was that if they ate the fruit from that one tree they would die. Sin entered the world and death. Man didn't know what sin was because he didn't know good and evil, just the good. I figure if it was just the good, sin was not there. But I don't think it is a big issue, and we can call it sin if we like.

Ro 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

There are a few things I would like to say. First of all, the Bible is the history of man's salvation, and that is the only way to read it. One cannot read it any other way.

Secondly the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was placed there to remind man that although he was created in God's image and likeness, he is not God, but a creation of God. And only God can define what is good and evil. Man cannot define it for himself. As soon as he did that, he decided on his own to legalize abortion, same-sex marriage, etc. .

Man is supposed to trust in God and form a relationship with Him. Man is supposed to look to God for revelation and not obtain knowledge outside of his relationship with God.Through his relationship with God, man will know good and evil. God told man that if he eats from that tree, he will die. Therefore, Adam and Eve were fully aware of the consequences should they disobey God. The sins of Adam and Eve are disobedience and pride.

In the third place, you are correct that Adam's sin entered the world and even into his descendants. Sin and death came to all mankind. And so Cain killed his brother Abel. That was the first human murder. Many other sins took place after that. Murder, abortion, adultry, theft, lying and all manner of sins were committed by man.

In the fourth place, God gave the Ten Commandments because man was so out of control. Even the people He chose to be His chosen ones were so stiff-necked and stubborn. Nevertheless, the Ten Commandments were given to show man who they are.....murderers, adulterers, thieves, liars, and idolaters. The giving of the law says two things: Those who follow the law lead to a good life. Those who violate the law will not lead to a good life, but to death. In other words, wickedness leads to death. That is what the law has been saying. In the New Testament, Jesus simplified the law into two commandments: Love God and love your neighbor. The Ten Commandments are still in these two laws because in order to love one's neighbor, one should not kill them, lie to them, or steal from them.

However, we find that even with the law in place, there are people who still violate the law. The reason being...man has free will. He can either choose to sin or not to sin. God gave free will to man since the very beginning, and this is why we still have murder, stealing, lying, cheating, etc. God has always respected the choices His creatures made even if He doesn't like their choices.

Finally, our loving Father sent His Son to redeem mankind. He came to save sinners. He ate with the cheating tax collectors, the prostitutes, the liars, the thieves, and even with the hypocritical Pharisees because they were the ones who needed Him the most. And out of his 500 disciples, He chose 12 as His closest Apostles. These 12 were the worst of the lot. Later, He even chose Paul, the persecutor of Christians, to be one of His Apostles.

As Christians, we follow in Christ's footsteps so that Christ can be manifested in us. This is the path a Christian choose and this path leads to life while wickedness leads to death and condemnation. The more we follow in His footsteps, the more we conform to Christ. Christ prayed that we would be one with Him just as He is one with the Father. The Bible is the History of man's salvation and should be read in only that way. In other words, one shouldnt even read it as a science textbook.

As a whole, the message of scripture comes down to two things: 1. That God loves us and 2. Repent and live a life of grace. In order for a child to walk, he must first learn to crawl and then stand. The journey to salvation is like that.

God bless.