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LDS Is this false prophecy or can it be explained?

Is this a typical false prophecy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 92.3%
  • No

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Total voters
    13
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Peter1000

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No but adding and removing from a prophecy in the manner of his commentary afterwards shows that he does not understand prophecy nor respects God like a prophet should. Which is perfectly fine if the prophecy was received from a false spirit.

Can you tell me what he added or removed from the prophecy afterwards? I am not following you. Thank you.

We if he did understand the millennium then that makes it even worse for him to suggest that Jesus would appear before the millennium. That would definitely show he is a false prophet in my mind attempting to deceive people with lies.

Does anyone understand the millenium and when it is to occur? No. Neither did JS. That is why he asked the Lord. It is the Lord that told him that "if he lived to be 85, he would see the millenium". Well, he did not live to be 85, so the millenium had to be after 1891 per JS prophecy, which is true. Prophecy fulfilled truthfully. Since the millenium has not occurred yet, it is certainly after 1891, and JS said that it would not be any sooner than 1891. It wasn't, so prophecy fulfilled truthfully. Show me where I am wrong.

You're feelings deceive you then, I have been waiting for a valid explanation to the suspicious nature of this prophecy. I think the closest you got was to say that Joseph Smith's death stopped his predicted millennium. Although that's hard to believe also since it was over one persons death. Which is probably of little consequence in the big picture, I mean to say the LDS church continued without him just fine.

We have given you a valid explanation a few times now, you must not be reading our posts. This is not suspicious, it is straight forward. "If you live to be 85 you will see the second coming of the Savior. JS also said, the second coming would be "no sooner" than 1891. He was right, prophecy fulfilled truthfully.

Ask yourself, did the second coming come before 1891, no. Will it come after 1891, yes. JS is right then, not suspicious, just straight forward. Tell me where I am wrong.
 
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Peter1000

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How the "prophecy appears to reflect a bending of reality" is a summation of . . . false logic?

The prophecy is conditioned on "if", not anyone's presupposition.

You are right, lots of people miss that "if". That conditions the entire prophecy. You don't know how many people say to me, JS prophecied that the second coming was to happen in 1891. Since it did not he is a false prophet. Well it is that they just did not read the prophcey, and missed the "if". Thanks for letting us know that you did not.
 
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Peter1000

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I am no follower of JSJr. or the latter day restoration, but I do follow logic and the meaning of words. Peter1000 has the right of the discussion.
Thank you, I sometimes wonder if I am not out of my mind, because everyone I discuss this with on the CF will not give, what I think is logical answers. This one seems fairly straight forward to me anyway.
 
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devin553344

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Can you tell me what he added or removed from the prophecy afterwards? I am not following you. Thank you.



Does anyone understand the millenium and when it is to occur? No. Neither did JS. That is why he asked the Lord. It is the Lord that told him that "if he lived to be 85, he would see the millenium". Well, he did not live to be 85, so the millenium had to be after 1891 per JS prophecy, which is true. Prophecy fulfilled truthfully. Since the millenium has not occurred yet, it is certainly after 1891, and JS said that it would not be any sooner than 1891. It wasn't, so prophecy fulfilled truthfully. Show me where I am wrong.



We have given you a valid explanation a few times now, you must not be reading our posts. This is not suspicious, it is straight forward. "If you live to be 85 you will see the second coming of the Savior. JS also said, the second coming would be "no sooner" than 1891. He was right, prophecy fulfilled truthfully.

Ask yourself, did the second coming come before 1891, no. Will it come after 1891, yes. JS is right then, not suspicious, just straight forward. Tell me where I am wrong.

We clearly disagree and see different things. I'll leave it at that.

It's clear that the way you're interpreting this prophecy is similar to how Joseph Smith taught his followers to interpret the bible. And that method of interpretation in my opinion is what lead to the errors made by the LDS church in theology.

I think that is what is clear to me.
 
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Peter1000

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Why would anyone pray earnestly to know the time of the 2nd coming when Jesus said even he didn't know---seems like that is wanting to know more than Jesus does. If God chose to not tell Jesus, who is any man that He should divulge that to?

"15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter."

As someone else already mentioned, God's prophecies are never dependent on the shortcomings of one single man. Stephen was stoned, didn't keep things from happening as God intended. At the same time, some of God's prophecies are dependent on the faithfulness of a people, or some other act. God does then say "if"--clearly, there is an "if" here.
The question asked of God was as to the time of His coming. So the answer has to be dependent on that "if" qualifier, which is JS living to 85. So what this is saying is that if JS lives to 85, he will see the face of God--I am sorry but that makes no sense at all. It doesn't answer the question asked. It doesn't even say that JS would see the 2nd coming, just that he would see the face of God. This in no way means that He will see him when JS is 85- but means he has to live to 85--sometime in his 85th year he would see His face. It still is not a date for the 2nd coming.
What really doesn't make any sense either is that JS has to be alive past 85 to see His face---no matter what age we are at our death--at the resurrection everyone that is saved will see the face of God at His 2nd coming. Everyone. Those that do not see that 2nd coming are the lost---the living lost are destroyed at His 2nd coming, and the dead wicked remain dead until after the 1000 years. Technically, if this prophecy were of God, this could easily be interpreted to mean that if JS doesn't live to 85--he will never see the face of God at that 2nd coming, because he will be amongst the lost. And, according to JS--he had already seen the face of God in his visions.
If this were of God it also means that Mormonism would have had to go throughout all the world by JS's 85th birthday. Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The end will come when God sees fit--it is not dependent on any one individual living to a certain age. God has that event already set even before Jesus came into this world.

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God is always right on time. Basically, this is a nonsense prediction of nothing.

I think you are on the right track. The words of the Lord seem to make JS think about it.
But JS final conclusion was that the second coming would be no sooner than 1891.

Well, as it turns out, JS was right. I really don't see this as a prophecy, because you are right, nobody knows the day or the time that Jesus returns to reign. At the time of his death and resurrection, Jesus did not even know. He may know now, but is certainly not going to tell a man that information, even his prophet. And that prophets life or death is certainly not going to be the trigger that brings Jesus the second time.

It is interesting that when Jesus comes the second time, it will be at a time that the world will surround Israel and 2 prophets of Jesus will be slain, and in 3 days will be resurrected and then the Son of Man will come in all his glory. He will save Israel and set up his kingdom on earth and will reign forever.
 
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JacobKStarkey

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Peter1000, once again, takes the argument above.

I have always been clear, mmksparbud, what I think about the prophecy of this OP. The conditional nature of it completely alleviates the possibility of it being false because it did not happen.

Devin has every right to opine what God would do or not do, but that it is only Devin's opinion and nonbinding on anyone.
 
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St. Helens

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MOD HAT ON
Thread closed at request of OP
And a reminder:
Debates are only between orthodox Christian members and members of the specific non-Christian religion or faith being challenged.
not between Orthodox Christians.

MOD HAT OFF
 
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