CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

yeshuaslavejeff

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" Featured CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? "
No.


Hello all. Thought this would be an interesting topic for discussion. How can you have God's GRACE if there is not LAW that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL? If we do not KNOW that we are all sinners how can we see our need of a Saviour?

According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. If we do not know we are sick why would we seek a physician?

HOW CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IF WE HAVE NO LAW AND NO KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT SIN IS OR THE PENALTY OF SIN?

..............

*FRIENDLY DISCUSSION PLEASE; PLEASE PROVIDE SCRIPTURE FOR YOUR CLAIMS

God bless you all :wave:
 
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W2L

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It's I discovered about a week ago:
Hebrews 8:6
Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises.

Hebrews 8:8
But God found fault with the people and said: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.






The great commission is not for me. Others have that gift.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
I already said i wasn't referring to evangelism. Its strange that you quote Gods commands given by the apostles, in order to prove those commands are obsolete. Wouldn't that make obsolete the command to obey mans law?. You embrace one part of the apostles commands but not the rest.
 
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SkyWriting

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I already said i wasn't referring to evangelism. Its strange that you quote Gods commands given by the apostles, in order to prove those commands are obsolete. Wouldn't that make obsolete the command to obey mans law?. You embrace one part of the apostles commands but not the rest.

Because I am convinced the Apostles did not wear haloes. :holy:
They were just people. Paul made clear that he was the chief
of all sinners and that he did not do what he knew was right.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I already said i wasn't referring to evangelism. Its strange that you quote Gods commands given by the apostles, in order to prove those commands are obsolete. Wouldn't that make obsolete the command to obey mans law?. You embrace one part of the apostles commands but not the rest.
Skyw has admitted, freely, he doesn't accept God's Word concerning perversion being sin and is judged by God.
Apparently Skyw has neighbors he likes that are perverts (he posted a year or more ago, on this or other forums) , and he things that's just fine - as if no need to repent to be saved. (denying the Gospel, in other words)
 
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W2L

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Because I am convinced the Apostles did not wear haloes. :holy:
They were just people.
But Jesus gave them authority to teach us. So their command is His, and if you say their doctrine isnt sound you say His doctrine isnt sound. You are saying he doesnt wear a halo.

But then you go on to quote them to support your assertion that Gods law is replaced by mans law! Why are you quoting the apostle paul? You said his commands are obsolete.
 
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SkyWriting

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Skyw has admitted, freely, he doesn't accept God's Word concerning perversion being sin and is judged by God.
Apparently Skyw has neighbors he likes that are perverts (he posted a year or more ago, on this or other forums) , and he things that's just fine - as if no need to repent to be saved. (denying the Gospel, in other words)
God sees a man heart and does not wear your glasses doing it.
Those who do not live by the law are not judged by it.
It's not my job to point out the sins of others, especially non-believers.
And my beliefs have changed dramatically in the last month or so
when I discovered this:

Hebrews 8:6
Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises.

Hebrews 8:8
But God found fault with the people and said: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

I am WAY in left field now, as scripture dictates.
 
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YeshuaFan

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It's something I discovered about a week ago while battling with a "person of Hate". I don't recall if it was hatred for women in authority or of same sex marriage, or abortion issues.

Hebrews 8:6
Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises.

Hebrews 8:8
But God found fault with the people and said: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.






The great commission is not for me. Others have that gift.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

So if ones religious ideas are in opposition to the law, then they are misguided on God's requests for us.
I am one who does not support either abortion, gay marriage, nor women as pastors, not because of hatred, but due to the scriptures prohibits that stuff!
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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God sees a man heart and does not wear your glasses doing it.
Those who do not live by the law are not judged by it.
Yahweh knows every thought of man's heart, and judges it according to His Word ...
He Has Clearly Shown in Scripture, All Scripture,
what happens to those hearts that are full of perversion (He Says He Hates those whose hearts are fully perverse).
HE is the JUDGE, and HE is RIGHT, RIGHTEOUS, and CORRECT.
 
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YeshuaFan

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But Jesus gave them authority to teach us. So their command is His, and if you say their doctrine isnt sound you say His doctrine isnt sound. You are saying he doesnt wear a halo.

But then you go on to quote them to support your assertion that Gods law is replaced by mans law! Why are you quoting the apostle paul? You said his commands are obsolete.
When any Apostle wrote or spoke concerning theology , that was as if Jesus Himself spoke to us!
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Proverbs 11:20 The perverse in heart are an abomination ... - Bible Hub

https://biblehub.com/proverbs/11-20.htm

The LORD detests those whose hearts are perverse, but he delights in those whose ways are blameless. New Living ... The LORD hates sneaky people, but he likes everyone who lives right. .... Strong's Hebrew 8549: Entire, integrity, truth
Proverbs 17:20 The one with a perverse heart finds no good, and he ...

https://biblehub.com/proverbs/17-20.htm

One whose heart is corrupt does not prosper; one whose tongue is perverse falls into trouble. ... It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. ... The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I ...
 
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YeshuaFan

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Because I am convinced the Apostles did not wear haloes. :holy:
They were just people. Paul made clear that he was the chief
of all sinners and that he did not do what he knew was right.
He knew that he was a sinner saved by Grace of God, but also knew that Jesus commissioned Him to be a n Apostle, so whatever Paul spoke to us about, has the very same authority as if Jesus was speaking!
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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When any Apostle wrote or spoke concerning theology , that was as if Jesus Himself spoke to us!
Well, not "theology" as used since then through today.

But EVERY WORD was and is to be as from the Father in heaven, and every deed, every action, as from the Father in heaven, same as Jesus Lived, same as Jesus taught.
 
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SkyWriting

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But Jesus gave them authority to teach us. So their command is His, and if you say their doctrine isnt sound you say His doctrine isnt sound. You are saying he doesnt wear a halo.

But then you go on to quote them to support your assertion that Gods law is replaced by mans law! Why are you quoting the apostle paul? You said his commands are obsolete.
Why do you keep blaming me for what is written, not by me?

Deuteronomy 29:14
I am making this covenant and this oath not only with you,

Jeremiah 31:31
Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

Luke 22:20
In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you.

2 Corinthians 3:6
And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Hebrews 7:22
Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

Hebrews 8:6
Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises.

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 12:24
to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. ...

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

1 Timothy 2:1-3
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,

Psalm 22:28
For kingship belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations.

Romans 13:7
Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Deuteronomy 16:18-20
“You shall appoint judges and officers in all your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment. You shall not pervert justice. You shall not show partiality, and you shall not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and subverts the cause of the righteous. Justice, and only justice, you shall follow, that you may live and inherit the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

Romans 13:4
For he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will.

Proverbs 8:15
By me kings reign, and rulers decree what is just;
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Why do you keep blaming me for what is written, not by me?
It is not us who blame you.
God's Word judges you, as Jesus says.

I realize, in part, that you have many (health?) or other problems you may have mentioned in the past.
Giving up "support" when it is ungodly, or beliefs, that are ungodly, is necessary for life, in Jesus.

Jesus told the disciples (and Apostles): I KNOW you don't know how to live - come to ME(Jesus), and I will train you. (always perfectly in line with all of Yahweh's Word, Plan and Purpose in Jesus).
 
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W2L

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Why do you keep blaming me for what is written, not by me?

Deuteronomy 29:14
I am making this covenant and this oath not only with you,

Jeremiah 31:31
Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

Luke 22:20
In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you.

2 Corinthians 3:6
And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Hebrews 7:22
Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

Hebrews 8:6
Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises.

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 12:24
to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
You say the apostle pauls commands are obsolete, replaced by mans laws, but you are quoting Pauls commands to prove your assertion?. Do you think Paul was telling the Romans to obey Cesar but not Him?
 
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SkyWriting

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You say the apostle pauls commands are obsolete, replaced by mans laws, but you are quoting Pauls commands to prove your assertion?. Do you think Paul was telling the Romans to obey Cesar but not Him?

That would be right, if he did that. Jesus did submit to the authorities. That seems to place the full authority of God in the governments hands. Just as Jesus stated at His trial.
 
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YeshuaFan

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You say the apostle pauls commands are obsolete, replaced by mans laws, but you are quoting Pauls commands to prove your assertion?. Do you think Paul was telling the Romans to obey Cesar but not Him?
When paul spoke or wrote anything concerning theology, doctrines, morals it was as if Jesus was speaking Himself!
 
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