Canadian SC: Christian law school can't forbid students from gay sex

[GoldenBoy89]

But the context does.
The swastika for example.

Only besides YOUR point, which is not an answer to MY question you replied to.

Your question of which God it was that was "with them" has been answered. Going by what a majority of the German public believed at the time, it was some form of the Christian God.

Whether these people actually lived up to that God's standards (by your interpretation, mind you) is besides the point of which God they believed was on their side.

Who doesn't is not covered by the slogan in that case.

The word "We" would contradict this. That means all of us.

And an organisation (or person) can say or print such things even while it's not true too, of course.

Of course.

 

[Sparagmos]

You're full of denial.
As if i'm making stuff up here.

You can’t back up your claim. You are either making it up
Or believing a conspiracy theory you’ve heard that you haven’t verified. I am close to a number of leaders in the movement for trans equality in my city. They would NEVER try to manipulate a child regarding their gender, and I’ve never seen anyone of any age pressured to get transition surgery. Also, the surgery is very expensive and almost never covered by insurance. It is considered a huge decision and undertaking and if anything, trans people are required my medical professionals to live as a trans person for quite a while, and have a psychological evaluation before having the surgery.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

I know Christians who are in their second, third and fourth marriages. If anyone is destroying the sanctity of a tradtional biblical marriage between one woman and one man, it's Christians like that.

Which simply attempts to deal with the condemnation of homosexual relations by pointing out that immorality and hypocrisy is prevalent in the Christian camp, but which does not justify any sin. And homosexual relations is a more radical sin, as it contrary to first and most basic law given to man as regards his relationship with others. In which, as the Lord Jesus personally specified,

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (Matthew 19:4-6)

Conversely, what God hath (sexually) placed asunder, let not man join together.

See Homosexual relations versus the Bible.html (http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Homosex_versus_the_Bible.html) (extensive, by God's grace)

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Beware of the No True Scotsman fallacy when discussing the sins and hypocrisy of some Christians because we will always hear, "They aren't 'real Christians'!" It's a very convenient cop-out.

Wrong again. Beware of the fallacy of charging the No True Scotsman fallacy, for that does not apply when there is a standard definition of what a True Scotsman is or act like, versus a True Scotsman" being "without reference to any specific objective rule." - No true Scotsman - Wikipedia

 

[PeaceByJesus]

That is SO not the definition of fascism. Religion isn’t an excuse to break the law. Discrimination is against the law.

By your standard then of civil law being supreme, when discrimination was the law then Religion was not an excuse to break the law.

 

[Sparagmos]

By your standard then of civil law being supreme, when discrimination was the law then Religion was not an excuse to break the law.

I believe in civil disobedience and, to the extent that I am not taking a big risk, do not follow laws I feel are unjust. But some religious people use their religion as an excuse for unjust discrimination.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Oh I am not missing anything from that passage; except the statement that THIS ACTION is the reason we are destroying Sodom.

Yes what those men wanted to do was vile. But it was not just the sexual side of the matter.

They were not being hospitable to strangers, and they were seeking to violate Lot's protection over them. Those 2 issues tie into the Ezekiel passage. And it stands in sharp contrast to how Abraham received them only 24 hours earlier.

I know you want it to be ONLY about homosexuality, but it is not as simple as that. God takes inhospitality very seriously.

No, the intent of homosexual rape (see parallel story in Judges 19) was not the only sin, but it was the capital culmination of progressive degradation, like as described in Romans 1 .

 

[PeaceByJesus]

That's not at all the point here. If you decide to attend a CHRISTIAN school, you cannot feign ignorance at being expected to uphold Christian moral values....i.e. you agree that you won't be fornicating there.

Gender irrespective.

Thanks. Why or how can this even be a matter of debate, any more than the right itself for CF to make forum rules is?

 

[Sparagmos]

Thanks. Why or how can this even be a matter of debate, any more than the right itself for CF to make forum rules is?

Because they are accredited by the government and sexual orientation is a protected status. CF doesn’t ban people who admit to having gay sex.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

There where? In Genesis? In Ezekiel?

If homosexuality was why God destroyed Sodom, why did He list other sins and not that one in Ezekiel?

While pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness are listed, being taken away come after abomination: "And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good." (Ezekiel 16:50)

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jude 7)

 

[PeaceByJesus]

What kind of God would delude a person in order to condemn them? This turns God into a monster.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)
I understand that this is a charge of blind atheists, but do you notice that this blindness is itself a judgment upon the wicked because (as Romans 1 details) such sinned against the light they had,
and thus would not repent and believe the truth, but not only practices unrighteousness, but had pleasure in it?

There are some posters here, who after longsuffering attempts to reason with them, remain recalcitrant in their love for their error, and thus sometimes I leave them to their own delusion.

Man is justly condemned for rejecting the light they already have, which in essence is rejecting the Lord Jesus, whom they will never come to unless the give in to conscience, and God is not obligate to give more grace.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Marriage is defined by law in Canada.

And Germany once defined Jews as subhuman.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

And in the OT, God never said Sodom et al were destroyed for immorality. That was added in the NT.

And which provides interpretive revelation of the OT.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Would this not apply to all Christian institutions with moral standards or covenants expected of their students beyond law? The medical field perhaps? Either way this is unfair to the students currently studying there, including the non-existent gay students at this institution.

Harvard College Lawes of 1642
[from New England's First Fruits; emp. mine]

1. When any Schollar is able to Read Tully or such like classicall Latine Author ex tempore, and make and speake true Latin in verse and prose suo (ut aiunt) Marte, and decline perfectly the paradigmes of Nounes and verbes in the Greeke tongue, then may hee bee admitted into the College, nor shall any claime admission before such qualifications. [like modern SAT scores, such a requirement indicated the level of education one had received, and achieved. This served practical purposes of course, as copies of Scripture and other classics were also still mostly in Greek.]

2. Every one shall consider the mayne End of his life and studyes, to know God and Jesus Christ which is Eternall life. Joh. 17.3. [Today, personal as well as intellectual ignorance of the Biblical Christ abounds among Harvard students.]

3. Seeing the Lord giveth wisdome, every one shall seriously by prayer in secret, seeke wisdome of him. prov. 2.2,3 etc. [Instead, Harvard today militates against such Biblical wisdom , and peity. Today, if any activity is done "in secret," it is fornication (1 out 4 women have an STD).

4. Every one shall so exercise himselfe in reading the Scriptures twice a day that they bee ready to give an account of their proficiency therein, both in theoreticall observations of Language and Logicke, and in practicall and spirituall truthes as their tutor shall require according to their severall abilities respectively, seeing the Entrance of the word giveth light etc. psal. 119, 130. [The goal here was to produce "able ministers of the New Testament" (2Cor. 3:6), "rightly dividing the word of truth" (2Tim. 2:15). Today, the Bible is almost wholly abandoned as the literal and authoritative Word of God, and the very deceptions Harvard was founded to prevent abound therein!]



5. In the publicke Church assembly they shall carefully shunne all gestures that shew any contempt or neglect of Gods ordinances and bee ready to give an account to their tutors of their profiting and to use the helpes of Storing themselves with knowledge, as their tutours shall direct them, and all Sophisters and Bachellors (until themselves make common place) shall publiquely repeate Sermons in the Hall whenver they are called forth. [Rather than this being the goal of Harvard, the inculcation of unBibical worldviews is fostered, and rare is the professor who would dare declare the Biblical gospel and morality, or the student who could or would do likewise.]

6. they shall eschew all prophanation of Gods holy name, attributes, word, ordinances, and times of worship, and study with Reverence and love carefully to reteine God and his truth in their minds. [This is of little to no concern in Harvard today, rather the "faith once delivered" (Jude v.3) is little esteemed, and if one comes into Harvard with such faith, he will be sorely challanged to keep it! Sports, college parties, etc., not Bible studies, are what students mostly flock to.]

7. they shall honour as their parents, Magistrates, Elders, tutours and aged persons, by beeing silent in their presence (except they bee called on to answer) not gainesaying shewing all those laudable expressions of honour and Reverence in their presence, that are in uses as bowing before them standing uncovered or the like. [Rather than promoting reverence toward authority, Harvard has joined the bulk of other "Intititutions of Higher Learning" in fostering rebellion toward those who represent just authority, under the guise of protesting injustice, and in such protests reveal their own dearth of wisdom which usually comes with age.

8. they shall be slow to speake, and eschew not onely oathes, Lies, and uncertaine Rumours, but likewise all idle, foolish, bitter scoffing, frothy wanton words and offensive gestures. [Today, if one would dare uphold Bible truth and morality at Harvard, such as reproves the like of irreverend Peter Gomes, he/she will see quickly how the above law has been abandonded].

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[Sparagmos]

And Germany once defined Jews as subhuman.

That’s the very type of discrimination that Canadian law is attempting to protect people from. SMH.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Increasingly I believe discrimination against LGBTQ will be treated the same as racial discrimination. As a Christian, I agree.

As a Christian, in accordance with Scripture, I disagree. Homosexual relations versus the Bible.html (http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Homosex_versus_the_Bible.html) You might as well change Christ with discrimination (and dare not spin His words):

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (Matthew 19:4-6)

Do you support defining marriage as including same-sex couples? And where does it stop?

 

[PeaceByJesus]

I think people seem to have a hard time understanding what "force" actually means with regards to various lifestyles.

Example:
School telling students they're forbidden from engaging in consensual activities with their own bodies (not harming anyone else or violating their rights) is an example of forcing convictions on someone else.

Wanting to be able to do what makes you happy provided that you don't violate anyone's rights, and vehemently rejecting the notion of other people telling you that you're not allowed because "I don't like to see that" isn't force, that's fighting for the right to own one's self.

Your premise that that such is not harming anyone else is at best debatable, and actually wrong, and what you mean is you want to disallow required assent to any any moral codes that believes do not negatively affect anyone else.

And or you disagree with any group making rules for that group, from glee clubs to sports teams.

And besides the spiritual costs, what if the consensual practice of taking part in the Lord's supper was shown to be responsible (2016) for 83% of HIV cases among men (despite only representing approximately 4% of the male population).

After about 40 years of trying to tame the beast.

 

[Sparagmos]

Your premise that that such is not harming anyone else is at best debatable, and actually wrong, and what you mean is you want to disallow required assent to any any moral codes that believes do not negatively affect anyone else.

And or you disagree with any group making rules for that group, from glee clubs to sports teams.

And besides the spiritual costs, what if the consensual practice of taking part in the Lord's supper was shown to be responsible (2016) for 83% of HIV cases among men (despite only representing approximately 4% of the male population).

History shows that bigots will always use religion to defend discrimination. You OK with Muslims being excused from laws due to their version of morality too? What about satanist?

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Promoting equality of treatment. Not trying to force straight people to have gay sex.

Equality of treatment unless you express disagreement with MSM.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

So called mental health workers.
It happens.
They may have gotten my niece into it too...
She's super insecure and (or because of) autism.
I haven't had any recent updates on her situation though, but she has assumed a boy's name now...
Poor kid..

As posted, one confession:

after 25 years of claiming she was not indoctrinating anyone with pro homosexual beliefs, one activist honestly admitted to this being a lie. Canadian gay activist S. Bear Bergman, a female who identifies as a transgender male, stated, "All that time I said I wasn't indoctrinating anyone with my beliefs about gay and lesbian and bi and trans and queer people? That was a lie.” Bergman recounted that she was instructed as a young gay activist to tell concerned parents that she was “just providing an alternate viewpoint” when accused of engaging in “indoctrination and recruiting,” and to use “soft” language when speaking about homosexuality. In her article on the notoriously liberal web site, the Huffington Post, he went on to candidly confess that this indoctrination, "is absolutely my goal. I want to make your children like people like me and my family, even if that goes against the way you have interpreted the teachings of your religion." Bergman fantasized that in an ideal world he would have been "ushered into the world of queerness with care and tenderness by experienced homos" (akin to "camp counselors"), "and issued my leather jacket and my protest pins, my safer sex supplies..."

Bergman expressed that his goal was that of portraying to "impressionable young minds" the idea that "queers and transfolk are just as fine and lovely a kind of human as any other kind," and stated that he did not like the idea of sending her kid to schools where any kid could share with him their ideas about homosexuals. Thus Bergman, who believes that "books a kid hears at bedtime affect their sleep and also their dreams," is finalizing a series of children's books that all feature lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or queer kids or families, with the goal that the young readers come to believe that people like him and his family are "absolutely great," that "lesbian, gay, bi, queer, and trans people -- that we exist, that we're perfectly fine and often really excellent." Bergman then concludes, "If that makes me an indoctrinator, I accept it. Let me be honest -- I am not even a little bit sorry."[72]

I don't know that.

Canada: Federal Prisons Ordered to Pay for Sex Changes