In other news, the "world orthodox" continue to embrace the Vatican.

[Barney2.0]

that's not how it happened. it was an internal communion issue since neither side broke from the Church.

It wasn’t an internal communion issue because they both still had enough formal relations to organize a council together.

 

[Barney2.0]

I'm having trouble following what is being argued here. Of course there was a formal break in communion between Alexandria and Antioch. That's what the formula of reunion was all about. And what is all this stuff about the Roman Pope only preventing "internal communion issues", not schism? Isn't it an 'internal communion issue' when two churches within the same communion -- say, Alexandria and Antioch -- break communion?

I’m not arguing against the forms, break in communion only that the fact that Antioch and Alexandria still had formal relations going on despite the problem with Saint Cyril and Nestorius going on. By internal communion issues I mean having a Church canonically in communion, yet somehow in schism at the same time. Only part of the See of Antioch left, it’s not like the whole See just became the Nestorian Church of the East, a while after Ephesus the Nestorians formed their own Church and communion was broken with the rest of the Church due to the decisions taken against Nestorius at Ephesus.

 

[Barney2.0]

Deleted.

 

[ArmyMatt]

The fact that Eastern Orthodox also hold to the same list of Popes as Catholics do up until the schism is the evidence.

no it's not. that isn't evidence for cardinals at all.

 

[ArmyMatt]

The Nestorians broke communion with the Churcn ever since Ephesus, forming the Church of the East. Communion was still happening between the Churches until after Ephesus otherwise no council would have been able to be organized.

they broke with the whole Church. Antioch and Alexandria broke with each other but not the whole Church.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It wasn’t an internal communion issue because they both still had enough formal relations to organize a council together.

yeah it was an internal communion issue because they couldn't commune at the same Chalice. and they didn't organize the council. Alexandria did and Antioch was late.

 

[Barney2.0]

no it's not. that isn't evidence for cardinals at all.

I didn’t say they were Cardinals.

 

[Barney2.0]

they broke with the whole Church. Antioch and Alexandria broke with each other but not the whole Church.

When?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I didn’t say they were Cardinals.

yeah you did. you were quoted as saying that.

 

[ArmyMatt]

When?

5th century

 

[Barney2.0]

5th century

Not much to work with.

 

[Barney2.0]

yeah you did. you were quoted as saying that.

I said it might have been the origin to the office of Cardinal or maybe they were just simple Bishops appointed by the Pope himself.

 

[Barney2.0]

yeah it was an internal communion issue because they couldn't commune at the same Chalice. and they didn't organize the council. Alexandria did and Antioch was late.

Could you give me an event in which the following happened?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Not much to work with.

the Nestorian controversy. Antioch sided with Nestorius although they weren't as extreme. this was when Antioch and Alexandria broke communion with each other but not everyone else.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I said it might have been the origin to the office of Cardinal or maybe they were just simple Bishops appointed by the Pope himself.

no, that wasn't what you said.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Could you give me an event in which the following happened?

yes, the Nestorian controversy. Antioch and Alexandria excommunicated each other. the Antiochians held a council after Ephesus which deposed St Cyril and his supporters. you don't commune people you claim are deposed.

 

[Barney2.0]

no, that wasn't what you said.

As you say.

 

[Barney2.0]

the Nestorian controversy. Antioch sided with Nestorius although they weren't as extreme. this was when Antioch and Alexandria broke communion with each other but not everyone else.

Do you have an exact source for this?

 

[Barney2.0]

yes, the Nestorian controversy. Antioch and Alexandria excommunicated each other. the Antiochians held a council after Ephesus which deposed St Cyril and his supporters. you don't commune people you claim are deposed.

I mean a source.

 

[ArmyMatt]

As you say.

it wasn't, prodromos quoted you.