Next time JWs knock ask ...

[Gregory Thompson]

That is another part of the irony of the situation. They are knocking at the door because of the alleged urgency to "preach the good news to all the world" because then the end will come yet the verses about wars and rumours of wars and so forth are what they like to refer to as signs of the impending doom of "this system of things".

Well it's a Book of Revelation kind of good news, remember the angel that flies through the sky telling everyone the gospel or good news that there's no hope left for them?

I think there's something about the book of revelation that makes it dangerous to read for new converts, but I'm sure after a few panic attacks they'll figure that out for themselves.

 

[“Paisios”]

Your reply is very Orthodox.

Thank you, sir. I take that as a compliment, since I am only newly Orthodox and still learning the ropes.

 

[GingerBeer]

Well it's a Book of Revelation kind of good news, remember the angel that flies through the sky telling everyone the gospel or good news that there's no hope left for them?

I think there's something about the book of revelation that makes it dangerous to read for new converts, but I'm sure after a few panic attacks they'll figure that out for themselves.

Revelation and Daniel are Adventist favourites. Jehovah's witnesses are a kind of Adventist. Not the Seventh Day sort but closely related.

 

[GingerBeer]

Thank you, sir. I take that as a compliment, since I am only newly Orthodox and still learning the ropes.

It was meant as a compliment.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Revelation and Daniel are Adventist favourites. Jehovah's witnesses are a kind of Adventist. Not the Seventh Day sort but closely related.

Yeah, the adventist age denominations have a certain flavor to them. "Speculative Judgment" and all that.

 

[GingerBeer]

Yeah, the adventist age denominations have a certain flavor to them. "Speculative Judgment" and all that.

Do you mean "Investigative judgement"? Seventh Day Adventists use that phrase to describe something in their theology. Jehovah's witnesses don't have it but they do have constant internal investigations into the "orthodoxy" of their members and constant pressure to "do the work of a publisher" of their message.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Do you mean "Investigative judgement"? Seventh Day Adventists use that phrase to describe something in their theology. Jehovah's witnesses don't have it but they do have constant internal investigations into the "orthodoxy" of their members and constant pressure to "do the work of a publisher" of their message.

It's possible that I read the SDA thing wrong and it said investigative.

It was a timeline and the term (whatever it was) implied that the judgment in revelation already came, but it's not something we can see.

 

[GingerBeer]

It's possible that I read the SDA thing wrong and it said investigative.

It was a timeline and the term (whatever it was) implied that the judgment in revelation already came, but it's not something we can see.

Yes, I think that may be the "investigative judgement". It is happening in heaven, they say, as we type. Jesus allegedly went from the outer compartment of the heavenly temple into the inner compartment - the Most Holy - where "books were opened" and people "judged for the things they have done in the body". It's a kind of character test applied to people who profess Christian faith to see if they live up to their calling or not. I am not sure of their current views but I have read that in the past they link the investigative judgement to Saturday observance. But doctrines change in such groups and events get reinterpreted. Jehovah's witnesses call it "new light" and they quote from Proverbs about the light getting brighter and brighter".

Proverbs 4:16 For they cannot sleep unless they do what is bad. They are robbed of sleep unless they cause someone’s downfall. 17 They feed themselves with the bread of wickedness,And they drink the wine of violence. 18 But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight. (from the 2013 edition of the JW bible)​

 

[DaveM]

when you invite them into your house you are giving a bad example to neighbors that may not know they are a cult, they probably think they are just like you a christian. You are sending a message that these people are good. the bible is clear do not invite them in.

2 John 1:7-11
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

 

[GingerBeer]

when you invite them into your house you are giving a bad example to neighbors that may not know they are a cult, they probably think they are just like you a christian. You are sending a message that these people are good. the bible is clear do not invite them in.

2 John 1:7-11
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

All of the discussions I've had with Jehovah's witnesses have been at the door, usually on the door step.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

One JW doctrine is that people who lived before Christ could not be saved. They maintain that when the Bible says God "took" Enoch, that was just another way of saying he died like everybody else. Ditto for Elijah.

Well, there was this pair who kept coming back to our house no matter how many times we told them we weren't interested and asked them not to. So I went to their own translation of the Bible and opened it to Hebrews 11:5. By faith, Enoch was transferred so as not to see death. How do they explain this?

They didn't know. Told me they'd have to check with their supervisors and get back to me. They never returned. As long as I lived in that house, no JW ever came back.

There is currently a sign above my doorbell demanding that JW's and LDS do NOT ring this doorbell. GO AWAY! I don't want to be rude, but I had a more polite sign up, and they kept ignoring it.

 

[GingerBeer]

One JW doctrine is that people who lived before Christ could not be saved. They maintain that when the Bible says God "took" Enoch, that was just another way of saying he died like everybody else. Ditto for Elijah.

Well, there was this pair who kept coming back to our house no matter how many times we told them we weren't interested and asked them not to. So I went to their own translation of the Bible and opened it to Hebrews 11:5. By faith, Enoch was transferred so as not to see death. How do they explain this?

They didn't know. Told me they'd have to check with their supervisors and get back to me. They never returned. As long as I lived in that house, no JW ever came back.

There is currently a sign above my doorbell demanding that JW's and LDS do NOT ring this doorbell. GO AWAY! I don't want to be rude, but I had a more polite sign up, and they kept ignoring it.

JWs can be interesting, but usually not so much.

I do sometimes wonder why end times is such a topic of interest for them.

 

[RoseCrystal]

I like to ask them who their mediator is, most of them are unaware of the Watchtower teaching on this subject and will quote"1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" then I inform them that according to the Watchtower Jesus is only the mediator for the 144,000 and the rest of the population need the Watchtower to be their mediator. This is clearly against the bible (even the NWT), it usually shakes them up a bit - and with any luck makes them think about it later. It is usually the last time I will see that particular JW though.

The JW book with this apostate teaching in it is called "Worldwide Security Under the Prince of Peace" published in 1986 and they still do hold this teaching today. (I have a pdf copy if anyone is interested just message me) The below quote is from page 10 of this book. I have little squares of paper with this book and page number on it to hand out to them so they can go look it up themselves (JWs will not trust any outside sources of information)

"Was Moses the mediator between Jeho-vah God and mankind in general? No, he was the mediator between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the nation of their fleshly descendants. Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all man- kind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members."

 

[Strong in Him]

The next time you have Jehovah's witnesses knock on your door ask this question - it's a question asked by the apostles and see how they answer -

I find that a better question is one asked by Jesus - "who do you say that I am?"

We could get bogged down talking to JWs, or anyone else, about unessential doctrines - but only the nature of Jesus and the cross will save.
A friend of mine once invited JWs into her home. After talking with, and listening to, them for an hour or two, she asked them what they believed about the cross, and the power of the cross. I'm told they couldn't get out of there quickly enough.

 

[GingerBeer]

I like to ask them who their mediator is, most of them are unaware of the Watchtower teaching on this subject and will quote"1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" then I inform them that according to the Watchtower Jesus is only the mediator for the 144,000 and the rest of the population need the Watchtower to be their mediator. This is clearly against the bible (even the NWT), it usually shakes them up a bit - and with any luck makes them think about it later. It is usually the last time I will see that particular JW though.

The JW book with this apostate teaching in it is called "Worldwide Security Under the Prince of Peace" published in 1986 and they still do hold this teaching today. (I have a pdf copy if anyone is interested just message me) The below quote is from page 10 of this book. I have little squares of paper with this book and page number on it to hand out to them so they can go look it up themselves (JWs will not trust any outside sources of information)

"Was Moses the mediator between Jeho-vah God and mankind in general? No, he was the mediator between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the nation of their fleshly descendants. Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all man- kind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members."

Jehovah's witnesses still do teach that Jesus mediates only for the 144,000. They have a two volume book called "Insight on the Scriptures" which says under "mediator"

Those for Whom Christ Is Mediator. The apostle Paul declares that there is “one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all”—for both Jews and Gentiles. (1Ti 2:5, 6) He mediates the new covenant between God and those taken into the new covenant, the congregation of spiritual Israel. (Heb 8:10-13; 12:24; Eph 5:25-27) Christ became Mediator in order that the ones called “might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance” (Heb 9:15); he assists, not the angels, but “Abraham’s seed.” (Heb 2:16) He assists those who are to be brought into the new covenant to be ‘adopted’ into Jehovah’s household of spiritual sons; these eventually will be in heaven as Christ’s brothers, becoming a part with him of the seed of Abraham. (Ro 8:15-17, 23-25; Ga 3:29) He has transmitted to them the promised holy spirit, with which spirit they are sealed and are given a token of what is to come, their heavenly inheritance. (2Co 5:5; Eph 1:13, 14) The total number of those who are finally and permanently sealed is revealed in Revelation 7:4-8 as 144,000. [Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 p. 362]​

 

[Neostarwcc]

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses going to your door is definitely a big problem. Whenever you tell them that you don't want to join their cult (And yes, they're a cult) and are happy with being a Christian and following Jesus they still insist that you should join their cult and my wife and I have Mormons/JW's coming to our door at least every 3 months. It's just a huge problem.

I mean, I told a group of JW's one time when I was an Atheist that I was a Catholic (Since my mom was Catholic and I didn't want to admit to them that I was an Atheist because then they REALLY would have been on fire and I at that time had no interest in converting to ANY sect of Christianity) and they were like... "Yeah you need to come to our ceremony." I forget what kind of ceremony it was but the left me with a brochure about it.

But yeah... they just don't get it. To me Christians should respect other Christian's religious beliefs just because they don't fall into what our beliefs are. Just because somebody disagrees with your viewpoint doesn't make them any more or less Christian than you are. I mean yeah, they're cults but they should still be like "Okay so this person at least follows Jesus and is a Christian" to me it's the Atheists and other religious people they should be trying to convert. Not Christians because Christians already follow Jesus.

 

[Servant of Yeshua]

And do you discuss anything over the cup of coffee?

I have tried inviting them in. The pair I asked did not wish to come in (maybe safety issues?). I offered information for them to take, and they did not take it because they said that I would need to come to their home to give it to him. The pair is usually a trainer and a trainee. You can talk in Christ's love, and look directly at the trainee since you will have the better chance of getting through to their heart if the Lord permits. But, yes, exposing how their organization has changed their stance on when the end of the world is, changed on transfusions, organ replacements etc. The Bible has not changed. Pray for them. That is the best thing that we can do while we are speaking truth in love.

 

[Seadish]

The next time you have Jehovah's witnesses knock on your door ask this question - it's a question asked by the apostles and see how they answer - ask them "what are the signs that the end is coming and that the end of this world will come soon?"

And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and offerings, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in which there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And they asked him, saying, Teacher, when therefore shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when these things are about to come to pass? And he said, Take heed that ye be not led astray: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am he ; and, The time is at hand: go ye not after them. And when ye shall hear of wars and tumults, be not terrified: for these things must needs come to pass first; but the end is not immediately. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be great earthquakes, and in divers places famines and pestilences; and there shall be terrors and great signs from heaven. But before all these things, they shall lay their hands on you, and shall persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for my name’s sake. It shall turn out unto you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate beforehand how to answer: for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to withstand or to gainsay. But ye shall be delivered up even by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolk, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake. And not a hair of your head shall perish. In your patience ye shall win your souls. (Luke 21:5-19)​

See if they skip the red underlined text or gloss it over in their explanation. I have reason to suspect that they will.

I had a blast last time they knocked, invited them had my Preacher husband come home asap, they listened to him preach for two hours they not only read our Bible but the Torah. One of them actually was rethinking things pray one day she actually gets it

 

[GingerBeer]

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses going to your door is definitely a big problem. Whenever you tell them that you don't want to join their cult (And yes, they're a cult) and are happy with being a Christian and following Jesus they still insist that you should join their cult and my wife and I have Mormons/JW's coming to our door at least every 3 months. It's just a huge problem.

I mean, I told a group of JW's one time when I was an Atheist that I was a Catholic (Since my mom was Catholic and I didn't want to admit to them that I was an Atheist because then they REALLY would have been on fire and I at that time had no interest in converting to ANY sect of Christianity) and they were like... "Yeah you need to come to our ceremony." I forget what kind of ceremony it was but the left me with a brochure about it.

But yeah... they just don't get it. To me Christians should respect other Christian's religious beliefs just because they don't fall into what our beliefs are. Just because somebody disagrees with your viewpoint doesn't make them any more or less Christian than you are. I mean yeah, they're cults but they should still be like "Okay so this person at least follows Jesus and is a Christian" to me it's the Atheists and other religious people they should be trying to convert. Not Christians because Christians already follow Jesus.

Jehovah's witnesses are convinced that all the denominations are wrong and that their organisation is right. So when people say "I am a Christian and satisfied with my church" they see the Christian as a victim of "Christendom" which they call "The world empire of false religion". So they will continue to come back with their literature and the hope of making a convert or two.

 

[parousia70]

Jehovah's witnesses are convinced that all the denominations are wrong and that their organisation is right. So when people say "I am a Christian and satisfied with my church" they see the Christian as a victim of "Christendom" which they call "The world empire of false religion". So they will continue to come back with their literature and the hope of making a convert or two.

Sounds like pretty much any dispensational futurist denomination you could point to.

I do sometimes wonder why end times is such a topic of interest for them.

Indeed, JW eschatology is pure, Jack Van Impe-styled Millennialism! Wonder why that is? JW was birthed out of the endtimes madness of dispensationalist, premillennialist evangelicals of the early 1800s. Irving, Darby, and later the Baptist minister William Miller had the evangelical Church heading for the hills and selling everything in anticipation of the Lord's return. You might be familiar with the Great Disappointment of 1844, for it's recorded in many American History books.

JWs came from this environment of endtimes folly and the attendant popular view that NEW endtimes prophets were receiving NEW revelations "in the last days." At least three major cults were born out of these "new endtimes revelations." In fact, the 7th Day Adventists were birthed entirely and specifically out of the 1844 fiasco.

Without futurist millennial eschatology, none of these cults can even exist! These groups could not exist apart from their millennial, eschatological errors, and these errors were truly handed down to them by evangelicals Christians! We should even point out that most of the whacko religious movements of the 20th century were also born out of Christian, premillennial, endtimes madness. For sure, the futurist thesis of an unfulfilled and incompleted work of Christ (i.e., an incompleted eschaton) is the portal from which comes every deviant, twisted, and backwards teaching contrary to the revealed truth of Christ and the Church.

Millennialism has given birth to more cults than any other theological endtimes position. Most cults are millennialist spin-offs from evangelical christianity. The big cults are all millennialist "end-times" movements from stem to stern.