ADL Report on extremist violence

[Hank77]

The note says deaths include non-ideologically motivated killings. What the deuce? I guess that means a guy who voted Republican once could kill his neighbor over a neighborhood beef and that could be included in the stats as right-wing extremist violence? I mean, not that the left-wing ADL would do that...

But we're talking about the ADL report here. It seems clear enough.

OK. Your post above didn't sound like it.
You think it's a different definition by the ADL but the CSIS has the same statics and information.

 

[Chesterton]

OK. Your post above didn't sound like it.
You think it's a different definition by the ADL but the CSIS has the same statics and information.

I typed that post before I started reading the report. Then when I looked at the report I immediately found examples similar to what I suggested. A couple of examples:

Richard Starry shot and killed four relatives at a local nursing center and at his home in an apparent act of domestic violence before killing himself.

Demetrius Alexander Brown, a self-proclaimed Moorish sovereign citizen, was arrested for the fatal shooting of Sharmine Pack following a dispute about a vehicle sale at an auto repair shop​

 

[Hank77]

I typed that post before I started reading the report. Then when I looked at the report I immediately found examples similar to what I suggested. A couple of examples:

Richard Starry shot and killed four relatives at a local nursing center and at his home in an apparent act of domestic violence before killing himself.

Demetrius Alexander Brown, a self-proclaimed Moorish sovereign citizen, was arrested for the fatal shooting of Sharmine Pack following a dispute about a vehicle sale at an auto repair shop​

The way they make the extremist list is because of their proven associations with extremist groups, statements that they have made in social media, etc.
This is about people with extremist ideologies committing more murders than in the past, but not necessarily the motive for the murder they committed.
One could only guess if their ideology had something to do with it.

 

[Chesterton]

The way they make the extremist list is because of their proven associations with extremist groups, statements that they have made in social media, etc.
This is about people with extremist ideologies committing more murders than in the past, but not necessarily the motive for the murder they committed.

That doesn't make sense, though. Might as well keep track of violence by golfers, but if the violence has nothing to with golfing, it's not relevant. There's other funky things about the report, too, such as including the Parkland shooter, who was a mentally disturbed teenager, and counting each murder victim in that shooting which bumps up the numbers. Also bumping up the numbers is the inclusion of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooter, as if anti-semitism is exclusively right-wing.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Also bumping up the numbers is the inclusion of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooter, as if anti-semitism is exclusively right-wing.

Dude was a right wing white nationalist.

 

[SummerMadness]

I'm starting to believe the offense that a right-wing extremist is labeled right-wing is on account of the offended tend to tend label others based on the actions of a few. For instance, they might argue all Muslims are bad because of terrorist attack, as opposed to just the violent groups that follow Islam; accordingly, their logic is that all people with a right-wing ideology are bad because a violent right-wing extremist commits an act of terrorism. As a result, they're offended and complain about the labeling of right-wing extremists because they believe it somehow reflects them. Maybe you should rethink throwing your hat with all right-wingers because they're part of the right-wing. There is increasing violence right-wing extremists. Guess what? That's not you (unless you immerse yourself in that world).

 

[Ana the Ist]

Each year, ADL’s Center on Extremism (COE) tracks murders perpetrated by all types of extremists. The 2018 Murder & Extremism report provides key insights into the crimes, including motivations behind these violent attacks.

Me: Oh interesting...they included motivations.
Article: Incels are a right wing ideology.
Me: Ahhh...ok...nevermind.

Seriously, incels are a community...but there's no ideology behind the community. There's certainly no "right wing" ideology behind the community. Why are they getting added? To pad the stats?

The other thing that bugs me is they don't include honor killings in the Islamic Extremism category. It certainly seems like they should be in there...unless the argument is that honor killings are a part of mainstream Islamic ideology and not extremist.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Was perusing the report. They label "incels" and "sovereign citizens" as automatic right-wing. This sounds like biased nonsense.

It would also be easy to include all the incidents in the report, instead of highlighting a few that are to their liking.

Sovereign citizens tend to consider themselves libertarian from what I remember...the only solid connection to right wing ideology is they're both small government lol.

The incel thing is pretty stupid though. It's not an ideology....it's more of a self help group lol. Seriously though, I don't see how they make that connection.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm starting to believe the offense that a right-wing extremist is labeled right-wing is on account of the offended tend to tend label others based on the actions of a few.

Any chance you could take a second run at this sentence? I've read it 4 times now and still no idea what you're saying.

For instance, they might argue all Muslims are bad because of terrorist attack, as opposed to just the violent groups that follow Islam;

The violent groups that follow Islam?

That's the most roundabout way of saying "muslims" I've ever seen.

accordingly, their logic is that all people with a right-wing ideology are bad because a violent right-wing extremist commits an act of terrorism. As a result, they're offended and complain about the labeling of right-wing extremists because they believe it somehow reflects them. Maybe you should rethink throwing your hat with all right-wingers because they're part of the right-wing.

Well it's a good thing you're here to shoot down arguments that no one made.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I typed that post before I started reading the report. Then when I looked at the report I immediately found examples similar to what I suggested. A couple of examples:

Richard Starry shot and killed four relatives at a local nursing center and at his home in an apparent act of domestic violence before killing himself.

Demetrius Alexander Brown, a self-proclaimed Moorish sovereign citizen, was arrested for the fatal shooting of Sharmine Pack following a dispute about a vehicle sale at an auto repair shop​

As far as I can tell....if you looked up an extremist website before you killed someone...you're an extremist of that particular ideology.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That doesn't make sense, though. Might as well keep track of violence by golfers, but if the violence has nothing to with golfing, it's not relevant. There's other funky things about the report, too, such as including the Parkland shooter, who was a mentally disturbed teenager, and counting each murder victim in that shooting which bumps up the numbers. Also bumping up the numbers is the inclusion of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooter, as if anti-semitism is exclusively right-wing.

There's definitely some stat padding going on. I think most of these are legit...but 10-20% are pretty shaky. There's a narrative to chase here though...

It's hard to paint right wing extremism as dangerous if the most common tactic they use is posting flyers at liberal colleges. You have a party that's trying to open borders, impinge on free speech, and oust a president who they associate with white supremacy.

They had to pad the stats to get to 50 deaths....and that's basically a slow weekend in downtown Chicago. It hardly justifies the constant outrage and fear mongering going on.

 

[JosephZ]

It's hard to paint right wing extremism as dangerous if the most common tactic they use is posting flyers at liberal colleges.

Right-wing extremists are doing more than posting flyers.

https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START_ECDB_IslamistFarRightHomicidesUS_Infographic_Feb2017.pdf

They had to pad the stats to get to 50 deaths....and that's basically a slow weekend in downtown Chicago. It hardly justifies the constant outrage and fear mongering going on.

The increase in right-wing extremism is something to be concerned about. Just a few months ago we had this incident which killed 11 people. 11 confirmed dead, suspect in custody after Pittsburgh synagogue attack Unfortunately it's just a matter of time before we see another similar attack or something even more extreme like the Oklahoma City bombing carried out by right-wing extremists.

Here are some recent examples of right-wing extremist activities.

4 charged with plot to bomb Muslim community of Islamberg in upstate NY
3 Men Sentenced in Plot to Bomb Somali Immigrants in Kansas
Minnesota mosque bombers plead guilty

 

[Ana the Ist]

Right-wing extremists are doing more than posting flyers.

View attachment 250299
https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START_ECDB_IslamistFarRightHomicidesUS_Infographic_Feb2017.pdf

That's over 15 years...

The increase in right-wing extremism is something to be concerned about.

Why? You have about 200 deaths in 15 years. By comparison...in those same 15 years, lightning strikes killed 750 people (about 50 people annually).

I'm over 3 times more likely to die from lightning than a right wing extremist.

Raise the alarm when it's as dangerous as slipping and falling in the bathroom lol...I promise I'll show more concern then.

 

[JosephZ]

That's over 15 years...

I'm over 3 times more likely to die from lightning than a right wing extremist.

Raise the alarm when it's as dangerous as slipping and falling in the bathroom lol...I promise I'll show more concern then.

Are you concerned about Islamic extremism in the US? If so, why aren't you also concerned about right-wing extremism?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Are you concerned about Islamic extremism in the US?

No.

 

[JosephZ]

No.

From some of your past posts, it seems that you are concerned about Islamic extremism, in fact you said it was a "legitimate concern."

Well you would agree that over the last 3-4 decades...we've seen an increase in terror attacks by muslims in the west, right? I think that's pretty much undeniable...correct?

While I can understand that you'd look at the attacks which are successful and think "well a few people got killed...but not as many as die every day from diabetes!" and view terrorism as a relatively small problem...what about those attacks which have failed?

Al Qaeda’s Pursuit of Weapons of Mass Destruction

While it's easy to look at the small scale attacks and think it's a small problem...they only need to be successful with one large scale attack and it's the end of your society. That is their goal...it's not to just murder a few people a few times a year.

That seems significant enough to be a legitimate concern.

I know there's been something on the order of several dozen terrorist plots which law enforcement has stopped in the past ten years, and of course, that doesn't count the successful ones...it's far more dangerous than school shootings.

I really can't stress this enough...yes, it's a problem, it's a big big problem. It's not fake, it's not made up...there's a large network of muslim radicals out there who want you, your nation, and everyone in it dead. They want your way of life destroyed. They want to replace it with their relatively awful Islamic way of life. It's not stopping...it's not going away...it's actually getting worse?

I totally understand that you're more concerned about drunk drivers...but everyone in the U.S. can drive drunk tonight and there's still a U.S. tomorrow. If one Islamic terrorist gets his hands on an active smallpox culture...then the end of your society begins the next day. Yes it's a legitimate concern.

 

[Ana the Ist]

From some of your past posts, it seems that you are concerned about Islamic extremism, in fact you said it was a "legitimate concern."

The article was about extremist violence in the US.

In the posts you're quoting, I'm clearly referencing Islamic attacks worldwide. I even have a link to an article about how Al Qaeda was trying to acquire weapons of mass destruction

Don't take my posts out of context.

 

[SummerMadness]

Are you concerned about Islamic extremism in the US? If so, why aren't you also concerned about right-wing extremism?

One would think we should focus on the thing that's the bigger issue, but it's easy to point as Muslim extremism because it's easy to discriminate against Muslims, it is not so when it comes to right-wing extremists because using the same tactics touted means that the target will be white males by and large.

 

[JosephZ]

The article was about extremist violence in the US.

In the posts you're quoting, I'm clearly referencing Islamic attacks worldwide. I even have a link to an article about how Al Qaeda was trying to acquire weapons of mass destruction

Don't take my posts out of context.

They weren't taken out of context. You obviously have a concern about Islamic extremism in the US and you are also concerned about Islamic extremists acquiring weapons of mass destruction and using against western countries like the US. If you read the thread that they were quoted from, it becomes even more clear that you are concerned about Islamic extremism in the US. There are also several other threads that I could have taken quotes from that would show this as well.

My reason for asking the original question was because it seems you have a double standard when it comes to right-wing extremists and Islamic extremists and I was just wondering why you are so quick to discount the treat posed by right-wing extremism in the US.

 

[Ana the Ist]

They weren't taken out of context.

So you're saying that a discussion about the activities of a global terrorist network that is trying to acquire weapons of mass destruction...

...and some kids who posted on a white supremacist website before shooting someone are the same thing?