Approaches to Eschatology

[YeshuaFan]

The history and archaeology of the Jewish war and the destruction of the physical temple in 70. AD proves the point already.

As for grammar "this generation" means "this generation"

If we refuse to acknowledge. The rules of grammar and linguistics. Then all the sounds coming out of our mouths are. Just so much gibberish and Babel.

This generation would be the Jewish race, and those still alive at the time of the second coming , as Revelation describes the events right before second coming event!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Matthew 24:30 = Matthew 25:31
"son of man coming in glory"

The first reference comes from the first part of the Olivet Discourse, which appears to be talking about the 70. AD judgment of Jerusalem.

Yet the second verse. Comes from the second part of the Olivet Discourse, which is obviously talking about final judgment. And eternity. Matthew 25:46

So it does appear like the Olivet discourse. is? United. In. Discussing a single coming event. Seemingly associated with both the destruction of the temple. And. Final judgment.

Very confusing. The physical temple was destroyed in 70ad But it's hard to identify the final judgment unto. Eternal. Judgment. In the same event.

Full preterism is a heresy, as it denies the second coming as a future event, and denies physical bodily resurrection!

 

[YeshuaFan]

The Jewish war lasted 7 years. 3.5 years into the conflict. Jerusalem was sacked the physical temple was destroyed. And. The Pagan Emperor Titus. And the Romans carried out Pagan rituals on the Temple Mount.

There has been no antichrist that was slain by Jesus at His second coming, as there has been NO second coming yet!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Yes, everything AFTER Matthew 24:35. Refers to the future, Physical Second coming of Christ at the end of earth time at final judgment.

TEMPLE DESTRUCTION AND FINAL JUDGMENT (1)

the [Olivet] Discourse opens with a prophecy of judgment against the Temple in AD 70, which ends the old covenant era, but then shifts to the Final Judgment of the world, which ends the new covenant era (and history itself).

The Great tribulation will be worldwide, under Antichrist, and it shall be immediately followed by the second coming event, with all saved physically resurrected by Jesus, not happened as of yet!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Full preterism is a heresy, as it denies the second coming as a future event, and denies physical bodily resurrection!

Partial Preterism isn't...........



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[YeshuaFan]

If you are "preMil", how do you explain the judgement of the sheep and goats at His return in Matthew 25:31-46, and Christ returning "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and Christ judging both the living and the dead at His appearing in 2 Timothy 4:1, and "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18?

Because Christ returns in both Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19, we know the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

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I take the first resurrection of JUST the redeemed as being at time of second coming, and the Great white throne judgment of just the lost after 1000 years reign of Christ!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Partial Preterism isn't...........



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True, but if one holds that all things happened in AD 70, is that not the full version?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

True, but if one holds that all things happened in AD 70, is that not the full version?

No........One can view both the Olivet Discourse and Revelation as partially fulfilled........At least that is my understanding...........
They even have a safe house on this board

The Partial Preterist Non-Pre-Mid-Trib-Post-Trib Rapture Believers Safe House

I'm starting a safe house for Partial Preterist eschatology since there isn't one yet. Feel free to post all your Partial Preterism studies or reflections here.

No Dispensationalism. No Darbyites. No Post, Mid, or Pre-trib anything. In fact, let's just not even use the word 'Trib' here please. It's as sickening as people who say 'devo' for Devotional. This is a Partial Preterist safe house. This is not a Full Preterist safe house, however. Do not confuse Partial Preterism (Historical Preterism) is Full Preterism (Hyper-Preterism).

The Lady Elect who dwells in the midst of Babylon, along with all her children, bids you welcome.

Members who chose to participate in this safe house should be partial preterists. This thread is for discussing end time events and prophecy (Biblical) from a partial preterists point of view. Fellowship posts from all members are welcome.

• This safe house thread is for those members who believe in the partial preterism.

• The safe house is for discussion and not for debate. Debate is defined as: "Engaging in argument by discussing opposing points."

• If a topic turns into a debate then staff will split the debate off into a new thread.

• Members who do not believe in partial preterism may post in fellowship only.

• No posts from this safe house may be quoted in other threads or used to start discussion threads in the main Eschatology forum.

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[YeshuaFan]

No........One can view both the Olivet Discourse and Revelation as partially fulfilled........At least that is my understanding...........
They even have a safe house on this board

The Partial Preterist Non-Pre-Mid-Trib-Post-Trib Rapture Believers Safe House





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Once they get to where the second coming actually happened in AD 70, and that there is no future physical resurrection, that would be sliding off into house of heresy!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Erik Nelson said: ↑
Yes, everything AFTER Matthew 24:35. Refers to the future, Physical Second coming of Christ at the end of earth time at final judgment.

The Great tribulation will be worldwide, under Antichrist, and it shall be immediately followed by the second coming event, with all saved physically resurrected by Jesus, not happened as of yet!

I can't answer for Erik, but I myself really don't see it as worldwide..........
Just on the Jews in Israel, Judea and Jerusalem.........
me being a gentile in the US 2000 yrs later, why should I be concerned about it?

Matthew 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
Matthew 24
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.
16 then those in Judea -- let them flee to the mounts;
Mark 13
1 And He going forth out of the Temple, one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings”
14 then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains;

Luke 13:34
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her
Luke 21
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple, that to goodly stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>
21 then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains; and those in her midst, let them depart out; and those in the countries, let them not come in to her;
22 That days of vengeance these are, of the to be fulfilled all the having been written, .
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be Great Distress in the land and wrath upon this people.

Mat 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers!
Who warned you to flee from the being about wrath to come?
Luk 3:7
Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the being wrath to come?

I saw this movie when it first came out and I could picture parents getting home and looking to see if their sons had the 666 mark on their scalp......interesting movie

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[keras]

I can't answer for Erik, but I myself really don't see it as worldwide..........
Just on the Jews in Israel, Judea and Jerusalem.........
me being a gentile in the US 2000 yrs later, why should I be concerned about it?

Many prophesies tell us that the whole world will be affected in the end times. Isaiah 24:1-20, +
As for thinking you're safe holed up in the USA, read Isaiah 18 and Jeremiah 50:27, America; the modern Babylon.

 

[BABerean2]

I take the first resurrection of JUST the redeemed as being at time of second coming, and the Great white throne judgment of just the lost after 1000 years reign of Christ!

How do you get the above to agree with the words of Christ in John 5:27-30, and with the other passages I gave you?

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[BABerean2]

Ahhh.....you talk about the Two Peoples of God doctrine....Thanks for reminding me....must be a senior moment, sorry.
Are you then a Preterist, Historicist, or other? Do you view any of the Olivet Discourse and/or Revelation as fulfilled? Thanks
[gotta love the search function]

Approaches to Eschatology
December 26, 2018 • 139 posts • 1396 views
Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum

#51 - BABerean2
See Colossians 2:16-17) Unlike Dispensational Theology, we actually can see the fact that Jesus fulfilled Jeremiah 31:31-34, at Calvary. We can see the word "now" in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18. We can see the word "church" in ...

Pre-Tribulation Rapture Refuted with Scripture
December 16, 2018 • 343 posts • 3803 views
Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum

#217 - BABerean2
the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart, and its pretrib removal of the Church falls ...
2 results in this thread

Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?
December 10, 2018 • 643 posts • 12524 views
Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum

#505 - BABerean2
Based on Acts chapter 2, the Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church". The statement is the Dispensationalists method of twisting reality to make their Two Peoples of God doctrine work. Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the ...

What Did The ECF Believe About End Times
November 28, 2018 • 127 posts • 1487 views
Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum

#125 - BABerean2
Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8. Otherwise, your Two Peoples of God doctrine would fall apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with ...




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I am a member of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ, which was established during the first century.

I do not wish to be placed inside of any other box.

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[BABerean2]

What you should do is post a video... Or amend your screen name info to say "non-dispensationalist".

If I do change my screen name, will you change yours to say you are a Dispensationalist?

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[Douggg]

If I do change my screen name, will you change yours to say you are a Dispensationalist?

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uh, no, because I am not a dispensationalist. You say you are a non-dispensationalist, so you should update you screen name information and remove the newbie tag.

You should also add New Covenant theology, imo. You might prefer New Covenant Church.

Look at Keras screen- name, he puts information about himself, that he thinks is important for others to know about him.

It is not hard to do.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I am a member of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ, which was established during the first century.

I do not wish to be placed inside of any other box.
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Sounds like my kinda Church! Amen!

Isaiah 42:9
Behold, the former things have come to pass,
And new things I declare;
Before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
Isaiah 43:18
“Do not remember the former things,
Nor consider the things of old.

2Co 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation;
old things have passed away;
behold, all things have become new.

Rev 21:4
“And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying.
There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

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[Biblewriter]

James, I think the Assyrian is likely Gog. I was listening to Irvin Baxter, You Tube, and his saying that Trump's peace plan is the 7 year covenant. I don't agree with him, but it might be that there will be some sort of peace plan entered into, the covenant with death and hell, that sets up Israel living in the peace and safety mode of Ezekiel 38 more definitively.

The Trump plan has been put off till February. But Macron of France said early this fall that if Trump doen't do something by the end of December, that he Macron would introduce his own peace plan. Macron needs to do something to divert away from the yellow vests uprising. We'll see.

Gog is "of the land of Magog." This is a very different place than Assyria.

These two different individuals attack two different locations in Israel at two different times, with two different results.

 

[Biblewriter]

This was in fact fulfilled:

The ancient assyrian king Sennacherib attacked and captured ALL the fortified cities of Judah, except Jerusalem.

2 kings 18:13 in the fourteenth year of the reign of Hezekiah, Sennacherib king of Assyria attacked and captured all the fortified cities of Judah.

Aiath, migron, michmash, geba, ramah, gibea, Laishah are all cities in Judah. Interestingly enough, the cities are listed in order of North to South, with Nob being the final city prior to Jerusalem.
Isaiah 10:28-32 Assyria has entered Aiath and passed through Migron, storing supplies at Michmash.
They have crossed at the ford: “We will spend the night at Geba.” Ramah trembles; Gibeah of Saul flees.Cry aloud, O daughter of Gallim! Listen, O Laishah! O wretched Anathoth! Madmenah flees;
the people of Gebim take refuge. Yet today they will halt at Nob, shaking a fist at the mount of the Daughter of Zion, at the hill of Jerusalem.


When King sennacherub attempted to coquer Jerusalem, AFTER conquering the cities of Judah, God sent an angel to kill many in the army, (might warriors, leaders, and commanders) of King sennecherub. Jerusalem was thus delivered from Assyria.
2 Chronicles 32:20-22 In response, King Hezekiah and the prophet Isaiah son of Amoz cried out to heaven in prayer, 21and the LORD sent an angel who annihilated every mighty warrior, leader, and commander in the camp of the king of Assyria. So he withdrew to his own land in disgrace. And when he entered the temple of his god, some of his own sons struck him down with the sword.

22So the LORD saved Hezekiah and the people of Jerusalem from the hand of King Sennacherib of Assyria and of all others, and He gave them rest on every side.

And so Isaiah 10:33-34 was fulfilled by God sending this angel to kill the mighty warriors, leaders, and commanders.
Isaiah 10:33-34 Behold, the Lord GOD of Hosts will lop off the branches with terrifying power. The tall trees will be cut down, the lofty ones will be felled. He will clear the forest thickets with an ax,and Lebanon will fall before the Mighty One

You need to do your homework. There are very few ancient events more absolutely known than Sennacherib's campaign against Hezekiah. It is not only recorded in the Bible, but on ancient monuments left by Sennacherib. We do not just have medieval copies of these monuments, but the actual monuments themselves, with the original inscriptions still plainly readable.

And Sennacherib most absolutely did not invade Judea along the path so precisely defined in Isaiah 10:28-32. The monuments he left specifically stated the cities he captures during his advance. And these cities were along an entirely different route.

 

[BABerean2]

uh, no, because I am not a dispensationalist. You say you are a non-dispensationalist, so you should update you screen name information and remove the newbie tag.

You should also add New Covenant theology, imo. You might prefer New Covenant Church.

Look at Keras screen- name, he puts information about himself, that he thinks is important for others to know about him.

It is not hard to do.

Are you not a member of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ?

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[Biblewriter]

This is where it becomes important to understand that the language of the OT was merely a picture of the true spiritual reality. This can summed up by Christ's statement to nicodemus.

John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

The old testament is the picture, not the reality of the true promises of God. Did jesus mean to be literally born again? No, thus we can apply understand like this to the OT. Paul does this multiple times throughout the NT.

Paul quotes Ezekiel 37 as being fulfilled. Noting the sanctuary of God is not a literal brick and mortar building but the spiritual body of Christ.
2 Corinthians 2:16 For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said:“I will live with them
and walk among them, and I will be their God,

Ezekiel 37:26-27 I will set My sanctuary among them forever. My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be My people.

The temple and city of Ezekiel 43-48 are the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21-22

1.) water flowing from temple
Ezekiel 47:1 Then the man brought me back to the entrance of the temple, and I saw water flowing from under the threshold of the temple toward the east (for the temple faced east). The water was coming down from under the south side of the temple, south of the altar.

Revelation 22:1 Then the angel showed me a river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

2.) fruit trees on either side of the river used for healing
Ezekiel 47:12 Along both banks of the river, fruit trees of all kinds will grow. Their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. Each month they will bear fruit, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will be used for food and their leaves for healing.

Revelation 22:2 On either side of the river stood a tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

3.) there are 12 gates with the names of the 12 tribes of Israel
These will be the exits of the city:

Beginning on the north side, which measures 4,500 cubits long, 31the gates of the city will be named after the tribes of Israel. On the north side there will be three gates: the gate of Reuben, the gate of Judah, and the gate of Levi.

32On the east side, which will be 4,500 cubits long, there will be three gates: the gate of Joseph, the gate of Benjamin, and the gate of Dan.

33On the south side, which will be 4,500 cubits long, there will be three gates: the gate of Simeon, the gate of Issachar, and the gate of Zebulun.

34And on the west side, which will be 4,500 cubits long, there will be three gates: the gate of Gad, the gate of Asher, and the gate of Naphtali.

Revelation 21:12-13 he city had a great and high wall with twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and twelve angels at the gates. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south, and three on the west.

And the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21-22 is the body of Christ

1.) It is the bride of Christ
Revelation 21:9-10 Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,

Ephesians 5:31-32 or this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”b This mystery is profound, but I am speaking about Christ and the church.

2.) the foundation is built on the apostles
Revelation 21:14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone.

3.) where God dwells with his people
revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will live with them. They will be His people,

Ephesians 2:22 And in Him you too are being built together into a dwelling place for God in His Spirit.


Thus the fulfillment of Ezekiel is not in a physical land allotment or brick and mortar temple but in the gathering to Christ and his kingdom, which is the true promise land

Isaiah 10:21 A remnant will return,a a remnant of Jacob,to the Mighty God.

2 corinthians 6:1-2 As God’s fellow workers, then, we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2For He says: “In the time of favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.”a Behold, now is the time of favor; now is the day of salvation!

Isaiah 49:8 “In the time of favor I will answer you, and in the day of salvation I will help you;
I will keep you and appoint you to be a covenant for the people, to restore the land,

1 corinthians 2:14 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually to discerned

Thank you for so very clearly demonstrating what what I said in the OP, that your system of interpretation REQUIRES an assumption that the very many explicitly stated prophecies of scripture simply do not mean what they so plainly say.