No Compromise at the Border.

[Speedwell]

Illegal entry doesn't come through the ports of entry.

So it's the illegal entry itself that bothers you, not the fact that people stay illegally?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So it's the illegal entry itself that bothers you, not the fact that people stay illegally?

Different problem. Bailing water out of a sinking boat is one problem. Plugging the leak is another.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Border Patrol agents and sector chiefs rarely requested a “wall.”

Less than one-half of 1 percent of the solutions Border Patrol agents and sector chiefs proposed for closing capability gaps along the southwest border in FY 2017 referenced a “wall.”

Border Security: Analysis of Vulnerabilities Identified by Frontline Agents

Overlooked in your comments is the fact that these agents and section chiefs reveal that nearly one-third of the 'gaps' mentioned could use a fence. So while the term for a barrier is only mentioned scantily it is in relation to hundreds of gaps that need attention.

 

[JosephZ]

Plugging the leak is another.

The biggest leak isn't at our border with Mexico.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Different problem. Bailing water out of a sinking boat is one problem. Plugging the leak is another.

But most illegal immigrants arrive legally and then overstay visas. How does a wall help with that?

Also:
What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

And, as for the survey that showed border agents wanting a wall, what they actually found was this:
“they overwhelmingly supported adding a “wall system” in strategic locations” [emphasis mine]
Border Patrol agents back Trump wall, survey finds
So the headline is a bit misleading. These agents actually support something closer to what Democrats supported in 2006 and 2013 than to what Trump is demanding now.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

But most illegal immigrants arrive legally and then overstay visas. How does a wall help with that?

The same way that bailing helps plug the leak.

And, as for the survey that showed border agents wanting a wall, what they actually found was this:
“they overwhelmingly supported adding a “wall system” in strategic locations” [emphasis mine]
Border Patrol agents back Trump wall, survey finds
So the headline is a bit misleading. These agents actually support something closer to what Democrats supported in 2006 and 2013 than to what Trump is demanding now.

Then fund what was already approved. The border authorities will decide what best to do with the money.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

The same way that bailing helps plug the leak.



Then fund what was already approved. The border authorities will decide what best to do with the money.

I do not think you understand where the biggest leak is...

So let the authorities weigh in with specifics. Trump hasn’t even justifies how he came to the $5 billion price tag.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I do not think you understand where the biggest leak is...

Of course I do. That's not what the discussion is about.

So let the authorities weigh in with specifics. Trump hasn’t even justifies how he came to the $5 billion price tag.

Ask the border authorities how much money they need. That should clear it up.

 

[Speedwell]

The same way that bailing helps plug the leak.

Right. Bailing doesn't help plug the leak. Plugging the leak helps plug the leak.

Trump and his fanbase want a 35-foot monolithic concrete wall on the border. They don't care about visa overstays. They don't care about cracking down on employers of illegals. They don't care about drugs being smuggled in through legal ports of entry. They appear not to care what happens at the Canadian border at all. I think they believe that only white people sneak in that way.

All they seem to want to do is stop poor Latino peasants. That's why many of us are convinced that the Great wall of Trump is nothing but a monument to nativist bigotry.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Of course I do. That's not what the discussion is about.



Ask the border authorities how much money they need. That should clear it up.

Yes - ask the border authorities what they need and why. But, Trump isn’t doing that. Or, if he is, he is keeping the details to himself.

And, where illegals come from (illegal crossing vs overstaying visas) is crucial to the conversation. If the overall goal is to reduce illegal immigration, then resources should be directed at how they are getting in and strategies devised to address those problems.

Trump is doing neither. He got lots of cheers when he said “wall” on the campaign trail. He needs more of that type of affirmation and he needs to distract from the Russia investigation.

 

[Speedwell]

Yes - ask the border authorities what they need and why. But, Trump isn’t doing that. Or, if he is, he is keeping the details to himself.

And, where illegals come from (illegal crossing vs overstaying visas) is crucial to the conversation. If the overall goal is to reduce illegal immigration, then resources should be directed at how they are getting in and strategies devised to address those problems.

Trump is doing neither. He got lots of cheers when he said “wall” on the campaign trail. He needs more of that type of affirmation and he needs to distract from the Russia investigation.

The overall goal is not to reduce illegal immigration. It is to reduce the immigration, legal and otherwise. of poor, brown Roman Catholic people.

That's why the amnesty caravans are so frightening to the Trumpies. Ordinary illegals can be easily deported, but asylum seekers have rights, and we might have to let some of them in.

 

[GlabrousDory4]

Asks the guy who studies data and statistics bassackward.

Ummmm, pardon me? You don't know what I do, so why would you suggest that? Are you INTENTIONALLY asking me to report this as a flame? Or do you just randomly insult folks?

Wow. What a piece of work.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Right. Bailing doesn't help plug the leak. Plugging the leak helps plug the leak.

Good. You get the point.

Trump and his fanbase want a 35-foot monolithic concrete wall on the border. They don't care about visa overstays. They don't care about cracking down on employers of illegals. They don't care about drugs being smuggled in through legal ports of entry. They appear not to care what happens at the Canadian border at all. I think they believe that only white people sneak in that way.

I'm a big fan, but I want a 24/7/365 guarded fence, not a concrete wall.

All they seem to want to do is stop poor Latino peasants. That's why many of us are convinced that the Great wall of Trump is nothing but a monument to nativist bigotry.

There's some truth there. I believe we should all speak English, which is the language of America.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yes - ask the border authorities what they need and why. But, Trump isn’t doing that. Or, if he is, he is keeping the details to himself.

And, where illegals come from (illegal crossing vs overstaying visas) is crucial to the conversation. If the overall goal is to reduce illegal immigration, then resources should be directed at how they are getting in and strategies devised to address those problems.

Trump is doing neither. He got lots of cheers when he said “wall” on the campaign trail. He needs more of that type of affirmation and he needs to distract from the Russia investigation.

He is addressing those other issues, but the focus at the moment is on the wall/fence/barrier. It's the sticking point.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ummmm, pardon me? You don't know what I do, so why would you suggest that? Are you INTENTIONALLY asking me to report this as a flame? Or do you just randomly insult folks?

Wow. What a piece of work.

I'm speaking from my own experience studying data and statistics. Reread your own post.

Do you want to compare insults between you and I? Your problem is that you, and many here, hurl insults without even realizing it. Whyzat I wonder? Let me guess. Anyone who disagree with you, or holds a different opinion from yours naturally deserves to be insulted...with impunity.

If I reported every nasty thing (what I call 'softball' ad homs) said to me by those who disagree with me that's all I would be doing here.

 

[Speedwell]

There's some truth there. I believe we should all speak English, which is the language of America.

OWG, that is soooo tempting. But I'm in a good mood this morning, and I don't want to get banned for an honest response, anyway.

 

[Speedwell]

He is addressing those other issues, but the focus at the moment is on the wall/fence/barrier. It's the sticking point.

No he isn't. He hires illegals himself.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

OWG, that is soooo tempting. But I'm in a good mood this morning, and I don't want to get banned for an honest response, anyway.

I agree. I often have to temper my responses as well.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No he isn't. He hires illegals himself.

No doubt he has hired illegals in the past. I've likely rented to illegals...so shoot me.

 

[Speedwell]

No doubt he has hired illegals in the past. I've likely rented to illegals...so shoot me.

I may have as well. I know I've had illegals in my ESL and vocational classes, but I don't care. It's the people who make the most noise about it as should avoid doing things like that.